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Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

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Gabriel426 said:
If we are going retool, just go all in in retooling instead of a half a** job with just Willie. Trading Willie is not enough. Trade both Willie and MM and just rebuild the team with more a cycling game instead of just speed speed and speed.
By trading both Willie and Marner, it allows us to actually spend money on a real goalie instead of on someone who we hope will break out. It also gives us flexibility when it comes to resigning AM.
Bc just moving Willie won’t do much and knowing Dubas and Keefe it will be another 1st round exit and by next year it will be well need to trade MM now and hope AM resigns….
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How easy do you think it is to find Willy and Marner type of players ... ?
 
Dreakmur said:
That's the most important part. The rest sure as hell doesn't drop him out of the top-60 centres.
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I can see why you think that's the most important, as it's the only bit that even vaguely supports your opinion, but no.
 
As Tampa is now up 3-0 on Florida can we maybe admit that while losing in the first round sucks, we lost because it was Tampa.

They said we were the hardest match, but people still want to blow it up.
 
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leaffaninvancouver said:
As Tampa is now up 3-0 on Florida can we maybe admit that while losing in the first round sucks, we lost because it was Tampa.

They said we were the hardest match, but people still want to blow it up.
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If Tampa played their best hockey and we lost, that's one thing. They didn't play well, and we still couldn't beat them.
 
Dreakmur said:
If Tampa played their best hockey and we lost, that's one thing. They didn't play well, and we still couldn't beat them.
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i must agree with this.
I was a bit stunned at how bad they were and that includes Vasi.

Then after finding out their top player was badly sick and at half speed,their 2nd best player not fully healthy and a couple of others fighting a bug it made more sense to what I was watching.

Knowing we had these advantages as well as home ice and still could not beat them is really sad.
 
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Gabriel426 said:
Why do you think TB didn’t play their best hockey?
Maybe it was the Leafs who made them look ordinary and made Vas looked human for 6 of the 7 games.
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They did get to the net a bit more, and that led to some more play-off style goals. You could clearly tell when Tampa wanted to turn it up. It seemed almost like they were conserving energy.
 
Gabriel426 said:
Extremely tough and that’s why I don’t think trading them will actually improve the team.
Trading JT will probably improve the team.
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I agree - I don't think they should trade away the core either. If they could trade JT they would but it's almost impossible (even if he didn't have a NMC - teams don't often trade their captains halfway through the deals).

Plus JT finally came around in the latter half of the playoffs.
 
leaffaninvancouver said:
Or they looked like they didn’t play well because were also a good team. They didn’t forget how to stop pucks, we’re just a very good offensive team.
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That looks different. You can make guys look bad by pressuring them into mistakes, but that didn't really happen. You can make creative offensive players look bad by taking away all the options, but that didn't happen either.

Kucherov coasting around, making blind passes and appearing to be generally disinterested isn't something Toronto did to him,
 
Dreakmur said:
They did get to the net a bit more, and that led to some more play-off style goals. You could clearly tell when Tampa wanted to turn it up. It seemed almost like they were conserving energy.
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Honestly, TB played really well in Game 4, but I think that had more to do with Leafs playing bad too.
In the 3rd period of Game 6, if it werent for the refs, they were lifeless till that 5 on 3 PP. Part of the reason was bc the Leafs were playing a semi-trap style of game. In Game 7, it was a very evenly match game. I give credits for TB for collapsing in front of the net and blocking shots but they didn't outplay the Leafs like they are doing Vs the Panthers now.

Dreakmur said:
That looks different. You can make guys look bad by pressuring them into mistakes, but that didn't really happen. You can make creative offensive players look bad by taking away all the options, but that didn't happen either.

Kucherov coasting around, making blind passes and appearing to be generally disinterested isn't something Toronto did to him,
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Maybe the way the Leafs played against him limited him with options. I won't say Kuch was coasting b/c he seemed pretty alive whenever he had the puck in the Ozone.
 
WildWolfdog said:
I agree - I don't think they should trade away the core either. If they could trade JT they would but it's almost impossible (even if he didn't have a NMC - teams don't often trade their captains halfway through the deals).

Plus JT finally came around in the latter half of the playoffs.
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Even if it is tough, if there is a chance to trade JT and it is a solid hockey trade, you have to do it. Didn't Masai replaced Casey, who just won Coach of the Year with a rookie Nurse, and didn't he trade away DD when the 2nd year of the deal didn't even kick in? These MGT are paid to make the tough decisions for the goal of the team.
 
Gabriel426 said:
Even if it is tough, if there is a chance to trade JT and it is a solid hockey trade, you have to do it. Didn't Masai replaced Casey, who just won Coach of the Year with a rookie Nurse, and didn't he trade away DD when the 2nd year of the deal didn't even kick in? These MGT are paid to make the tough decisions for the goal of the team.
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John Tavares has a full no movement clause.

They can't do anything unless he agrees - that wasn't the case with Casey or Derozan, etc.
 
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Dreakmur said:
They did get to the net a bit more, and that led to some more play-off style goals. You could clearly tell when Tampa wanted to turn it up. It seemed almost like they were conserving energy.
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On the power play.
Outside of the pp, their best players were mere passengers for the 7 game series.
At even strength, while our core (4 players) had 21 points, Tampa's had 9.

In fact, all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Tavares, and Mikheyev outscored their most productive core player at even strength (Kucherov and Hedman with 3 points each).

There was no flipping the switch for Tampa Bay.
They were utterly dominated at even strength.

Matthews led the series in goals, points, hits and shots. That's what playoff hockey is all about, your best offensive player doing things he normally doesn't do.

Marner played, over the course of 7 games, nearly 23 minutes on the penalty kill. That's f***ing ridiculous.

Also ridiculous is that Matthews and Marner played 35 minutes on the power play over the course of 7 games.
Even worse, is that Kucherov, Stamkos and Hedman played even more on the power play.

Comparing it to the regular season, and the jump for Matthews and Marner is from 3:06 mins/game on the pp to right around 5:00 mins/game in the playoffs.
Whereas Kucherov and Stamkos went from 3:45 mins/game to 5:30 mins/game.
 
Dreakmur said:
If Tampa played their best hockey and we lost, that's one thing. They didn't play well, and we still couldn't beat them.
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I think the more likely explanation is both teams canceled each other out in many matchups. Which Florida is simply unable to match. Leafs look better and better the worse the Panthers look.
 
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pcruz said:
On the power play.
Outside of the pp, their best players were mere passengers for the 7 game series.
At even strength, while our core (4 players) had 21 points, Tampa's had 9.

In fact, all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Tavares, and Mikheyev outscored their most productive core player at even strength (Kucherov and Hedman with 3 points each).

There was no flipping the switch for Tampa Bay.
They were utterly dominated at even strength.

Matthews led the series in goals, points, hits and shots. That's what playoff hockey is all about, your best offensive player doing things he normally doesn't do.

Marner played, over the course of 7 games, nearly 23 minutes on the penalty kill. That's f***ing ridiculous.

Also ridiculous is that Matthews and Marner played 35 minutes on the power play over the course of 7 games.
Even worse, is that Kucherov, Stamkos and Hedman played even more on the power play.

Comparing it to the regular season, and the jump for Matthews and Marner is from 3:06 mins/game on the pp to right around 5:00 mins/game in the playoffs.
Whereas Kucherov and Stamkos went from 3:45 mins/game to 5:30 mins/game.
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As I said, it seemed like they were conserving energy.
 
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