Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[keonsbitterness]

one "more" run? lol. 6 isnt enough?

if the leafs didnt crap the bed so much against the bottom teams they wouldve finished 1st playing a lesser opponent.

I think we've established by now that the opponent being greater or lesser doesn't really matter. The problem lies within.

 

[Dreakmur]

we.... weren't too soft and easy t play against.
Just ask Tampa who said this was their hardest series they had in ages.

but sure. we were soft. i guess.

We absolutely were too soft and easy to play against. Tampa didn't even have to come close to their best hockey to beat us.

The teams not handcuffed by any means, there’s lots of movable salary. Mrazek Campbell Holl muzzin kerfoot Kase mikheyev represent 20m in cap, just about 25% you have two internal replacements for muz and Holl with sandin and liljegren, you expect one marlie forward to grab a spot. You take those savings and you get an impact goalie and some middle 6 weight.

No one’s happy with what’s transpired it’s just not worth yelling and screaming about David Ayer’s and penguin teams missing sid, or even the streak. None of that does any good towards pushing this process farther across the line.
I even think elements of the development and the coaching staff and even the coach himself should be examined and looked at and obviously any deal that makes the team better you look at doing, but I’ve yet to hear a legit trade that “shakes it up” and makes the team more competitive next season. There’s no Kawhi trade out there for the leafs.

You have to learn from what went wrong and make changes. Tavares needs linemates to compliment his skillset. Our bottom 6 needs to be bigger and meaner. Our blueline needs to be better, bigger, and meaner. Our goaltending needs to be more reliable. We need more structure and accountability from the coach.

 

[Nylanderthal]

We absolutely were too soft and easy to play against. Tampa didn't even have to come close to their best hockey to beat us.



You have to learn from what went wrong and make changes. Tavares needs linemates to compliment his skillset. Our bottom 6 needs to be bigger and meaner. Our blueline needs to be better, bigger, and meaner. Our goaltending needs to be more reliable. We need more structure and accountability from the coach.

I don’t disagree with most of what you see them lacking. I just don’t see any of that as blowing it up or requiring overhauling of the entire organization

 

[Commander Clueless]

I think this is the more realistic conversation of what will happen this offseason.

I know we're all emotional (for good reason) coming off of yet another game 7 loss just witnessed the best regular season in Leafs history with our first ever 60 goal scorer. We lost in 7 to the back to back champs.

They aren't blowing this up.


Big questions are goaltending (is Mrazek LTIR-able? He can't seem to get healthy) and if Nylander is considered part of the "core" or not.


I think the Leafs definitely look to shed some salary in Kerfoot and Holl, and I think Mikheyev is pricing himself out of our range. We're looking at a major retool of the bottom six (a place where signings have actually found some success).

I'd love to see Blackwell back.

Going to be an interesting offseason.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don’t disagree with most of what you see them lacking. I just don’t see any of that as blowing it up or requiring overhauling of the entire organization

As long as Dubas sees the problems, which I'm sure he does.... and he's willing to make the tough decisions, which I'm not as sure about.... then I want him here. The only real change that has to happen is firing Keefe.

The re-shaping of the team doesn't necessarily require moving Nylander. The best thing to do is to make the changes and keep Nylander, but I don't see how that can be done. Dubas is pretty creative, so maybe he sees a way, which is why I want to keep him.

Stuff like swapping Engvall to Chistian Fischer would be the kind of salary neutral move I'd be looking to make.

 

[Snipes 29]

After setting a franchise record for points in the regular season, before making their same routine exit in round one, I find myself interested in seeing one more run with this core, provided some coaching and roster changes are made in an attempt to get the mix right. I'd love to hear everyone's plan in depth. Here is mine...

Trade Them
Alexander Kerfoot (3.5 million)
Jake Muzzin (5.6 million)
Justin Holl (2.0 million)
Petr Mrazek (3.8 million)

Let Them Walk / Retire
Ilya Mikheyev (1.6 million)
Ondrej Kase (1.25 million)
Jason Spezza (750k)

Re-sign Them
Mark Giordano (1× 1.0 million)
Jack Campbell (3x 4.0 million)
Ilya Lyubushkin (2× 2.0 million)
Timothy Liljegren (3x 3.0 million)
Rasmus Sandin (2x 1.5 million)
Colin Blackwell (1x 900k)
Pierre Engvall (2x 1.75 million)

New Money
Phil Kessel's cap retention (1.2 million)
Salary cap increase (1.0 million)

Roster Forwards
C #1: Auston Matthews (11.6 million)
C #2: John Tavares (11.0 million)
C #3: David Kampf (1.5 million)
C #4: Addition
RW #1: Mitch Marner (10.9 million)
RW #2: William Nylander (7.0 million)
RW #3: Addition
RW #4: Colin Blackwell (900k)
LW #1: Addition
LW #2: Michael Bunting (900k)
LW #3: Pierre Engvall (1.75 million)
LW #4: Addition
13th Forward: Wayne Simmonds (900k)
14th Forward: Kyle Clifford (763k)

Roster Defense
LD #1: Morgan Rielly (7.5 million)
LD #2: Mark Giordano (1.0 million)
LD #3: TJ Brodie (5.0 million)
RD #1: Addition
RD #2: Timothy Liljegren (3.0 million)
RD #3 Ilya Lyubushkin (2.0 million)
7th Dman: Rasmus Sandin (1.5 million)

Roster Goalies
Jack Campbell (4.0 million)
Addition

Total estimated Cap Hit: 71.2 million
Total remaining Salary Cap: 11.3 million

- IMO, this team needs to add a physical, top 6, power forward to play alongside Matthews and Marner, allowing Bunting to slide down to the 2nd line, where he would be a natural fit. I would expect this forward to cost in the $3.0-4.0 million range.

- IMO, this team requires a long term, steady, shutdown partner for Morgan Rielly. A natural RHD that will allow Brodie to play further down the lineup.

- There are numerous players in the system, on ELCs, that should get an opportunity to cheaply fill out some of the bottom 6 roster spots. The 5 names that come to mind include Nick Robertson, Nick Abruzzese, Joey Anderson, Pontus Holmberg and Alex Steeves. I expect at least 2 of those players will make the opening day roster in 2022.

- I think that Toronto will likely stick with Jack Campbell in goal, unless someone unexpected comes available. That said, it's imperative that Mrazek is replaced, with a cheap, solid backup, who has played meaningful games in the NHL. I'm expecting Campbell to cost a little bit of money, therefore, I'd hope that the backup comes in under $2.0 million.

- If the correct addition is made to the defense core, I really like the group on paper. Not only do I think the mix is right, I love the 7 man depth of that group, allowing some of the guys in the system to keep cooking and Sandin to rotate in regularly, keeping everyone fresh. I'd hope the addition they make costs between $3.0-$4.0 million and is a natural RHD.

tavares is useless get rid of JT

As long as Dubas sees the problems, which I'm sure he does.... and he's willing to make the tough decisions, which I'm not as sure about.... then I want him here. The only real change that has to happen is firing Keefe.

The re-shaping of the team doesn't necessarily require moving Nylander. The best thing to do is to make the changes and keep Nylander, but I don't see how that can be done. Dubas is pretty creative, so maybe he sees a way, which is why I want to keep him.

FIRE DUBASS FIRE KEEFE FIRE SHANAPLAN

 

[2 Slick]

tavares is useless get rid of JT

He has a NTC, makes 11 million dollars, there's absolutely zero chance he uproots his family to play somewhere else. It's not happening... ever.... ever... ever.

 

[Enniskillen]

Six years of failure so why keep the core? I would get rid of Matthews and Marner if it helps us get to the SCF. Did Matthews score clutch goals in game 7? Nick Paul did) So I don’t care about core at all.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner has to play with Tavares. Last time that happened Tavares scored 47

And Mitch had just about his worst season.

We are at the point where we have to not mess up other players just to try to get Tavares going.

Keep him away from players like Marner, Matthews, Nylander, and Mikheyev. He should be on the third line, preferably as a winger who takes faceoffs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Barrier was not a positive factor in that series.
Ceci was.
Hyman was what we know him to be - solid.

However, the Kings were not expected to make the playoffs coming into the season, and then they went and lost Doughty on top of that. It wasn't the cup contending team wearing the black and white.
And even then, Edmonton rode McDavid's coattails in order to make it.

Toronto played the back to back cup winners and had a big discrepancy with the officials.

If you exclude Clifford's stupidity in game one, the 'big discrepancy' was two minor penalties over seven games.

 

[SwissLeaf]

We haven't had much luck with Swiss players. How's Luca Cereda doing these day ?

I think he's doing good. Obvioualy he has to do some tests every year. He's the coach of "my" Swiss team and he's doing a great job.

 

[Trapper]

 

[AcerComputer]

If you exclude Clifford's stupidity in game one, the 'big discrepancy' was two minor penalties over seven games.

Off the top of my head, Killorn holding Matthews, Elbow to Buntings face, insane amount of TB interference on Leafs entering their zone and on the boards, the obvious ones are Corey Perry dived x 2, McDonough dive, Foote embellishment on phantom highstick, which then led to Kerfoot highstick on Hedman which would have never happened - a play by itself was also was not a penalty as Hedman lifted Kerfoot's stick into his own face. This directly led to the 5-on-3 that tied the game in game 6. If you flip the calls the other way around, and the refs called penalties on TB for what they were - diving & embellishment, and the Leafs had a powerplay instead - we'd be talking about the Leafs in the 2nd round.

 

[I am Canadian]

I would like the Leafs to trade for Jordan Greenway

 

[Dreakmur]

I would like the Leafs to trade for Jordan Greenway

There's a pile of guys round the league that could help our bottom 6.

Long-shots, but should be cheap:
Max Jones, Wade Allison, Mackenzie Entwistle, Eetu Tuulola

Solid bottom-6 guys:
Auston Watson, Christian Fischer, Keegan Kolesar, Nathan Bastian

Middle-6 guys:
Max Comtois, Nicolas Roy, Lawson Crouse, Jordan Greenway, Pavel Zacha, Miles Wood, Yakov Trenin

 

[All Mod Cons]

If I'm not mistaken, we have the following players under contract or under control as RFAs beyond this season from our roster:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Engvall-Kampf-Kase
Clifford-xxxx-Simmonds

Rielly-Liljegren
Muzzin-Brodie
Sandin-Holl

Mrazek (LTIR)
Kallgren

That's a pretty solid base to build on outside of goaltending. Upgrading our goaltending will be the most significant challenge this off season. Beyond that, if we can move Kerfoot, Holl, and Mrazek that alone frees up 9.3 million in cap space which could be put to better use with a few wily UFA acquisitions that Dubas has been able to manage in the past. We also have a few kids on the Marlies that might be ready to challenge for spots on their ELCs.

Big picture, I think it makes a lot of sense to give it one more try with the existing core.

This has been said for 3 years now.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Off the top of my head, Killorn holding Matthews, Elbow to Buntings face, insane amount of TB interference on Leafs entering their zone and on the boards, the obvious ones are Corey Perry dived x 2, McDonough dive, Foote embellishment on phantom highstick, which then led to Kerfoot highstick on Hedman which would have never happened - a play by itself was also was not a penalty as Hedman lifted Kerfoot's stick into his own face. This directly led to the 5-on-3 that tied the game in game 6. If you flip the calls the other way around, and the refs called penalties on TB for what they were - diving & embellishment, and the Leafs had a powerplay instead - we'd be talking about the Leafs in the 2nd round.

Sorry, I thought the poster I replied to was talking about the penalties called, not about biased perceptions.

 

[The Masters]

If I'm not mistaken, we have the following players under contract or under control as RFAs beyond this season from our roster:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Engvall-Kampf-Kase
Clifford-xxxx-Simmonds

Rielly-Liljegren
Muzzin-Brodie
Sandin-Holl

Mrazek (LTIR)
Kallgren

That's a pretty solid base to build on outside of goaltending. Upgrading our goaltending will be the most significant challenge this off season. Beyond that, if we can move Kerfoot, Holl, and Mrazek that alone frees up 9.3 million in cap space which could be put to better use with a few wily UFA acquisitions that Dubas has been able to manage in the past. We also have a few kids on the Marlies that might be ready to challenge for spots on their ELCs.

Big picture, I think it makes a lot of sense to give it one more try with the existing core.

Their bottom 6 is a revolving door of players and haven't produced outside of Kampf. No one on the marlies to step in either. I hope Mikeyve doesnt come back, he cant finish. Engvall was a ghost in playoffs so id move on from him. Simmonds useless.

Team needs to get better, they could very well play Tampa again next season.

I think public perception on the team will weigh on dubas and shanny as well. this season it was all about the playoffs and no one cared about RS. Now next season for sure is all about playoffs and not RS. That's tough. You gotta shake up the club.

I expect Nylander and Kerfoot gone. Move JT to the wing. Get a 2nd line centre and a D man. Find another Bunting.

 

[Mess]

You build a culture of winning and being successful in the playoffs by winning.

Conversely there comes a time when continuous losing breeds a culture of failure, and that plays into future events.

This core with Auston, Marner and Nylander along with Rielly has now lost 6 straight round #1 series, and to boot they're 0-10 when having a chance to close out a series.

There comes a time when you recognize that this core can't get over the hump, and if nothing major changes then the next time they're in another round #1 or in a position to close out a series all that past failure will weigh heavily on a teams ability to overcome, when you can't or you haven't overrides all potential we can and we will beliefs in ones self and abilities.. IMO

You can't keep tinkering around the edges year after year and think its those few new depth players on the scene that will change a losing culture into a winning one. It has come from your core group.

I'm not sure what 7 kicks at the can with the same core group will do, that you didn't already learn from the previous 6 attempts that failed previously.

 

[Clyde Brewer]

I'm ready to move on from Marner. He's extremely talented, but we need to move on from cute. We need to be mean and nasty.

I'd swap Marner for Brady Tkachuk, but I doubt Ottawa would go for it.

That would help to redefine our culture and hopefully hold others accountable. No more 6'5" Engvals not finishing checks.

 

[The Masters]

I'm ready to move on from Marner. He's extremely talented, but we need to move on from cute. We need to be mean and nasty.

I'd swap Marner for Brady Tkachuk, but I doubt Ottawa would go for it.

That would help to redefine our culture and hopefully hold others accountable. No more 6'5" Engvals not finishing checks.

id be shocked if they looked to move marner but i get what you are saying. I think though you start with nylander and kerfoot. nylander is not a playoff guy and plays with no force. We need to start there. Lets see if Dubas has any balls

 

[thusk]

We absolutely were too soft and easy to play against. Tampa didn't even have to come close to their best hockey to beat us.



You have to learn from what went wrong and make changes. Tavares needs linemates to compliment his skillset. Our bottom 6 needs to be bigger and meaner. Our blueline needs to be better, bigger, and meaner. Our goaltending needs to be more reliable. We need more structure and accountability from the coach.

Didn't have to play there best hockey or was unable to play like they want to? If youre still thinking toronto was too soft this season, your clearly didn't watch the same serie of me. Its not because they lost than you are too soft.

Too win in playoff
-you need to play hard : they did it
-You need your goalie giving you a shot to win: campbell did it
-You need to be ready to pay the price and go on traffic, blocking shot, getting hit, playing hurt and whatever : they did it
-And during a serie flip coin, you need luck too: they dont get him at all

Ghost Call on kampf game #6 change everything. If they dont call it, the way leafs was playing... probably this serie is over in 6.

Call on tavares for interence but uncall the same kind of thing on paul 2nd goal and puck bouncing : matthews of spezza deflected the puck 2 inches short of the net...

Toronto did everything they need to win this series but still loose. It was happening when maybe the best 2 team in eastern playing against each other round 1. Im pretty sure if leafs was playing any other eastern team playing the same exact way they did, they would be in round 2, and i dont have any doubt about it.

 

[Ciao]

I think the most incremental and least disruptive changes to the roster would be to trade Mrazek and Kerfoot.

Mrazek would be hard to trade and would probably cost assets.

Kerfoot should have a positive value, but the whole point of trading him would be to clear cap space and promote from within -- perhaps Nick Robertson taking his place. Taking back any significant salary would defeat the purpose, so that makes it a tough transaction.

If they could do that, then the Leafs would have a running start at keeping the roster intact with the other usual changes on the periphery.

If not, they are probably looking at very big transactions involving core players.

It will be interesting to see Leaf management's vision of the 2022-23 roster emerge.

Then again, the goaltending situation alone might demand that they move big pieces to get the type of goalie they need. I'm not at all hopeful there because the only goalies that get traded are those that the other team doesn't really need anymore. The Leafs definitely don't need one of those. If they can't get a starter that another team can't do without, then I don't see the point of moving major pieces to do that.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think the most incremental and least disruptive changes to the roster would be to trade Mrazek and Kerfoot.

Mrazek would be hard to trade and would probably cost assets.

Kerfoot should have a positive value, but the whole point of trading him would be to clear cap space and promote from within -- perhaps Nick Robertson taking his place. Taking back any significant salary would defeat the purpose, so that makes it a tough transaction.

If they could do that, then the Leafs would have a running start at keeping the roster intact with the other usual changes on the periphery.

If not, they are probably looking at very big transactions involving core players.

It will be interesting to see Leaf management's vision of the 2022-23 roster emerge.

Then again, the goaltending situation alone might demand that they move big pieces to get the type of goalie they need. I'm not at all hopeful there because the only goalies that get traded are those that the other team doesn't really need anymore. The Leafs definitely don't need one of those. If they can't get a starter that another team can't do without, then I don't see the point of moving major pieces to do that.

I'd rather have guys like E.Kane and JT Miller than Tavares. Having 5 top 6 guys is better than having 4. That is where you can really impact the roster imo.

 

[Ciao]

I'd rather have guys like E.Kane and JT Miller than Tavares. Having 5 top 6 guys is better than having 4. That is where you can really impact the roster imo.

I think Tavares has an NMC, and it would be hard to imagine the Leafs asking him to waive it. He's probably here until the end of his contract.

Since I'm just a fan -- and not management -- I'm allowed to play favorites. I really like John Tavares and I can't stand Evander Kane. Kane is much better than Tavares on the ice, but I don't think I would get too wound up cheering for him.

To each his own.