Series Talk: R1 (2025): Vegas (1st Pacific) vs Wild (WC1) | Series Tied 1-1

[Minnewildsota]

Damn. I'm gonna have to spend A LOT of time in the woods at night playing with my "dolls."

I got arrested the last time I did that

 

[Minnewildsota]

Did the player comparison on Natural Stat Trick where it splits the stats for multi-team players. The underlying metrics for both, when used on the same team in the same role, point to Brazeau being better than Khusnutdinov at basically everything.

Crazy.

Get out of here with your facts.
We don't take kindly to them in these here parts. Yeehaw.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Think that speaks to how utterly useless Brazeau is on the ice. But I can try to commit to talking about the Nyquist trade more too, you're right.

As utterly useless as Khusnutdinov. Totally agree.

fans were screaming about how bad Nyquist was this season. It was written on the wall in bold letters. So my question is, how the hell did our scouts and BG not see it? The same with Brazeau.....it was obvious the kind of player we were getting. If the fans can see the obvious, how could the front office make such huge blunders?

They did see it with Nyquist. Russo wrote about it. Something something “they know what kind of player he is”…

 

[AKL]

As utterly useless as Khusnutdinov. Totally agree.

Maybe. And more utterly useless than the rest of the bottom six and Ohgren too.

So I think we've established the hierarchy now, and Brazeau is definitely not in the top 13.

 

[NHL1674]

As utterly useless as Khusnutdinov. Totally agree.

They did see it with Nyquist. Russo wrote about it. Something something “they know what kind of player he is”…

Even more reason to fire them.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Nyquist was an adult in the room while missing a couple key forwards. Was that worth a 2nd round pick? We'll find out over the next couple of weeks.

 

[AKL]

So anyway back to the playoffs...

Jon Merrill had 6 points in 70 games this season. IF it's true that Zeev is going to start game 1 and be on the top PP unit, what would you be willing to bet that Zeev has 6 points just in this series?

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Maybe. And more utterly useless than the rest of the bottom six and Ohgren too.

So I think we've established the hierarchy now, and Brazeau is definitely not in the top 13.

What do you think my point or argument is? It sure seems to be conflated with thinking Brazeau doesn’t suck, which I never said or argued.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Nyquist was an adult in the room while missing a couple key forwards. Was that worth a 2nd round pick? We'll find out over the next couple of weeks.

No need to wait, the answer is no.

 

[AKL]

What do you think my point or argument is?

Not really sure because first you said singling out Brazeau is weird, which it isn't. Then you insinuated...something...by mentioning stats that say Brazeau is better than Gaudreau, which we know he isn't. Then you brought up Khusnutdinov again, which doesn't make any sense because he's not even an option to play over or under Brazeau or anywhere else in the lineup. So to be honest I wasn't sure you even had an overarching point or argument, so I was just responding to the things you were saying as standalone thoughts.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

No need to wait, the answer is no.

There's no actual benefit to jumping on the gun. I'll wait for the playoffs to be over.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I mean, people wanted Freddie shot of out a cannon and into the sun last year. While this year he's basically held the team together (a little hyperbole) when Kap and Ek were out.

Moral of the story: Wait to see what happens.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

No need to wait, the answer is no.

hey this could be the year he figures out how to perform in the playoffs

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

hey this could be the year he figures out how to perform in the playoffs

3 of his last 4 playoffs, including 1 with us, have been pretty decent.

 

[AKL]

hey this could be the year he figures out how to perform in the playoffs

This could be said about most of our roster tbh

 

[Saga of the Elk]

3 of his last 4 playoffs, including 1 with us, have been pretty decent.

Yeah I don't personally think giving up a 2nd for a veteran like Nyquist is a big problem. Does he really move the needle against a team like Vegas? Maybe not, but you need guys who can hold the puck and make a pass and he and Johansson can both do a little of that.

 

[AKL]

Hartman has 10 points in his last 11 playoff games with us, I'd strongly consider moving him to the top six.

Only issue is that with the Brazeau trade, we moved our utterly useless fourth liner from center to wing, so we'd have no one left to replace Hartman. Call that another reason that trade sucked I guess.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Not really sure because first you said singling out Brazeau is weird, which it isn't. Then you insinuated...something...by mentioning stats that say Brazeau is better than Gaudreau, which we know he isn't. Then you brought up Khusnutdinov again, which doesn't make any sense because he's not even an option to play over or under Brazeau or anywhere else in the lineup. So to be honest I wasn't sure you even had an overarching point or argument, so I was just responding to the things you were saying as standalone thoughts.

Ohgren is better than all but one winger in the bottom 6. That poster singling out Brazeau is just another way for them to complain about the trade and how Guerin only cares about size. We traded trash out and got trash in return. We traded 3 $1 bills (Khus, Lauko, 6th) for a mystery dollar (Braz) that we hoped was a $5 bill but was just another $1 bill. In the grand scheme of things this trade is irrelevant and a gamble a decent amount of teams might make. Most of the time it won’t work out, but sometimes it does. It’s a gamble without risking much. However, trading a $20 bill (2nd) for a worn out $5 bill (Nyquist) was much worse asset management. Nyquist has 2 more 5v5 points than Brazeau since March 7th and he wasn’t hamstrung with Trenin and Shore as his linemates, yet he cost WAY more in value to acquire. You wanna know my theory why nobody complains about Nyquist as constantly and obnoxiously as they do with Brazeau? It doesn’t fit the Guerin only cares about size narrative that everyone seems to have hardwired into their head.

I did get sidetracked by stats re: Gaudreau. Thought it was interesting that he was last on the team in almost every underlying metric.

 

[AKL]

Ohgren is better than all but one winger in the bottom 6. That poster singling out Brazeau is just another way for them to complain about the trade and how Guerin only cares about size. We traded trash out and got trash in return. We traded 3 $1 bills (Khus, Lauko, 6th) for a mystery dollar (Braz) that we hoped was a $5 bill but was just another $1 bill. In the grand scheme of things this trade is irrelevant and a gamble a decent amount of teams might make. Most of the time it won’t work out, but sometimes it does. It’s a gamble without risking much. However, trading a $20 bill (2nd) for a worn out $5 bill (Nyquist) was much worse asset management. Nyquist has 2 more 5v5 points than Brazeau since March 7th and he wasn’t hamstrung with Trenin and Shore as his linemates, yet he cost WAY more in value to acquire. You wanna know my theory why nobody complains about Nyquist as constantly and obnoxiously as they do with Brazeau? It doesn’t fit the Guerin only cares about size narrative that everyone seems to have hardwired into their head.

I did get sidetracked by stats re: Gaudreau. Thought it was interesting that he was last on the team in almost every underlying metric.

I did specifically call out Nyquist in this post:

I would include Nyquist in the maybes too, haven't been a fan of his this time around

But I still maintain that singling out Brazeau isn't that weird because he still the worst of the bottom six and Ohgren can only replace one guy. If we swapped out Nyquist for Ohgren, I'd still want to swap out Brazeau for Nyquist.

Both trades were bad, we definitely gave up way more to get Nyquist than we did to get Brazeau, and Nyquist isn't way better, but he's still definitely better.

And my overarching point is Guerin does a lot of bad things and not as many good things.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Hartman has 10 points in his last 11 playoff games with us, I'd strongly consider moving him to the top six.

I wouldn’t.

 

[DemidovSaveUs]

Fire Guerin and the pro scouts

I don’t really know where I end up on Guerin, but for the sake of conversation, I think he’s done a pretty good job with his contracts and pro scouting. Most teams have a Trenin deal or a Nyquist trade out there, but there’s been tons of good moves in there as well and it’s not like he’s had a ton of flexibility.

 

[AKL]

I don’t really know where I end up on Guerin, but for the sake of conversation, I think he’s done a pretty good job with his contracts and pro scouting. Most teams have a Trenin deal or a Nyquist trade out there, but there’s been tons of good moves in there as well and it’s not like he’s had a ton of flexibility.

He's done some good things, I won't deny that. But based on the body of work, I don't see him being able to build an actual contender. I also look at it like this. He's been here for 6 years and hasn't moved the needle at all, and the only reason the team is marginally better than it was under Fletcher is because of a Fletcher draft pick that's carrying the load.

Fletcher got 9 years here, Guerin is at 6. Can Guerin accomplish more than Fletcher ever did in the next three years? I'm not sure.

A lot of it is going to depend on if Kaprizov re-signs. But if Kaprizov leaves, Guerin has done a much worse job building a team than Fletcher did.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I did specifically call out Nyquist in this post:


But I still maintain that singling out Brazeau isn't that weird because he still the worst of the bottom six and Ohgren can only replace one guy. If we swapped out Nyquist for Ohgren, I'd still want to swap out Brazeau for Nyquist.

Both trades were bad, we definitely gave up way more to get Nyquist than we did to get Brazeau, and Nyquist isn't way better, but he's still definitely better.

And my overarching point is Guerin does a lot of bad things and not as many good things.

For me, this is problematic reasoning to not complain about the Nyquist trade as much or more than the Brazeau trade. This can continue up the lineup to show how devastating it could become if that was applied. 1st for Nelson, whom is substantially better than Nyquist. Hell, maybe offersheet Knies in the four 1st round picks range. Knies is better than Nelson whom is better than Nyquist whom is better than Brazeau.

I just refuse to complain about the Brazeau trade when the pieces involved were of such little value in the grand scheme of things.

 

[AKL]

For me, this is problematic reasoning to not complain about the Nyquist trade as much or more than the Brazeau trade.

Like I said, I'll complain about the Nyquist trade more too from here on out. At the time I wasn't as upset about it because Nyquist at least had a history, including a history here, of being worth that value. Obviously he was having a down year in Nashville, and that probably should have been a yellow flag to the pro scouts to look into it more, but I also can't totally fault them because everyone on Nashville was having a down year, so thinking he could rebound a little bit by getting out of there wasn't out of line.

In hindsight, it was definitely bad value, I agree. Fire Guerin.

 

[AKL]

And frankly, the Brazeau trade, despite featuring more inconsequential pieces overall, was very clearly more lopsided value not in our favor from the moment it was announced. The Nyquist trade was, as you called something somewhat recently, "a swing and a miss", but the Brazeau trade was never a good gamble by us.