Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[leafsfan5]

It will only change if there's a new coach. Get Trotz in here...guy turned an Isles team that can't score to back-to-back appearances in the Conference Finals.

I agree, Trotz will help us win those kind of ugly, low event games where teams are fine with collapsing to their net. Drastically improves our chances of doing something come postseason time

 

[nuck]

My theory has to do with the fact that Matthews and Nylander can sign new deals July 1, 2023. Informal talks need to start about a year from now to see where their heads are at. If one or both show no interest in re-signing, they have to be traded before their NMCs kick in July 1. Upper management will have to decide whether or not they want Shanahan and Dubas to handle it, and I believe that will depend on 22-23 results.

I could be wrong of course.

Isn't that a little late to be throwing a new GM at them? We were discussing on another thread whether Kyle would be more successful re-signing AM because of the longer term relationship. He didn't draft Matthews but he signed him to that big deal and is the only GM 34 has really known. If KD doesn't have a better playoff next year then the new GM meets Matthews for the first time at the contract table. Of course last time around Matty said "we just want to play hockey, we have agents for that stuff" and he got the moon so he might honestly not care. I think he gets whatever he wants from whoever the GM is. I am not sure Willie isn't dealt no matter what, because he will be pushing for the biggest bump of the three and we know he will sit to make a point.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Isn't that a little late to be throwing a new GM at them? We were discussing on another thread whether Kyle would be more successful re-signing AM because of the longer term relationship. He didn't draft Matthews but he signed him to that big deal and is the only GM 34 has really known. If KD doesn't have a better playoff next year then the new GM meets Matthews for the first time at the contract table. Of course last time around Matty said "we just want to play hockey, we have agents for that stuff" and he got the moon so he might honestly not care. I think he gets whatever he wants from whoever the GM is. I am not sure Willie isn't dealt no matter what, because he will be pushing for the biggest bump of the three and we know he will sit to make a point.

Timing shouldn't matter if you hire the right guy. Our cap guy is also involved in negotiations.

Sooner or later Dubas will be replaced if he has no playoff success. I say next year is his D-Day.

 

[myleafs]

At the end of the day individual series wins don't matter; Cup wins do and pretending the Oilers and Flames are closer than we are to being a cup winner because they barely beat weak playoff teams is wrong.

except they are literally closer to being a cup winner than us....I mean 2nd round and still in it is technically closer to the cup than being knocked out in the 1st right?

 

[Trapper]

except they are literally closer to being a cup winner than us....I mean 2nd round and still in it is technically closer to the cup than being knocked out in the 1st right?

One of the Oilers/Flames are guaranteed to be in the 3rd round.

 

[ShaneFalco]

At the end of the day individual series wins don't matter; Cup wins do and pretending the Oilers and Flames are closer than we are to being a cup winner because they barely beat weak playoff teams is wrong.

Winning is contagious. Players get more confident, they've proven they can step up in playoff hockey. Losers every year have demons, lack of a killer instinct - just ask management

 

[ToneDog]

Who?

Leafs #1 24th OA pick who had a heart issue and never played a game.

 

[myleafs]

Sakic dumped ROR, Duchene, etc... when he saw it isn't working. He retooled/rebuilt the roster. Took a couple steps back to take 10 steps forward. A competent GM acknowledges their mistake and tries to fix it and do it "Correctly" the next time.


Key Word: Competent GM

We need a competent GM before retooling/rebuilding again. Dubas should not be allowed to shape the future anymore

Im not sure Id go that far....this leafs team is the best Ive seen in a long long time but are just missing something. A total blowup doesnt make sense and doesnt need to happen but something does. A change of perspective of some kind. I think we have too many of the same kind of player. For me I think of having both Tkchuk brothers and or a couple jt miller types instead of Tavares and Nylander is the missing ingredient. I would take Evander Kane instead of Nylander (1-2yr only) That type of player to compliment MnM . Also have a purpose for the 4th line and for me it would be a hitting everything in sight kind of line ...hungry and young players) but if not that then something rather than just seat fillers. I personally would have liked to seen Clifford and Simmonds in some of the later games in the series. I like Campbell as much as the next guy but I would really like to see a difference maker in net.

Now if Dubas comes out and spews the same stuff he did last year (and I like Dubas for the most part) I will not like it one bit and my opinion of his vision will lower. We are good, but not good enough.

 

[Dreakmur]

I just don't see how you really change the look of the team without using the cap space from a Nylander trade. We were once again too soft and easy to play against. Outside of Douglas, who may not stick, none of our ELCs are the types of players we need.

We need to acquire multiple quality middle-6, bottom-6 guys, and a couple of defensemen.

 

[Racer88]

Gotta find them first! They're mysterious.

I think Tom Hanks knows where they are

Got it. I'll wait to hear from the team or see what action they take.

Have the players cleaned out their lockers? Dubas made his end of year address yet?
If not do we know when that is scheduled?

I hear ya. I wonder what’s taking so long to do all those things. Maybe the after party at Tavares cottage is still raging

 

[Sniper99]

You can't move JT so that leaves Marner and Nylander.

We don't want Matthew Tkachuk - he has been HORRID in the playoffs.

Can you really move Mitch though? Good luck, Nylander is the guy you move.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

My problem is the following:

Say we run it back, keep Keefe/Dubas and slightly tune the edges, what's to stop our first round opponent next year from using the strategy that Tampa used in game 7 (the same method used to beat us back in 2020 by CBJ)? I mean sure, our opponent might end up being someone like FLA who can't effectively implement that style, but we'll eventually run into a team who can do that in the later rounds.

How will we counter it? Its been 3 years and it's clear Keefe doesn't know how to. We still love overpassing and not throw pucks to the net. Will that suddenly change next year? I don't think so. The book is out on how to beat us and keeping everything status quo will allow it to be exploited next year

I really don't understand how this team kept trying to pass it into the net. Why would you not shoot from every angle and at every single chance you get? Waiting for the perfect shot killed us so many times and we always end up losing because the other team gets off a weak shot and scores on the rebound. I guess our players beside Bunting and JT don't want to crash the crease to get those types of goals. Oh well....Keefe for another year it looks like.

 

[Sniper99]

My god. Edmonton needed 7 games to beat a Doughty-less Kings team and Calgary played the second worst team to make the playoffs in the league this year and were one goal from elimination. Giving either credit for eeking out series wins by the skin of their teeth against such mediocre teams while punishing the Leafs for a close game 7 loss to an actual power house is about as disingenuous as it gets.

That Doughty-less team played their ass off from first line on down. On paper that series should have been over in 5 and after Game 3's Edmonton 8-2 win I be a lot of people thought it would be over in 5.

 

[Sniper99]

Yeah last year we choked no doubt. This year was definitely not a choke and the best series this core has played by far. The rational thing to do with a 115 point team that almost beat the back to back cup champs is to try one more time then ship the core out if they lose early again next year. By that time half of the core is 1 year away from UFA so panic would actually be warranted by then. If you disassemble this team now you better be prepared to not compete for the cup again for a while.

I dont think people are expecting a massive "disassemble" that you think could happen. f*** the 115 points Doesnt do f*** all come playoffs does it? If they were able to pull off a trade to get Tavares out wouldnt you be up for it, to free up some cap space and bring in a player or two that would actually work hard? Im all for it.

Boo hoo quit crying about what Edmonton and Calgary had to deal with, their opponents busted their ass and no one expected Kings/Dallas to go 7 games with them but they DID. We were dealt Tampa and thats what you gotta work with.

 

[ULF_55]

More like 5 potentially OUT ... UFAs .. Ilya Mikheyev, Jason Spezza, Ilya Lyubushkin, Mark Giordano & Jack Campbell

*** Unless some are signed and return.

Your 2023 Toronto Maple Leafs

Bunting -------- Matthews ---- Marner
Kerfoot -------- Tavares ------- Nylander
Engvall (RFA) --- Kampf ------- Kase (RFA)
Clifford -------- Abruzzese ---- Simmonds
Nick Robertson,

Rielly --- Brodie
Muzzin -- Holl
Sandin (RFA) -- Liljegren (RFA)

Mrazek
Erik Källgren

That comes to $74,439,783 under contract with 4 X RFA excluded = $7,847,717 (free cap) of $82,500,000.

Once the Leafs re-sign their own RFAs (@ $4.5 mil combined) = about $3 mil free cap space for next year before trades.

Looks like the entire 4th. line can be sent to minors and replaced with 3 other prospects without impacting the Cap.

I think Kerfoot is moved.

Top 3 forwards in post season stay. They have no one in the system capable of top 6.

 

[Dave92]

How can you have more of anything you've never had.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Can you really move Mitch though? Good luck, Nylander is the guy you move.

I dunno. I read on the mainboards that Minnie is our top player, way better than Matthews, etc.

Should be an easy move. Should get a pile in return. At least you'd think so? (no?)

 

[Sniper99]

Rewarding mediocrity, being smug, easily satistifed and being complacent is NOT winning mindset.

Enough is Enough Already!

Dubas is a failed GM. Need new direction and need new voice. Period!

"yeah but hes good with advanced stats and a calculator."

 

[Canadian Finn]

"yeah but hes good with advanced stats and a calculator."

This deserves the classic response HF bootlicker response:

It sounds like you’re making generalizations about people based on your perception of them, maybe you’re offended by smart looking individuals who talk with composure and confidence as opposed to spitting out quotes like beligerence testosterone pugnacity etc.



yes, folks, that is it. people are afraid of smart looking individuals who talk with composure and confidence - amazing fanbase we have!

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

one "more" run? lol. 6 isnt enough?

if the leafs didnt crap the bed so much against the bottom teams they wouldve finished 1st playing a lesser opponent.

 

[Sniper99]

He just put together a team that smashed club records for points, wins and pts%, you need to be a good regular season team to even have a shot in the playoffs so yes the regular season is very important. Remember the days when burkie’s pugnacity had us out of contention by thanksgiving? Or were the 18wheeler seasons fun?
they lost to the 2x defending cup champs in a 7 game series by one goal. What about that spells blow it up?
All those before dubas whom you bow to in greatness didn’t achieve half the shit Kyle has, a regular season is 82 games and much better sample size of a team. They lost one game by one goal (one that was called back) to the odds on favourites to three peat. They’re close.

Bravo give us the Stanley Cup of the regular season then. When is the parade? Hes also handcuffed this team and gave us little cap space to use to upgrade all while overpaying Mrazek.

Here comes the "you do realize we played the 2 X defending champions lightning right?" No shit.

We also had 2 other good regular seasons before that, sure they were short due to covid we shouldnt have lost to columbus. and we had no business losing to Montreal after game 4 last year. Its not working.

 

[A1LeafNation]

If I were to look at this team and dissect the key issues on the team, it comes down to two things you look at changing.

1. Goaltending: Get another goalie similar Campbell and dump Mrazek. Perhaps Mrazek is that goalie, who knows. But I'm trying to resign Campbell and go with two guys instead of putting my eggs in one guy who may or may not be injured come playoff time.

2. Tavares: turn his cap hit into two top 6 forwards. We were sold that this Leafs offense was going to come at you in waves, but what's happened is that the second line has conformed to a typical yet expensive second line. At 23.5m, that is a typical 1st line cost imo. 22m for this 2nd line is over priced and overrated in the NHL. The problem is Tavares no matter how you slice it. Dubas fkd that up and it needs to be addressed. The team will be stretched thin as long as we have a 1st and 2nd line instead of two 1st lines.

So as bad or unrealistic as it seems, the answer is most likely a framework of a team similar to this year's group...

Bunting Matthews Marner
________ _________ Nylander
Mikheyev Kerfoot Kase
Engvall Kampf Blackwell
Spezza

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Giordano Liljegren
Sandin

_______
Campbell

 

[Canadian Finn]

Yes 6 years of 1st round exits is shameful and yes the goal is to win, but changing what has already been put together is a step backwards.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I just don't see how you really change the look of the team without using the cap space from a Nylander trade. We were once again too soft and easy to play against. Outside of Douglas, who may not stick, none of our ELCs are the types of players we need.

We need to acquire multiple quality middle-6, bottom-6 guys, and a couple of defensemen.

we.... weren't too soft and easy t play against.
Just ask Tampa who said this was their hardest series they had in ages.

but sure. we were soft. i guess.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Bravo give us the Stanley Cup of the regular season then. When is the parade? Hes also handcuffed this team and gave us little cap space to use to upgrade all while overpaying Mrazek.

Here comes the "you do realize we played the 2 X defending champions lightning right?" No shit.

We also had 2 other good regular seasons before that, sure they were short due to covid we shouldnt have lost to columbus. and we had no business losing to Montreal after game 4 last year. Its not working.

The teams not handcuffed by any means, there’s lots of movable salary. Mrazek Campbell Holl muzzin kerfoot Kase mikheyev represent 20m in cap, just about 25% you have two internal replacements for muz and Holl with sandin and liljegren, you expect one marlie forward to grab a spot. You take those savings and you get an impact goalie and some middle 6 weight.

No one’s happy with what’s transpired it’s just not worth yelling and screaming about David Ayer’s and penguin teams missing sid, or even the streak. None of that does any good towards pushing this process farther across the line.
I even think elements of the development and the coaching staff and even the coach himself should be examined and looked at and obviously any deal that makes the team better you look at doing, but I’ve yet to hear a legit trade that “shakes it up” and makes the team more competitive next season. There’s no Kawhi trade out there for the leafs.