Rangers Prospect Ranking: (Winter 2020) - #8

[mas0764]

Feels like Robertson continues to get underrated.

 

[Edge]

Feels like Robertson continues to get underrated.

I think he probably suffers a little bit because he's safe.

I love Jones, and there is some intriguing skill there, but I think this board is getting seduced by numbers again --- which the competition catches on, and the flaws tend to be exposed a bit more.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think he probably suffers a little bit because he's safe.

I love Jones, and there is some intriguing skill there, but I think this board is getting seduced by numbers again --- which the competition catches on, and the flaws tend to be exposed a bit more.

I take Jones over Keane. Aren't people seduced by Keane's numbers, as well? I think he's been okay this year, nothing great. Talking about his play--forget the seductive numbers. I think Jones has been really good--talking about his play, not numbers.

 

[Edge]

I take Jones over Keane. Aren't people seduced by Keane's numbers, as well? I think he's been okay this year, nothing great. Talking about his play--forget the seductive numbers. I think Jones has been really good--talking about his play, not numbers.

I think Jones has been really, really good.

I think Keane has good for longer, and is now good having moved on to a higher level of competition --- he's the first 20 year old AHL allstar we've had in how many years? And he won't turn 21 until the summer.

And I'm also one of those people who routinely pushes back against judging Keane by his numbers.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think Jones has been really, really good.

I think Keane has good for longer, and is now good having moved on to a higher level of competition --- he's the first 20 year old AHL allstar we've had in how many years? And he won't turn 21 until the summer.

And I'm also one of those people who routinely pushes back against judging Keane by his numbers.

Fair enough. I've been on the record since last year in my opinion that the hype around Keane was unwarranted. I think he's been okay, and as you said, now that the league is catching up with him (1 points, 11 SOG last 10 games after 21 points, 40 SOG in his first 28 games), the rest of the package looks even less interesting to me. Time will tell, I suppose.

 

[Edge]

Fair enough. I've been on the record since last year in my opinion that the hype around Keane was unwarranted. I think he's been okay, and as you said, now that the league is catching up with him (1 points, 11 SOG last 10 games after 21 points, 40 SOG in his first 28 games), the rest of the package looks even less interesting to me. Time will tell, I suppose.

And that's why I don't think we should view him by the offensive numbers, because it's not his meat and potatoes and there are times I think there's been a misconception that it is.

Keane's strengths are his awareness, his ability to read the play, and his ability to anticipate and get where he needs to be. As a result, that can lead to offense --- which is awesome.

But when you watch Keane, you realize it's that he slipped into the neutral zone to cover for his guy who was pinching (and shouldn't be pinching). It's when you realize that his OHL team could throw him out their on the first pair, or he can slide into a support role on a new team and give them depth.

The other night, I saw him tethered to Mason Geertsen and it perfectly summed up what makes Keane a good prospect, and also why the offensive numbers aren't there. You have a 6'4, 220 pound defenseman who has 7 professional goals, spread out of multiple leagues and six professional seasons, jumping into the play and getting caught in the offensive zone. He has no business doing that once, let alone several times.

Whose hanging back? Joey Keane. Who's breaking up the 2-1 on the other way? And whose doing that at the cost of his own numbers? It's Keane.

When I see Keane, I see a prospect who has an understanding of how to be a defenseman. Not an offensive defenseman, not a stay-at-home defenseman, not a nasty, physical defenseman, but a guy who has the potential to understand his position and play it well. And I think that's what gives him a shot to leapfrog some people.

 

[nyr2k2]

And that's why I don't think we should view him by the offensive numbers, because it's not his meat and potatoes and there are times I think there's been a misconception that it is.

Keane's strengths are his awareness, his ability to read the play, and his ability to anticipate and get where he needs to be. As a result, that can lead to offense --- which is awesome.

But when you watch Keane, you realize it's that he slipped into the neutral zone to cover for his guy who was pinching (and shouldn't be pinching). It's when you realize that his OHL team could throw him out their on the first pair, or he can slide into a support role on a new team and give them depth.

The other night, I saw him tethered to Mason Geertsen and it perfectly summed up what makes Keane a good prospect, and also why the offensive numbers aren't there. You have a 6'4, 220 pound defenseman who has 7 professional goals, spread out of multiple leagues and six professional seasons, jumping into the play and getting caught in the offensive zone. He has no business doing that once, let alone several times.

Whose hanging back? Joey Keane. Who's breaking up the 2-1 on the other way? And whose doing that at the cost of his own numbers? It's Keane.

When I see Keane, I see a prospect who has an understanding of how to be a defenseman. Not an offensive defenseman, not a stay-at-home defenseman, not a nasty, physical defenseman, but a guy who has the potential to understand his position and play it well. And I think that's what gives him a shot to leapfrog some people.

That's fine, I just brought up the numbers because like how you mentioned you thought people were stat surfing with Jones, people have been doing the same with Keane since we acquired him. I remember he went to London and his numbers dropped and a lot of people--without watching--said, "Oh well he's behind Bouchard and Boqvist ,and Regula is there, so he must be playing a defensive role!" And he wasn't, really. I mean he received less prime opportunities but still saw plenty of ice and got looks on the PP and played for a juggernaut, which always leads to points in the CHL. So that's why I think the same fixation with numbers applies to Keane--people were giddy earlier this year when he was posting big numbers. People like numbers.

Again, Keane is fine. He's chippy, skates well, and is pretty smart. And that's a nice combination of tools, but outside of that I don't see anything stand-out in his game. He's "fine" across the board for me. Like a starting pitcher with one good pitch and three average pitches, though, that can lead you to a nice career. I can't see more than a 4/5 at peak, but even if he's a 6/7, that's fine. I just don't see him as being better than Lindgren who is already there, and I think there's more upside to Rykov (who I don't even like that much). Jones has taken such great strides this year his upside alone just puts him in a different class than the rest of them.

 

[JimmyG89]

Keane's strengths are his awareness, his ability to read the play, and his ability to anticipate and get where he needs to be. As a result, that can lead to offense --- which is awesome.

Getting to watch actual Hartford games this season, it's something that I've seen a lot of from Keane. He doesn't have the offensive abilities of a Fox, DeAngelo or even a Trouba. He's very aware of what the correct play is and he makes it. It works well as a PPQB at the AHL level. I'm not sure he is that kind of guy when he gets to the NHL level.

Very Stralman like in his play. He has some bite to him. Stralman was viewed as a big time offensive player coming up and I think a lot of teams that didn't see this just moved on from him. When that label finally got shed, teams saw him for what he was and he excelled in his new role.

He's more of the puck moving type that'll spring the forwards with a smart play vs setting up his teammates with perfect passes. His defense is a little sloppy right now, but by this time next year, he could be an NHL player, and a solid one at that. Another guy who could profile as a #4 support type defender that could allow an elite talent to do their thing while he is reading them and understanding where to be on the ice because of it.

The more I think about it, if Miller turns pro next season, Keane is probably a really good partner for him.

 

[Kendo]

Joey Keane is going to be one of those guys who doesn't crack the top-10, but has a reasonable chance to play more than 10 years in the NHL and potentially has a career that surpasses at least half-a-dozen guys ranked ahead of him.

I continue to believe he might be out best "value" prospect when considering where he was taken, what's he done (and continues to do), and what he has the potential to do in the future.

The kid is one of the younger players in the NHL, and was just named an all-star in his professional season.

If this kid were taken 40th overall in 2017, and not 88th overall in 2018 as an over-ager, and if we weren't stacked at RD, I think we'd be talking about him a lot more.

Spot on. I liked the Keane pick better than the Lindbom and Ragnarsson picks on draft day.

Seeing him in Hartford, he looks like your classic "2-way guy." The offense is nice, but his consistency and ability to not look out of place in any situation are his calling cards. There's a 2% chance he has a McDonagh-like ascent, a 10% chance he is the next Stralman that happens to put it together at a younger age, and a 50% chance he has a very long NHL career as a solid depth player.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Whose hanging back? Joey Keane. Who's breaking up the 2-1 on the other way? And whose doing that at the cost of his own numbers? It's Keane.

Post game grammar bowl presser

Reporter: Edge, Edge! Can you tell us what your thinking was with your liberal use of "whose, who's"?

Edge: f*** you. That was my thinking

 

[pblawr]

I think he probably suffers a little bit because he's safe.

I love Jones, and there is some intriguing skill there, but I think this board is getting seduced by numbers again --- which the competition catches on, and the flaws tend to be exposed a bit more.

Interesting that you think of Robertson as safe. I'd be interested in your rationale if you care to expand on it. I've come away from watching him with almost the exact opposite view. I think his tools - skating, size, decisionmaking, and puck skills - give him upside that none of our D prospects outside of Miller have. But when I've watched him, he's soft in board battles and his defensive play struck me as kind of lackadaisical. Then on top of that, he doesn't post a ton of points, despite getting tons of ice and power play time. It seems to me like he needs a lot of development to get to the NHL level but his development has struck me as relatively flat so far in the WHL (I think that's part of why he slipped to the Rangers). Would be interested in what you see differently than me, if you don't mind sharing.

 

[Edge]

Interesting that you think of Robertson as safe. I'd be interested in your rationale if you care to expand on it. I've come away from watching him with almost the exact opposite view. I think his tools - skating, size, decisionmaking, and puck skills - give him upside that none of our D prospects outside of Miller have. But when I've watched him, he's soft in board battles and his defensive play struck me as kind of lackadaisical. Then on top of that, he doesn't post a ton of points, despite getting tons of ice and power play time. It seems to me like he needs a lot of development to get to the NHL level but his development has struck me as relatively flat so far in the WHL (I think that's part of why he slipped to the Rangers). Would be interested in what you see differently than me, if you don't mind sharing.

He's not a guy who is every going to put a ton of numbers. He's similar to Marc Staal, pre-injury.

He's a guy who gets the puck out of his zone, gets to his more creative linemates and supports the play. I think he stays in his wheelhouse and does it well.

He doesn't project as a first pairing defenseman, but he's a guy who could someday eat 20 mins a night in the NHL.

I think he covers a surprising amount of ground, which often makes it look like he's lax. He's just not running around that much. He simply breaks up a play, gets the puck where it needs to go, and then goes back to work.

He needs to get stronger, to win those board battles you talk about. But I actually think he's closer to the player he's going to go be than someone like Jones.