Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[The Masters]

Dealing a 1st line winger for a 2nd line C seems like terrible asset management.

get a D man along with it where we also need help

Nylander is not your guy in the playoffs.

Team needs to make changes, he's the only player with real value that you can move.

 

[sxvnert]

Nylander for two top prospects (RHD, C). Use that 7m towards a top four RHD.

 

[killer1980]

Marner a floater? He’s a 100pt winger who plays all three zones well and contributes a ton on the pk

Make your choice, do you want to win the Cup or regular season. Only 3 Presidential Cup winners have won the SC in the last 20 years. Marner can light it up during the regular season. In the playoffs, not so much. Pick your poison. It's real tough to do both.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Make your choice, do you want to win the Cup or regular season. Only 3 Presidential Cup winners have won the SC in the last 20 years. Marner can light it up during the regular season. In the playoffs, not so much. Pick your poison. It's real tough to do both.

He just put up ppg+ against the 2x cup champs

 

[Just Rude]

Okay.

I'll say the counter point would be that the Tavares signing at the time was significant. For years, people would bitch and complain that no high profile free agents would come to Toronto. So instead, they would have to overpay for guys like David Clarkson and Mike Komisarek. I truly don't believe that the Tavares signing handcuffed the team at the time. The part where you could criticize Dubas is overpaying both Matthews and Marner out of their entry level deals.

As soon as you gave $11 m to JT, Dubas was going to overpay AM and MM. Agents aren’t stupid. The JT contract set the bar for AM and MM. Imagine giving JT that contract and then lowballing those two.

 

[Mopar]

I know a lot of us are upset but there's no way we're trading Matthews and/or Marner and actually improving on them. They're home grown superstars. They weren't the problem this playoffs.

I would absolutely try to drill into Marner's head to play a simpler game in the playoffs. Get the puck to the net. No need to try and make a highlight reel play every time you're on the ice. Other than that he was very impressive this series.

 

[PromisedLand]

Moving Marner or Matthews would be a mistake. Rebuilding teams are praying they end up with the roster pieces we have. I get it, we haven't gotten out of the 1st, but those 2 guys should be retiring here. The loss sucked, but how can people really watch that series and think blowing up the core is the answer ? We went toe to toe with a heavyweight, and actually outplayed them, just some unfortunate "bounces" that went in their favor. The changes that we need are in the bottom 6 and possibly in net.

First, to me the only thing that matters is seeing Toronto Maple Leafs on the Stanley Cup. Whether the names under there say Matthews and Marner or not is irrelevant.

Second, I don't buy the back to back champions narrative. Tampa team this season is a lot weaker than their cup winning teams and not 18 million over the cap. Point has been playing injured and was out 2nd and 3rd period of the Game 7. Kucherov has been playing at 50%, tampa social media said he had been sick for half of the series. And Vasi was not at his best and we still couldn't close the deal.

Third, the goof of a coach continued to play Holl to prove a point to a nobody like simmons. Result: Holl allows Point to walk in and score the Game 6 OT winner (just rewatch that goal); and I am not even bringing up other gaffes that Holl made.

Fourth, every Game 7 this season home team closed the series and advanced except for the Leafs. In those home games the stars or acquired help showed up:

• Game 7s
  • Oilers: McJesus
  • Rangers: Zibanejad, Panarin, Kreider
  • Canes: Domi
  • Flames: Gaudreau, Tkachuck
    • DID NOT play victims or yell hot goalie even though oettinger went god mode. No hot goalie excuse. they kept shooting and shooting and shooting
  • Tampa: Nick freakin Paul
  • Leafs: ....

Somethings gotta give. Patience is one thing, but it is clear to me at least, that patience is not the right move here. Gotta change the management, let the new GM come in and decide wehter you keep matthews and marner or move on.

Finally, every season some team makes conference finals and has a chance to win it all. These teams do not have matthews or marner on their roster. Simply put, if leafs with matthews and marner thats great, if the Leafs win without them it is still great. Marner had ZERO shots in Game 7. How is that even acceptable given what Marner did last season against the habs? Somethings gotta give.

For me that "something" starts with the management team. A new GM and a new Coach to either instill confidence in this core or they find someone else who will get it done.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Kerfoot has 1 5v5 goal in 37 career playoff games. Mikheyev 0 in 19 career games, and Engvall hasn't scored in 17. Kase has 2G in 31 GP.

Those are Ryan Reaves-type numbers.

I agree Marner needs to go. Nylanders cap hit is too good to trade. Marner is a floater and is expendable. Problem is, this may hurt Matthews feelings and Dubas doesn’t like to hurt feelings

The actual problem would be winning a Marner trade. How does that work?

 

[killer1980]

He just put up ppg+ against the 2x cup champs

Unfortunately, the regular season is for personal stats. The playoffs are for the team. Just for the record, he was -3 over the last 5 games of the playoffs.

 

[showtime8]

As soon as you gave $11 m to JT, Dubas was going to overpay AM and MM. Agents aren’t stupid. The JT contract set the bar for AM and MM. Imagine giving JT that contract and then lowballing those two.

It's not really the same thing though.

In 98% of cases up until they signed, players either bridged out of their ELC's on 1-3 year deals, or got a fair 5 year increase to keep them as RFA's at the end. I believe Marner, Matthews and Eichel were the only ones that got 10+mill a season. Dubas should have never done that. That was his error. Not handing money to a guy that was in the league for 8 or 9 years previously.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Unfortunately, the regular season is for personal stats. The playoffs are for the team. Just for the record, he was -3 over the last 5 games of the playoffs.

I wasn’t talking about the regular season. He just had 8 pts in 7 games.

 

[GoonieFace]

Moving Marner or Matthews would be a mistake. Rebuilding teams are praying they end up with the roster pieces we have. I get it, we haven't gotten out of the 1st, but those 2 guys should be retiring here. The loss sucked, but how can people really watch that series and think blowing up the core is the answer ? We went toe to toe with a heavyweight, and actually outplayed them, just some unfortunate "bounces" that went in their favor. The changes that we need are in the bottom 6 and possibly in net.


"Marner is a floater" Worst take in the entire thread, i'm outta here until you guys all cool off. Some truly ridiculous takes in here.

Tampa is not the same team as previous years, and regardless, they still lost like every other year. The core needs to change, Kyle needs to go. The time is over for hoping things change. Enough is enough already

 

[Morbo]

Unfortunately, the regular season is for personal stats. The playoffs are for the team. Just for the record, he was -3 over the last 5 games of the playoffs.

sure, but come up with a move that makes the team better. with names.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Tampa is not the same team as previous years, and regardless, they still lost like every other year. The core needs to change, Kyle needs to go. The time is over for hoping things change. Enough is enough already

Can you believe it, we have only 2 more years of Matthews contract left and we still have done NOTHING of note in the playoffs. Except we gained the SC champs respect once lol.

 

[keonsbitterness]

So early indications are that the core 5, Shanahan, Dubas, and probably Keefe will return. If that's true, remember who first predicted it here last summer-- ME!

Gimme a cookie.

 

[Apex Predator]

As soon as you gave $11 m to JT, Dubas was going to overpay AM and MM. Agents aren’t stupid. The JT contract set the bar for AM and MM. Imagine giving JT that contract and then lowballing those two.

I thought when they signed Tavares Matthews would sign under him because Tavares would set the bar for max on the team. You can’t make more than Tavares since he has years of putting up those numbers. Matthews had not hit 70 points or 40 goals yet I thought Matthews would come in at 10 and then Marner at 8. I was wrong on that one.

 

[PromisedLand]

So early indications are that the core 5, Shanahan, Dubas, and probably Keefe will return. If that's true, remember who first predicted it here last summer-- ME!

Gimme a cookie.

If management and coaching staff returns I am taking a break from the Leafs. I don;t have it in me to support the incompetence anymore

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

I have a hard time seeing blackwell signing here to be a 4th liner, I’m sure he can get more opportunity elsewhere

 

[fahad203]

Can you believe it, we have only 2 more years of Matthews contract left and we still have done NOTHING of note in the playoffs. Except we gained the SC champs respect once lol.

How does your GM lock in your best franchise player, a semi generational player to only 5 years?

I am still baffled by this

You get 8 years. You paid him good money, you had to get terms. You could have paid him another million per year, but you had to get terms
8 years

McDavid signed 8 years in Edmonton.......
Eichel signed 8 years in Buffalo
Barkov signed for 8 years
Kane signed 8 year with Chicago

Kopitar, Point, Malkin allll on 8 year dealllllll

I mean come on Kyle........

 

[keonsbitterness]

How does your GM lock in your best franchise player, a semi generational player to only 5 years?

I am still baffled by this

You get 8 years. You paid him good money, you had to get terms. You could have paid him another million per year, but you had to get terms
8 years

McDavid signed 8 years in Edmonton.......
Eichel signed 8 years in Buffalo
Barkov signed for 8 years
Kane signed 8 year with Chicago

Kopitar, Point, Malkin allll on 8 year dealllllll

I mean come on Kyle........

There is an upside to the path the Leafs took. With consecutive 8-year contracts, Matthews would be 38 when the second deal ended so you could be paying max money for a few years of reduced production. With 5+8, Matthews will be 35 when the second deal expires, so more prime years.

Assuming he re-signs here of course, which I think he will.

 

[PromisedLand]

Can you believe it, we have only 2 more years of Matthews contract left and we still have done NOTHING of note in the playoffs. Except we gained the SC champs respect once lol.

Gaining respect? LOL. What a loser attitude that was by Keefe. I like the way Sutter thinks the guy who has won cups

 

[capfit9]

sure, but come up with a move that makes the team better. with names.

fire dubas & keefe

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Another year of this.....
Mann....

 

[ACC1224]

Can you believe it, we have only 2 more years of Matthews contract left and we still have done NOTHING of note in the playoffs. Except we gained the SC champs respect once lol.

Nothing?? Respect isn't 'nothing"!!

 

[Mess]

How many re-tools does it take to screw in a light bulb before a good idea becomes a bad idea?

I guess the answer I suppose comes down to how many 1st round losses does it take to convince someone that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The core group of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly is already 0 for 6 when it comes to winning a single playoff round. Maybe #7 is the lucky number if swap out a few spare parts and run it back.

Now here is another idea. Since the Leafs are the only non expansion team since the Salary Cap was instituted in 2005 to fail to win single playoff round, perhaps their failures are tied to Salary Cap allocation of core players consuming too much C.H.% that there isn't enough remaining Cap space $ for those constantly interchangeable re-tooling parts to ice a competitive playoff hockey team?

Maybe having 3 of the 5 highest cap hit forwards is a REAL bad idea rather than a good one.

PLAYER	TEAM		CAP HIT		CAP HIT %
1. Connor McDavid	Edmonton Oilers		$12,500,000​		16.70%
2. Artemi Panarin	New York Rangers		$11,642,857​		14.30%
3. Auston Matthews	Toronto Maple Leafs		$11,640,250​		14.60%
4. Erik Karlsson	San Jose Sharks		$11,500,000​		14.50%
5. Drew Doughty	Los Angeles Kings		$11,000,000​		13.80%
6. John Tavares	Toronto Maple Leafs		$11,000,000​		13.80%
7. Mitchell Marner	Toronto Maple Leafs		$10,903,000​		13.40%

Swapping out a few spare parts in a re-tooling is not going to fix this. !!!!!