Rangers Prospect Poll (Summer 2018): #29 Prospect

[The Crypto Guy]

Ranger's Summer 2018 Prospect Poll

1. Filip Chytil (F) (2017 Draft - 1st round) (66%)
2. Igor Shestyorkin (G) (2014 Draft - 4th round) (59%)
3. Vitali Kravtsov (F) (2018 Draft - 1st round) (52%)
4. Lias Andersson (F) (2017 Draft - 1st round)
5. Libor Hajek (D) (2016 Draft - 2nd round) (44%)
6. Brett Howden (F) (2016 Draft - 1st round) (47%)
7. K'Andre Miller (D) (2018 Draft - 1st round) (55%)
8. Neal Pionk (D) (Undrafted) (56%)
9. Nils Lundkvist (D) (2018 Draft - 1st round) (60%)
10. Ryan Lindgren (D) (2016 Draft - 2nd round) (41%)
11. Alexander Georgiev (G) (Undrafted) (50%)
12. Yegor Rykov (D) (2016 Draft - 5th round)
13. Ty Ronning (F) (2016 Draft - 7th round) (28%)
14. Vinni Lettieri (F) (Undrafted) (28%)
15. Sean Day (D) (2016 Draft - 3rd round) (27%)
16. Ville Meskanen (F) (Undrafted) (32%)
17. Jacob Ragnarsson (D) (2018 Draft - 3rd round) (27%)
18. Morgan Barron (F) (2017 Draft - 6th round) (31%)
19. Patrik Virta (F) (2017 Draft - 7th round) (34%)
20. Michael Lindqvist (F) (Undrafted) (30%)
21. Lauri Pajuniemi (F) (2018 Draft - 5th round) (23%)
22. Cristoval "Boo" Nieves (F) (2012 Draft - 2nd round) (31%)
23. Olof Lindbom (G) (2018 Draft - 2nd Round) (37%)
24. Joey Keane (D) (2018 Draft - 3rd Round) (38%)
25. Adam Huska (G) (2015 Draft - 7th Round) (39%)
26. John Gilmour (D) (2013 Draft - 7th Round) (32%)
27. Tim Gettinger (F) (2016 Draft - 5th round) (39%)
28. Gabriel Fontaine (F) (2016 Draft - 6th round) (42%)

*Anthony DeAngelo played 6 too many NHL games is no longer eligible*

----------------------------------------------​

Added: Hughes


Please post who you want added, eligible prospects that can be added:

Bernhardt, Daniel LW/L
Crawley, Brandon D/L
Fogarty, Steven D/L
Halverson, Brandon G/L
Kjellberg, Simon LW/L
Lakatos, Dominik C/L
Leedahl, Dawson LW/L
Nanne, Tyler D-F/R
Nell, Chris G/L
Pedrie, Vince D/L
Reunanen, Tarmo D/L
Wall, Tyler G/L

Click to read more...

 

[nyr2k2]

Gropp. A bad pick regardless, but he still has good wheels, good size and a great shot. Probably doesn't have the toolbox to put it together, but I give him another year. He'll be 22 all season so he still has time.

My final add is Wall.

 

[Irishguy42]

Sjalin, add Reunanen

 

[eco's bones]

Bigras. Crawley.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Gross, add Leedahl.

 

[NYR Viper]

O'Gara add Crawley

 

[pblawr]

I think Sjalin would be 16th or even 15th on my list. He's one of our youngest prospects at 18, and if you put weight on the advanced stats @ManUtdTobbe has cited and Rob Vollman's work on league equivalency (Re-approaching the methodology of NHLe), Sjalin just performed well in a league that's comparable to the AHL. In my mind that should put him ahead of the 20+ year olds who are still in the AHL or a comparable league, and the 20 year olds who haven't yet made it to the AHL, with only a few obvious exceptions.

Additionally, Sjalin is one of our only prospects who has played on his U20 team, along with just Chytil, Andersson, Kravstov, Howden, Hajek, Rykov, and Lindgren. In fact, outside of Kravstov, I think Sjalin was the youngest of all those guys to play on his U20 team. To be fair, Sjalin did not stand out internationally as much as the other players and I think he should clearly be rated below them, but it seems extreme to me that those guys are all top-12 prospects in our system while Sjalin might not even be in our top 30 as of now.

 

[eco's bones]

It's funny in a way. If you look at guys like Bigras and O'Gara and it's even a little early to be counting out Gropp--they all still have realizable chances to become NHL players. Sjalin, Gross, Hughes, Crawley are at the beginning of the process too and if Wall goes back to playing like he did as a freshman he'll put himself back in the picture.

Which is to say we have a shitload of depth right now and it's not all shabby depth.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Bigras, add Fogarty

 

[eco's bones]

I think Sjalin would be 16th or even 15th on my list. He's one of our youngest prospects at 18, and if you put weight on the advanced stats @ManUtdTobbe has cited and Rob Vollman's work on league equivalency (Re-approaching the methodology of NHLe), Sjalin just performed well in a league that's comparable to the AHL. In my mind that should put him ahead of the 20+ year olds who are still in the AHL or a comparable league, and the 20 year olds who haven't yet made it to the AHL, with only a few obvious exceptions.

Additionally, Sjalin is one of our only prospects who has played on his U20 team, along with just Chytil, Andersson, Kravstov, Howden, Hajek, Rykov, and Lindgren. In fact, outside of Kravstov, I think Sjalin was the youngest of all those guys to play on his U20 team. To be fair, Sjalin did not stand out internationally as much as the other players and I think he should clearly be rated below them, but it seems extreme to me that those guys are all top-12 prospects in our system while Sjalin might not even be in our top 30 as of now.

The Allsvenskan is not very comparable to the AHL in my eyes. Kovacs and Stromwall should be enough to tell you that. Good Allsvenskan players--bad AHL players in the sense anyway that Kovacs was certainly rushed into a league he wasn't ready for. I think Sjalin is an interesting prospect but it would be a much better comparable for the SHL to the AHL. Lias put up 14 points in 22 SHL games and 14 points in 25 AHL games--just as an example.

 

[Let Blaine Die]

Bigras.

Add Wall.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think Sjalin would be 16th or even 15th on my list. He's one of our youngest prospects at 18, and if you put weight on the advanced stats @ManUtdTobbe has cited and Rob Vollman's work on league equivalency (Re-approaching the methodology of NHLe), Sjalin just performed well in a league that's comparable to the AHL. In my mind that should put him ahead of the 20+ year olds who are still in the AHL or a comparable league, and the 20 year olds who haven't yet made it to the AHL, with only a few obvious exceptions.

Additionally, Sjalin is one of our only prospects who has played on his U20 team, along with just Chytil, Andersson, Kravstov, Howden, Hajek, Rykov, and Lindgren. In fact, outside of Kravstov, I think Sjalin was the youngest of all those guys to play on his U20 team. To be fair, Sjalin did not stand out internationally as much as the other players and I think he should clearly be rated below them, but it seems extreme to me that those guys are all top-12 prospects in our system while Sjalin might not even be in our top 30 as of now.

He may be too low, but he really only played half of his games in Allsvenskan last year. I know the stats say he played 24 games but if you go look at the box scores, a lot of games he was listed as the 7th D and didn't play, but they count that as a game played in the GP column. Same as Reunanen in Liiga--when he was with TPS he didn't really play in 25 games--probably more like 18. The rest of Sjalin's games were in the J20, which according to those league factors would be equivalent to the QMJHL. And then he was also an outright scratch a bunch of times with the Allsvenskan club.

At this point I think that really nice start he got off to could be small sample bias. I mean those numbers he posted were off the charts. It's hard for me to believe his Allsvenskan team wouldn't play him more, and he wouldn't get more NT consideration, if he really was that dominating out there. I'd like to see him stick with the Allsvenskan club for a full season and maybe get some additional looks on the NT before I consider him a serious prospect. Otherwise he's intriguing, but still a fringe-guy.

Not saying you're wrong--I understand why you feel the way you do. I just followed Sjalin pretty closely after Tobbe initially reported on his Corsi (or goals for/against, whatever it was), and the totality of his season ended up really kind of disappointing me. We'll see.

 

[pblawr]

The Allsvenskan is not very comparable to the AHL in my eyes. Kovacs and Stromwall should be enough to tell you that. Good Allsvenskan players--bad AHL players in the sense anyway that Kovacs was certainly rushed into a league he wasn't ready for. I think Sjalin is an interesting prospect but it would be a much better comparable for the SHL to the AHL. Lias put up 14 points in 22 SHL games and 14 points in 25 AHL games--just as an example.

Yeah, Kovacs and Stromwall did not work out well. There are examples of players who did better in the AHL than the Allsvenskan too though. For example, Pastrnak scored 0.66 ppg in the Allsvenskan and then scored over a ppg in the AHL. Vollman uses a broad sample of players, instead of just a couple guys, and even though his work isn't perfect, I think it's probably the best reference for league comparability that there is. There's certainly a margin for error and I don't want to go down the league ranking rabbit hole, but I don't think there should be any disagreement with the general idea that the Allsvenskan is a legitimate pro league that is substantially more difficult than any junior league.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Bigras, add Wall.

Assuming Bigras takes this one (he was 2nd last poll), my final vote would probably go to O'Gara. He'll probably look much better in a system that doesn't immediately expose players with below average foot speed.

I still can't get over how much deeper our prospect pool is in just a year's time. Gorton has done a great job of bringing in prospects and picks. Even at this late stage, we're still ranking players that could give us meaningful minutes in the not-too-distant future.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah, Kovacs and Stromwall did not work out well. There are examples of players who did better in the AHL than the Allsvenskan too though. For example, Pastrnak scored 0.66 ppg in the Allsvenskan and then scored over a ppg in the AHL. Vollman uses a broad sample of players, instead of just a couple guys, and even though his work isn't perfect, I think it's probably the best reference for league comparability that there is. There's certainly a margin for error and I don't want to go down the league ranking rabbit hole, but I don't think there should be any disagreement with the general idea that the Allsvenskan is a legitimate pro league that is substantially more difficult than any junior league.

I definitely agree here. If Sjalin can stick in the Allsvenskan and play well, I'll be moving him up my list in the mid-season poll for sure.

 

[pblawr]

He may be too low, but he really only played half of his games in Allsvenskan last year. I know the stats say he played 24 games but if you go look at the box scores, a lot of games he was listed as the 7th D and didn't play, but they count that as a game played in the GP column. Same as Reunanen in Liiga--when he was with TPS he didn't really play in 25 games--probably more like 18. The rest of Sjalin's games were in the J20, which according to those league factors would be equivalent to the QMJHL. And then he was also an outright scratch a bunch of times with the Allsvenskan club.

At this point I think that really nice start he got off to could be small sample bias. I mean those numbers he posted were off the charts. It's hard for me to believe his Allsvenskan team wouldn't play him more, and he wouldn't get more NT consideration, if he really was that dominating out there. I'd like to see him stick with the Allsvenskan club for a full season and maybe get some additional looks on the NT before I consider him a serious prospect. Otherwise he's intriguing, but still a fringe-guy.

Not saying you're wrong--I understand why you feel the way you do. I just followed Sjalin pretty closely after Tobbe initially reported on his Corsi (or goals for/against, whatever it was), and the totality of his season ended up really kind of disappointing me. We'll see.

Those are all fair points and I think your critique is very well thought out. I do think his injury might have accounted for some of the drop off he had after the good start, and to the extent that's true, I think it would validate the good start relative to his post-injury struggles a little bit, but I think all your points are legitimate. I'm not saying he's one of our top prospects, but there's evidence that he did well in a legitimate pro league at 18 (despite some inconsistency) and that's reinforced by him getting some attention from Sweden's U20 team. In my mind, that's enough to put him ahead of the reclamation projects, most of the guys who still have to prove they can play in a pro league, and the guys whose upside is becoming a bottom line player.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The Allsvenskan is not very comparable to the AHL in my eyes. Kovacs and Stromwall should be enough to tell you that. Good Allsvenskan players--bad AHL players in the sense anyway that Kovacs was certainly rushed into a league he wasn't ready for. I think Sjalin is an interesting prospect but it would be a much better comparable for the SHL to the AHL. Lias put up 14 points in 22 SHL games and 14 points in 25 AHL games--just as an example.

Yep. The AHL is . . . substantially better than the Allsvenskan. They are really not comparable leagues.

 

[Don Chytil]

Gross, add Kjellberg

If you're adding Hughes over Kjellberg you're stating either:

A) you know more than Rangers org

B) the Rangers org threw away a 6th round pick on nepotism. And for all the flaws this organization has, can't imagine they'd value their relationship with Kjellberg's dad over the value of a 6th round pick. Think it's laughable that some of you are suggesting that's the case.

 

[nyr2k2]

Gross, add Kjellberg

If you're adding Hughes over Kjellberg you're stating either:

A) you know more than Rangers org

B) the Rangers org threw away a 6th round pick on nepotism. And for all the flaws this organization has, can't imagine they'd value their relationship with Kjellberg's dad over the value of a 6th round pick. Think it's laughable that some of you are suggesting that's the case.

I voted for Ragnarsson, Pajuniemi and Keane ahead of Lindbom. So what?

I remember voting for both Buchnevich and Duclair ahead of Tambellini. Guess I knew more than the Rangers there.

If we're just gonna order the 2018 guys by where they were picked, what's the point? Literally no draft service had Kjellberg on their map. Everyone had Hughes ranked. Picking the latter over the former doesn't mean you think you "know more" than the Rangers.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Add Wall.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hughes, add Wall.

Wall had a stretch of bad games, and then never really got a chance to regain his spot after that. He was good in his freshman season. His team was dumb for not sticking with him.

 

[kovazub94]

O'Gara add Crawley

Same.

 

[Edge]

Went with Bigras based on where he was pre-concussion, and how strong he looked after going to Hartford.

If his time in Hartford is any indication, he's got a legit fighting chance. But the concussions and their impact on his play for the past two years has to be taken into account.

I don't have any adds at this point. Gropp will be my number 30 prospect.

 

[nyr2k2]

Hughes, add Wall.

Wall had a stretch of bad games, and then never really got a chance to regain his spot after that. He was good in his freshman season. His team was dumb for not sticking with him.

His first six starts, he was pulled three times and had a 5.71 GAA and .823 SV%. There was literally no way UML could stick with him.

He was given another shot, where he started 3 of 5 games in January and played well. Then against BC he was pulled after allowing 4 goals in 27 minutes. He got two more starts after that, both of which went okay.

The guy UML was "dumb" to turn to finished with a 2.08 GAA and .921 SV%. UML is trying to win hockey games, not develop our prospects.

That said, I also voted to add Wall, because he was so terrible last season after being very good the year prior, it leads me to believe there was something physically or emotionally off with the kid last year. He'll be in a competition this year--hopefully he take the bull by the horns. UML has 4 goalies: 2 seniors, Wall, and a fairly well-regarded local kid that just enrolled.

 

[Don Chytil]

I voted for Ragnarsson, Pajuniemi and Keane ahead of Lindbom. So what?

I remember voting for both Buchnevich and Duclair ahead of Tambellini. Guess I knew more than the Rangers there.

If we're just gonna order the 2018 guys by where they were picked, what's the point? Literally no draft service had Kjellberg on their map. Everyone had Hughes ranked. Picking the latter over the former doesn't mean you think you "know more" than the Rangers.

I think the difference is that some of us had seen Buch, Duke, and/or Tambo. I don't think (maybe I'm wrong) that anyone here has ever watched Hughes or Kjellberg.

Most of those draft services also had Chytil outside of the 1st Round.. in cases where I haven't seen a player, I'll trust the Rangers organization over "draft services".