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Tribute Rasmus Sandin Discussion Thread

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I consider Knies to be our top and most valuable prospect. If Arizona is dead set on him, I am moving on.

Knies is exactly what we are missing, exactly what we don’t have, and what we haven’t had in forever.

Missing on that Weegar opportunity just sucks rocks.

connor Murphy would be my main get at this point….
 
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wingman75 said:
I guess... but I am old... and my team has never won... and I am getting tired of it... I know, that is lame. But it is also real.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Other than the being old part everyone should feel that way. Especially if you're into your 40's or 50's. I mean i'm under 30 and think if this core doesn't workout i'm likely kicking 40 in the ass before the next rebuild has time to reach it's peak and maybe win a cup. I actually hate thinking about it at my age and do sympathize with those who have 30,40 or even 50 years invested in this team without reward. It's kinda scary.
 
With Sandin I always go back to the question of what the Leafs envision him to be at his fully realized potential.

Without any sentimentality, is he merely a top 4 guy or do you think you’ll get a special Adam Fox style “genius” out there?

Either answer produces a follow up question. If he’s just a top 4, is he the right piece to develop long term or do you get a better all situation guy with different strengths and build? Or if he’s really unique and special and will outplay his size and speed issues, what kind of partner do you need to get to maximize him, and as soon as possible?
 
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Stephen said:
With Sandin I always go back to the question of what the Leafs envision him to be at his fully realized potential.

Without any sentimentality, is he merely a top 4 guy or do you think you’ll get a special Adam Fox style “genius” out there?

Either answer produces a follow up question. If he’s just a top 4, is he the right piece to develop long term or do you get a better all situation guy with different strengths and build? Or if he’s really unique and special and will outplay his size and speed issues, what kind of partner do you need to get to maximize him, and as soon as possible?
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Enstrom is the realistic ceiling I think. Good piece to have cost controlled but not a 25 minute a night game changer.
 
Martin Skoula said:
Enstrom is the realistic ceiling I think. Good piece to have cost controlled but not a 25 minute a night game changer.
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Good comparable. I thought maybe Stralman as well but Stralman has better wheels.

I guess the question becomes did Enstrom have to play with a guy like Byfuglien for max mileage? And if so what’s the plan to get him a partner who can make stops and kick out loose pucks to him?
 
ToneDog said:
Problem with Sandin and Lily is that we need them to be today what they might be in a couple of years. Might be best to be patient with them but this team's window is open and if Chych can be had for a package starting with Sandin, you have to consider it. I'm not holding my breath though.
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Especially with Jakob being 23. It's like adding a top prospect , he's still developing and has a higher ceiling than Sandin.

People are acting like Sandin is a 21 year old Nylander the way they get so offended if you want to trade him. He's not. They can draft outside the top 20 and develop another Sandin no problem. We are adding an impact top 4 D, so resetting the development (baking time) on sandin back to zero is not a concern.
 
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DraftSchmaft said:
Especially with Jakob being 23. It's like adding a top prospect , he's still developing and has a higher ceiling than Sandin.

People are acting like Sandin is a 21 year old Nylander the way they get so offended if you want to trade him. He's not. They can draft outside the top 20 and develop another Sandin no problem. We are adding an impact top 4 D, so resetting the development (baking time) on sandin back to zero is not a concern.
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Not over reacting to last night, but I think I’m a lot more willing to see a Sandin for Chychrun type deal seeing the Rangers game. The age difference is negligible being two drafts apart in age and Sandin comes off his ELC this year anyway so that advantage in salary is mitigated.

Reasons why I’m more willing to see something like that happen is Sandin’s weaknesses as a player are similar to the Leafs flaws as a team.

If he’s a high skill player who can be neutralized through heavy forecheck then he’s going to be a weak exploit in the heaviest moments against a game plan we’ve seen vs Boston, Columbus and Montreal. If we get a big body, more physical defenseman who can bring a point shot, high end athleticism that helps change the top six in a hurry.

So much to like about his smarts and skill but a lot to also think about in terms of skating and size which could limit what he can do for us. It’s funny. If you plugged his brain with Dermott’s skating you’d have a special player.
 
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stickty111 said:
:facepalm:
Leafs fans logic 101
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Drafting well isn't just to build a pipeline. It's also so you have the assets to fast forward in time when the opportunity strikes. Why sit with a "maybe" top 4 when you can just take advantage of your drafting and make a package to get a top 4.

Using Sandin to fast forward to a non-rental top 4 is basics, assuming you're lucky enough to find a team willing. Sandin isn't a blue chip with must-have elite or unique qualities. He's eligible for fast forward use. Maybe you should brush up on some hockey 101.

**Sandin has must-have traits. I mean it from a blue chip point of view.
 
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Stephen said:
Not over reacting to last night, but I think I’m a lot more willing to see a Sandin for Chychrun type deal seeing the Rangers game. The age difference is negligible being two drafts apart in age and Sandin comes off his ELC this year anyway so that advantage in salary is mitigated.

Reasons why I’m more willing to see something like that happen is Sandin’s weaknesses as a player are similar to the Leafs flaws as a team.

If he’s a high skill player who can be neutralized through heavy forecheck then he’s going to be a weak exploit in the heaviest moments against a game plan we’ve seen vs Boston, Columbus and Montreal. If we get a big body, more physical defenseman who can bring a point shot, high end athleticism that helps change the top six in a hurry.

So much to like about his smarts and skill but a lot to also think about in terms of skating and size which could limit what he can do for us. It’s funny. If you plugged his brain with Dermott’s skating you’d have a special player.
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We got too many smaller puck carrying dmen and not enough big studs who can clear the front of the net. Sandin and Lily are great at moving the puck but are not so great defending, especially against bigger, strong and a higher quality players.
 
Shooter2x said:
Drafting well isn't just to build a pipeline. It's also so you have the assets to fast forward in time when the opportunity strikes. Why sit with a "maybe" top 4 when you can just take advantage of your drafting and make a package to get a top 4.

Using Sandin to fast forward to a non-rental top 4 is basics, assuming you're lucky enough to find a team willing. Sandin isn't a blue chip with must-have elite or unique qualities. He's eligible for fast forward use. Maybe you should brush up on some hockey 101.

**Sandin has must-have traits. I mean it from a blue chip point of view.
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That’s where I land on this as well. I’m not married to the idea that Sandin needs to be traded but also not an untouchable.

The way I see it is, if you can magically make Sandin 3-4” taller, 20-30 pounds heavier, 2 years older, a lot faster, harder hitting and more athletic and shoot more and better and maybe able to withstand physical pressure better (but maybe take a haircut on the hockey sense) wouldn’t that be a worthwhile pursuit? I think that’s the Chychrun concept if it’s available to us.
 
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Sandin has lots of work to do in the off season, His foot speed is less than NHL level. He guessing vs reading the play. He's physically weak. On the positive side he's a great passer. He's young and has time to develop.
 
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Stephen said:
Not over reacting to last night, but I think I’m a lot more willing to see a Sandin for Chychrun type deal seeing the Rangers game. The age difference is negligible being two drafts apart in age and Sandin comes off his ELC this year anyway so that advantage in salary is mitigated.

Reasons why I’m more willing to see something like that happen is Sandin’s weaknesses as a player are similar to the Leafs flaws as a team.

If he’s a high skill player who can be neutralized through heavy forecheck then he’s going to be a weak exploit in the heaviest moments against a game plan we’ve seen vs Boston, Columbus and Montreal. If we get a big body, more physical defenseman who can bring a point shot, high end athleticism that helps change the top six in a hurry.

So much to like about his smarts and skill but a lot to also think about in terms of skating and size which could limit what he can do for us. It’s funny. If you plugged his brain with Dermott’s skating you’d have a special player.
Click to expand...
I like Sandin but if you get Chychrun the defense would be pretty stacked. We also have Kral who is having a big year for the Marlies and looks like he could maybe step in on the 3rd pair next year. He is also 6'2. Possibly Rubins as well

For this year we could be looking at:

Rielly Brodie
Chychrun Holl
Muzzin Liljegren

Would still like to see an upgrade on the Holl though.

If we moved on from Muzzin in the next year or so, we could be looking at:

Rielly Brodie
Chychrun Liljegren
Kral Niemela (or FA?)
 
I haven't seen the Leafs linked to Chychrun. Sounds like the Rangers made an offer, and Boston is in the mix.
 
LeafsFan89 said:
I haven't seen the Leafs linked to Chychrun. Sounds like the Rangers made an offer, and Boston is in the mix.
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Yeah, nothing specific and it’s hard to see the cap fit right now, when there’s already going to be some pruning to fit Jack (or a second goalie) next year.
 
acrobaticgoalie said:
I like Sandin but if you get Chychrun the defense would be pretty stacked. We also have Kral who is having a big year for the Marlies and looks like he could maybe step in on the 3rd pair next year. He is also 6'2. Possibly Rubins as well

For this year we could be looking at:

Rielly Brodie
Chychrun Holl
Muzzin Liljegren

Would still like to see an upgrade on the Holl though.

If we moved on from Muzzin in the next year or so, we could be looking at:

Rielly Brodie
Chychrun Liljegren
Kral Niemela (or FA?)
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I really like Kral too. For a while now.
I also like Dahlstrom. Not flashy but defends the net well.
Wouldn't mind seeing
Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Lily
Sandin Dahlstrom
Dermott
Imo that's a good d that can handle a heavy forecheck and move the puck out well.
If we trade Sandin in a Chychrun deal
Rielly Brodie
Chychrun Liljegren
Muzzin Dermott (as Dermott is a better puck mover)
Dahlstrom
Muzzin can still get his minutes rotating through the other pairings.
That would be a pretty good set imo
 
leafers said:
Sandin>Chychrun imo.
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Ya gotta stop drinking kool aid man .. it is not even remotely close in any hockey skill .. Jakob is far far better defender, Jakob is much much bigger/stronger/tougher, Jakob is much much faster and Jakob can play a shut down role today and Jakob has an amazing shot which would add value to our PP .. Sandin is not even a top level AHL level skater (he is a mid range AHL level skater)
 
Sandin this season as a 21 year old that is getting tested with top 4 use:

xGF%: 61.93 (+8.54 REL)

I know Sandin only has 9 points in 33 games but with his xGF% first among all 169 players with 400 5v5 minutes combined with his REL being 4th in the league, I think he a pretty sure bet to be around this playoffs.

I mean, anyone has a price but he's one of the kids in the league whose underlying stats are screaming "DO NOT TRADE THIS GUY".

Sure, he could end up a Dermott and not quite pan out the way you thought but with Chychrun seemingly what the folks want for him, thats a very massive gamble. Chychrun's on a bad team and all but are his 8 points in 30 games and 43.32 xGF (+.35 REL) really all that impressive in his role there compared with what Sandin is doing? It's so tough to measure guys on bad teams though. I just don't wanna gamble any futures away for unknowns.
 
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I am on the DO NOT TRADE team for Sandin. I am not concerned with his point totals. They will come later on, if we even need them. Be solid defensively, move the puck well.
 
Muzzin has full NTC until 2023/24, why is he waiving that to likely go to some worse team?

Muzzin is going nowhere for next year so if you can't fit Chychrun without moving Muzzin it isn't going to work
 
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