Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[SeaOfBlue]

Tavares works better with 2 guys who can help shrink the ice down to a hash marks and below game where skating in open ice or straight line speed is completely eliminated from the play. The problem seems to be all the other forward lines and players want to play the other speed, skill style.

Not sure that is the right way to put it. I think you are right about the hash marks and below being where Tavares does his best work. I don't think that means that we need to eliminate open ice/speed from the game when he is on the ice.

I almost feel like we need another guy like Galchenyuk. He was able to play off of Tavares down low, but was also able to rotate low to high like Nylander could. Nice shot and was solid with the puck on his stick but also didn't constantly need it on his stick either. Was effective both on the rush and on the cycle. If we could just get a guy with higher IQ and more consistency, Galchenyuk would probably be the perfect fit.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don't mind their playing him with the right kind of players to optimize his ability. That's just good coaching.

What I object to is their still trying to pretend he's a 2C, and largely doing that because they grossly overpaid for a player who started to fade badly in the third year of a seven year contract (the NMC is just icing on the dirt cake).

He's still pretty good on the PP where he can win faceoffs and then stand in the slot but beyond that he's a 3C or 3W ( for 11M - ).

Who are the 62 centres better than Tavares? He's like 15th among centres in scoring....

 

[Trapper]

They can thank Crosby being injured for their pass to they 2nd. round.

Leafs were gifted Point out of game 7 and Kucherov was pretty much sick and a no show. Too bad we’re never thankful. We’ve got excuse game though.

 

[Racer88]

I don't mind their playing him with the right kind of players to optimize his ability. That's just good coaching.

What I object to is their still trying to pretend he's a 2C, and largely doing that because they grossly overpaid for a player who started to fade badly in the third year of a seven year contract (the NMC is just icing on the dirt cake).

He's still pretty good on the PP where he can win faceoffs and then stand in the slot but beyond that he's a 3C or 3W ( for 11M - ).

Agreed 100%

 

[Captain Crunch]

They're both fine players, but they're part of the too soft problem we have. We need a new mix.

As long as they were good on the PK. Also, Mikeyev seemed to have developed a decent scoring touch.

 

[Mess]

This core 4 (Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly) is 0-6 and counting and the only 4 players standing from 2018 record setting team to today's roster,

How many more tries are needed and tinkering around the edges required, when the entire roster expect those 4 has turned over and the current GM are the only constants in the failure? .

BEFORE

Toronto Maple Leafs 2017-18 roster and statistics
Head Coach: Mike Babcock (49-26-0-7) = 105 points
Result: Lost in round 1 (Boston in 7)

#	Player Name	Pos.	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	Age
16​	Mitch Marner	R	82​	22​	47​	69​	26​	-1​	20​
34​	Auston Matthews	C	62​	34​	29​	63​	12​	25​	19​
29​	William Nylander	R	82​	20​	41​	61​	10​	20​	21​
43​	Nazem Kadri	C	80​	32​	23​	55​	42​	2​	26​
25​	James Van Riemsdyk	L	81​	36​	18​	54​	30​	1​	28​
44​	Morgan Rielly	D	76​	6​	46​	52​	14​	-4​	23​
51​	Jake Gardiner	D	82​	5​	47​	52​	32​	9​	27​
12​	Patrick Marleau	C	82​	27​	20​	47​	16​	1​	37​
42​	Tyler Bozak	C	81​	11​	32​	43​	28​	6​	31​
11​	Zach Hyman	L	82​	15​	25​	40​	37​	22​	25​
28​	Connor Brown	R	82​	14​	14​	28​	18​	0​	23​
2​	Ron Hainsey	D	80​	4​	19​	23​	20​	12​	36​
47​	Leo Komarov	R	74​	7​	12​	19​	31​	0​	30​
22​	Nikita Zaitsev	D	60​	5​	8​	13​	31​	8​	25​
23​	Travis Dermott	D	37​	1​	12​	13​	8​	16​	20​
20​	Dominic Moore	C	50​	6​	6​	12​	16​	3​	37​
8​	Connor Carrick	D	47​	4​	8​	12​	27​	5​	23​
15​	Matt Martin	L	50​	3​	9​	12​	50​	0​	28​
46​	Roman Polak	D	54​	2​	10​	12​	46​	5​	31​
55​	Andreas Borgman	D	48​	3​	8​	11​	28​	4​	22​
24​	Kasperi Kapanen	R	38​	7​	2​	9​	4​	-1​	21​
32​	Joshua Leivo	L	16​	1​	3​	4​	6​	0​	24​
18​	Andreas Johnsson	L	9​	2​	1​	3​	0​	-2​	22​
19​	Tomas Plekanec	C	17​	0​	2​	2​	6​	-2​	34​
33​	Frederik Gauthier	C	9​	1​	0​	1​	0​	-4​	22​
48​	Calle Rosen	D	4​	0​	1​	1​	4​	-3​	23​
35​	Curtis McElhinney	G	18​	0​	1​	1​	0​	0​	34​
31​	Frederik Andersen	G	66​	0​	1​	1​	2​	0​	27​
30​	Calvin Pickard	G	1​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	25​
52​	Martin Marincin	D	2​	0​	0​	0​	2​	-2​	25​
26​	Nikita Soshnikov	R	3​	0​	0​	0​	0​	-2​	23​
23​	Eric Fehr	C	4​	0​	0​	0​	2​	-1​	31​

AFTER

Toronto Maple Leafs 2021-22 roster and statistics
Head Coach: Sheldon Keefe (54-21-0-7) = 115 points
Result: Lost in round 1 (Tampa Bay in 7)

#	Player Name	Pos.	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	Age
34​	Auston Matthews	C	73​	60​	46​	106​	18​	20​	23​
16​	Mitch Marner	R	72​	35​	62​	97​	16​	23​	24​
88​	William Nylander	R	81​	34​	46​	80​	16​	-9​	25​
91​	John Tavares	C	79​	27​	49​	76​	32​	-8​	30​
44​	Morgan Rielly	D	82​	10​	58​	68​	40​	16​	27​
58​	Michael Bunting	L	79​	23​	40​	63​	80​	27​	25​
15​	Alexander Kerfoot	C	82​	13​	38​	51​	20​	19​	27​
47​	Pierre Engvall	L	78​	15​	20​	35​	30​	13​	25​
65​	Ilya Mikheyev	R	53​	21​	11​	32​	26​	16​	26​
78​	T.J. Brodie	D	82​	4​	24​	28​	34​	20​	31​
25​	Ondrej Kase	R	50​	14​	13​	27​	14​	4​	25​
64​	David Kampf	C	82​	11​	15​	26​	20​	12​	26​
19​	Jason Spezza	C	71​	12​	13​	25​	26​	-3​	38​
37​	Timothy Liljegren	D	61​	5​	18​	23​	14​	15​	22​
3​	Justin Holl	D	69​	3​	20​	23​	41​	14​	29​
38​	Rasmus Sandin	D	51​	5​	11​	16​	4​	9​	21​
24​	Wayne Simmonds	R	72​	5​	11​	16​	96​	-7​	33​
8​	Jake Muzzin	D	47​	3​	11​	14​	16​	-6​	32​
55​	Mark Giordano 1	D	20​	2​	10​	12​	10​	12​	37​
20​	Nick Ritchie 2	L	33​	2​	7​	9​	23​	-6​	25​
46​	Ilya Lyubushkin 3	D	31​	2​	4​	6​	25​	4​	27​
23​	Travis Dermott 4	D	43​	1​	4​	5​	14​	4​	24​
11​	Colin Blackwell 1	C	19​	2​	1​	3​	10​	-1​	28​
43​	Kyle Clifford 5	L	23​	1​	2​	3​	31​	-4​	30​
48​	Carl Dahlstrom	D	3​	0​	2​	2​	2​	2​	26​
26​	Nick Abruzzese	C	9​	1​	0​	1​	2​	-1​	22​
89​	Nick Robertson	L	10​	1​	0​	1​	4​	-4​	19​
46​	Alex Steeves	C	3​	0​	1​	1​	0​	-1​	21​
36​	Jack Campbell	G	49​	0​	1​	1​	0​	0​	29​
30​	Michael Hutchinson	G	2​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	31​
94​	Kirill Semyonov	C	3​	0​	0​	0​	0​	-2​	26​
60​	Joseph Woll	G	4​	0​	0​	0​	2​	0​	23​
28​	Joey Anderson	R	5​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	23​
50​	Erik Kallgren	G	14​	0​	0​	0​	2​	0​	24​
35​	Petr Mrazek	G	20​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	29​

Only constants in BOLD ...

 

[notDatsyuk]

Who are the 62 centres better than Tavares? He's like 15th among centres in scoring....

27th in goals, 18th in points. At 5-on-5, he's 31st in goals and 50th in primary assists (better in secondary assists, where his teammates do most of the work). On the PP he's 19th in goals and 13th in assists, while being only 17th in ice time, which is why I think he's still good there.

If goals were the only consideration, he's not too bad, but he's also 241st in +/-, just among centres, and he's slowing down.

 

[Dreakmur]

27th in goals, 18th in points. At 5-on-5, he's 31st in goals and 50th in primary assists (better in secondary assists, where his teammates do most of the work). On the PP he's 19th in goals and 13th in assists, while being only 17th in ice time, which is why I think he's still good thete.

If goals were the only consideration, he's not too bad, but he's also 241st in +/-, just among centres, and he's slowing down.

So he's closer to a #1 than he is to a #3....

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I mean I wouldn’t mind, I think he would be perfect for the Leafs. But management just extended him and considers him the heartbeat of the team.

Speaking of Heartbeat of the team. Who is ours? The fact that a name doesn't just pop in right away is not a good sign. You could say AM...or MM...but in reality who is the emotional leader on this team besides 38yr Spezza?

 

[Gallagbi]

Speaking of Heartbeat of the team. Who is ours? The fact that a name doesn't just pop in right away is not a good sign. You could say AM...or MM...but in reality who is the emotional leader on this team besides 38yr Spezza?

Rielly

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Rielly

Could be....Moe usually ups his game in the post season quite a bit. He didn't as much this year and I am guess Boosh had something to do with it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

So he's closer to a #1 than he is to a #3....

No.

 

[Dreakmur]

No.

The stats you posted says he is...

 

[notDatsyuk]

The stats you posted says he is...

No they don't.

 

[Dreakmur]

No they don't.

18th in point is average 1C production.

 

[pcruz]

Here is how I'd like this team to look like this coming season.

A few signings, but none of them need be bank-busters.

There are lots of rumours that Toronto is kicking tires on Gibson, so I wonder if Dubas could package Mrazek (a serviceable goalie) with Kerfoot and a sweetener for Gibson.

 

[Dreakmur]

Here is how I'd like this team to look like this coming season.

A few signings, but none of them need be bank-busters.

There are lots of rumours that Toronto is kicking tires on Gibson, so I wonder if Dubas could package Mrazek (a serviceable goalie) with Kerfoot and a sweetener for Gibson.

View attachment 550609

Even if you could get Gibson for free, that team is worse than last year….

 

[pcruz]

Even if you could get Gibson for free, that team is worse than last year….

I disagree.

I'm not sure that Kerfoot, Mikheyev and Lyubushkin are significantly better right now, or going forward, than:

Giordano, Robertson, and Abruzzese.


Especially if you trade the below-average goaltending that we got from Campbell and Mrazek for the season compared to a solid goalie in Gibson who played behind a terrible team in Anaheim.

That's a loss of roughly 80 points, which could be more than made up with that trio.
The penalty kill is the facet of the team we would lose most in, but that's only in an offensive manner.

Campbell was fantastic for the first 2 months and good to end the season, be he was almost unplayable from December until late March.

 

[Tuna99]

Sheldon Keefe coached Tony D’Angelo in junior and Kyle Dubas traded to him at the deadline.

RD that Toronto needs - makes a nice fit

 

[pcruz]

Sheldon Keefe coached Tony D’Angelo in junior and Kyle Dubas traded to him at the deadline.

RD that Toronto needs - makes a nice fit

Doesn't he have a ton of baggage though?

 

[Dreakmur]

I disagree.

I'm not sure that Kerfoot, Mikheyev and Lyubushkin are significantly better right now, or going forward, than:

Giordano, Robertson, and Abruzzese.

Kerfoot and Mikheyev are far better than Robertson and Abruzzese, who shouldn't even be in the league yet.

Especially if you trade the below-average goaltending that we got from Campbell and Mrazek for the season compared to a solid goalie in Gibson who played behind a terrible team in Anaheim.

Gibson is an excellent goalie, which is why you aren't getting him for spare parts.

That's the only upgrade on a roster full of downgrades. Spezza and Simmonds will be useless. Blackwell is a warm body. It's a bad roster, especially in the bottom 6.

 

[Tuna99]

Doesn't he have a ton of baggage though?

I don’t really know what the problem was but he’s be the best Dman in Toronto

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Only retool option that’s going to make any difference is somehow getting a legit starting goalie. Otherwise expect another first round chokejob running Campbell and Mrazek again.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Hyman > kadri > Tavares > Dubas

 

[notDatsyuk]

18th in point is average 1C production.

Is that all you managed to read of what I wrote?