HF Habs: Quebec Hockey
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Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
I'll chime in with my unscientific observations. I can think of two reasons.
1) Quebecers are going into other fields. Short track speed skating and American football are two big draws. And something tells me soccer is another sport that has begun to draw kids away from hockey too.
2) Although Quebec is not drawing proportionally as many immigrants as Ontario, B.C and some of the Western provinces, it still has a big immigrant population. I find it takes that section of the population two or three generations to build an interest and a financial base to commit to the sport. Look at Ontario. They have a much bigger population and a larger percentage of immigrants yet the players coming out of the OHL are mostly 2nd & 3rd generation Canucks. I'm not saying all but most.
I'm sure there are other reasons but those are two that appear to be the most important.
1) Quebecers are going into other fields. Short track speed skating and American football are two big draws. And something tells me soccer is another sport that has begun to draw kids away from hockey too.
2) Although Quebec is not drawing proportionally as many immigrants as Ontario, B.C and some of the Western provinces, it still has a big immigrant population. I find it takes that section of the population two or three generations to build an interest and a financial base to commit to the sport. Look at Ontario. They have a much bigger population and a larger percentage of immigrants yet the players coming out of the OHL are mostly 2nd & 3rd generation Canucks. I'm not saying all but most.
I'm sure there are other reasons but those are two that appear to be the most important.
A QC team from the 90's could of had
Lemiux/Turgeon/Damphouse/Lecavilier/Robitaille/Richer/C.Lemiuex/Carbanoue/Gilbert Dionne/Juneau/Mellanby/Hogue/Brunet on it upfront. Add in a few tough guys like Stock/Momesso/Odjik/Dineen.
The D would have Bourque/Quintal/Brisbois/Duschene/Desjardins/Daigneault/Galley and of course the great Marc Bergevin
.
And in nets Roy/Brodeur/Potvin/Thibeault/Theo/Fiset.
That's a strong enough team to probably have beaten a few countries.
Compare that to a roster of QC guys from 2010-2017.
Lemiux/Turgeon/Damphouse/Lecavilier/Robitaille/Richer/C.Lemiuex/Carbanoue/Gilbert Dionne/Juneau/Mellanby/Hogue/Brunet on it upfront. Add in a few tough guys like Stock/Momesso/Odjik/Dineen.
The D would have Bourque/Quintal/Brisbois/Duschene/Desjardins/Daigneault/Galley and of course the great Marc Bergevin
.And in nets Roy/Brodeur/Potvin/Thibeault/Theo/Fiset.
That's a strong enough team to probably have beaten a few countries.
Compare that to a roster of QC guys from 2010-2017.
Adamcrazy3
Registered User
Might have to do with the fact that the HABS have been irrelevant for the past 25 years.
Tabarouette
ben kin
on top of what everyone mentionned, the NHL was filled with people from like 3 countries back in the days, now we're competing with talents from everywhere
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Hockeys an expensive sport to play. We have a small population, and the Q sucks.
Habs
It's going to be a long year
- Feb 28, 2002
- 22,957
- 17,824
Probably a combo of a lot of things. I pulled my kids out of hockey after age 12, because I worry about hits to the head and put them in other sports instead. So tired of the 6am's, the hockey parents, don't miss it one bit.
You can lay some of the blame Hockey Canada and their rules regarding player transfers.
I live in a small town in Quebec right on the border of Ontario. Our assossiation plays against teams in Ontario because the travel time would be insane to try and play within the Quebec league. The area is all small towns seperated by large distances.
My son is at least a AA player and a bubble AAA. Could develop into a great AAA with some time on competitive teams. Yet he can't get a release to play in Ontario, where the AA and AAA teams are. Because we are the "basin" for a Quebec city that's about 3 hours away. So, instead of trying out for, and eventually playing for a competitive team that's 40 mins away (in Ontario) , he would have to play for a team that's 3 hours away (in Quebec). Which means he would have to move (he's 11 years old).
Not gonna happen. I would never send my kid away to strangers at such a young age. So, he languishes in house league hockey where he stands out as a super star but hates the fact that no team mate can keep up to the play or handle a pass he gives or give a good pass.
My son loves this sport so much. He has been weight training for a year now and runs almost everyday. This summer he kept bugging me to get into more and more hockey schools (had more ice time in summer hockey schools than during the actual hockey season lol). It got so bad that I had to sit down with him and try to see if he was feeling pressured (by me or his mom) to be the best or whatever. Nope. He really, really loves hockey and wants to be as good as possble. I even told him I'm ok with him quittting hockey and just Olympic lifting (that's his weight training) or even quiting both. He answered he does that and runs all for hockey. To be stronger and have more stamina.
Totally dedicacted to hockey. He has the drive, the skill and is super fast on skates. I make enough money that AAA hockey fees wouldn't even be an issue. And yet we can't get a release to play nearby because we "belong" to the competitive teams that are hours away. Screw you Hockey Canada. My son will eventually get tired of house league hockey and go on to do well in another sport. I can't wait for that day.
I'm not saying he would make the NHL or even the junior leagues later on. But he is just one of many great young players, who are dedicated to hockey but can't get a chance to play competitively.
I live in a small town in Quebec right on the border of Ontario. Our assossiation plays against teams in Ontario because the travel time would be insane to try and play within the Quebec league. The area is all small towns seperated by large distances.
My son is at least a AA player and a bubble AAA. Could develop into a great AAA with some time on competitive teams. Yet he can't get a release to play in Ontario, where the AA and AAA teams are. Because we are the "basin" for a Quebec city that's about 3 hours away. So, instead of trying out for, and eventually playing for a competitive team that's 40 mins away (in Ontario) , he would have to play for a team that's 3 hours away (in Quebec). Which means he would have to move (he's 11 years old).
Not gonna happen. I would never send my kid away to strangers at such a young age. So, he languishes in house league hockey where he stands out as a super star but hates the fact that no team mate can keep up to the play or handle a pass he gives or give a good pass.
My son loves this sport so much. He has been weight training for a year now and runs almost everyday. This summer he kept bugging me to get into more and more hockey schools (had more ice time in summer hockey schools than during the actual hockey season lol). It got so bad that I had to sit down with him and try to see if he was feeling pressured (by me or his mom) to be the best or whatever. Nope. He really, really loves hockey and wants to be as good as possble. I even told him I'm ok with him quittting hockey and just Olympic lifting (that's his weight training) or even quiting both. He answered he does that and runs all for hockey. To be stronger and have more stamina.
Totally dedicacted to hockey. He has the drive, the skill and is super fast on skates. I make enough money that AAA hockey fees wouldn't even be an issue. And yet we can't get a release to play nearby because we "belong" to the competitive teams that are hours away. Screw you Hockey Canada. My son will eventually get tired of house league hockey and go on to do well in another sport. I can't wait for that day.
I'm not saying he would make the NHL or even the junior leagues later on. But he is just one of many great young players, who are dedicated to hockey but can't get a chance to play competitively.
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
There's been a greater emphasis on the dangers of contact sports in Quebec, compared to the rest of Canada for many years now. This has led to a lesser pool of players and those who make it are a little less prepared to the physical side of pro hockey.
Hockey Canada is doing a great job of developing players and coaches throughout Canada... except in Quebec. It's an anglophone boys club and terribly unwelcoming to French Canadians.
A lof of fans and observers in Quebec could never get behind with the rise of defensive systems in the 80s. They just couldn't reconcile with the loss of "flying frenchmsen" style of hockey. The trap was perfected in the 90s (ironically, by a Quebecer). 1995 is regarded as the psychological turning point when it became accepted this was the winning NHL strategy. Three years later, we saw the peak as far as Québécois being picked in the NHL 1998 draft.
And yes, as many others have said, hockey is now a worldwide sport. If the drop in anglo-Canadians is not as noticeable, it's only because one of the new hockey power, the USA, share the same anglo-saxon last names.
Hockey Canada is doing a great job of developing players and coaches throughout Canada... except in Quebec. It's an anglophone boys club and terribly unwelcoming to French Canadians.
A lof of fans and observers in Quebec could never get behind with the rise of defensive systems in the 80s. They just couldn't reconcile with the loss of "flying frenchmsen" style of hockey. The trap was perfected in the 90s (ironically, by a Quebecer). 1995 is regarded as the psychological turning point when it became accepted this was the winning NHL strategy. Three years later, we saw the peak as far as Québécois being picked in the NHL 1998 draft.
And yes, as many others have said, hockey is now a worldwide sport. If the drop in anglo-Canadians is not as noticeable, it's only because one of the new hockey power, the USA, share the same anglo-saxon last names.
QuebecPride
Registered User
I think a lot of the blame has to go towards Hockey Québec. Terribly managed and way too conservative.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Yeah, but Molson has french canadian GMs and coaches. He's doing enough for the hockey population of Quebec.
Nothing to see here! The Montreal Canadiens is doing the MAXIMUM it can do for hockey in Quebec.
Nothing to see here! The Montreal Canadiens is doing the MAXIMUM it can do for hockey in Quebec.
Masao
Registered User
The death of Quebec hockey will happen when people no longer play hockey in Quebec.
That's not about to happen.
That's not about to happen.
Tabarouette
ben kin
I get your agenda and i'm usually on your side but Molson owns a private company in the Canadiens, it's not his job to fix Hockey Quebec and Hockey Canada. His job is to make profit and he's doing that just fine
I can't speak for Hockey Quebec, but the Ontario Minor Hockey Association is rather well run from my perspective as a parent, coach and trainer. My own organization (which operates within the OMHA) is very open and welcoming to all cultures as well, and it would only help in increasing the overall pool of players.
Ultimately though, I think it does have a lot to do with pure numbers (along with what was mostly covered already by others). I read the chances are 1/4000 roughly of making the NHL. I don't know the total enrollment of any of the organizations, but the general population of Ontario is so much bigger than Quebec. Factor in the rest of Canada, ALL of the United States and the REST of the world, that is a big pool to choose from.
That said, Drouin is a standout from Quebec in the last 5 years. He isn't a Quebecer, but MacKinnon was developed in the Q. So, just looking at the top-3 last 5 years:
2013 - 2 QMJHL (MacKinnon is from Halifax), 1 overseas
2014 - 2 WHL, 1 OHL
2015 - 2 OHL, 1 USA
2016 - 1 QMJHL, 2 overseas, though Matthews is American
2017 - 1 QMJHL (though Hischier isn't a Quebecer), 1 WHL and 1 overseas
Yes, I understand the article is about native to Quebec, but 4 of the last 15 top-3 were playing in the Q.
Ultimately though, I think it does have a lot to do with pure numbers (along with what was mostly covered already by others). I read the chances are 1/4000 roughly of making the NHL. I don't know the total enrollment of any of the organizations, but the general population of Ontario is so much bigger than Quebec. Factor in the rest of Canada, ALL of the United States and the REST of the world, that is a big pool to choose from.
That said, Drouin is a standout from Quebec in the last 5 years. He isn't a Quebecer, but MacKinnon was developed in the Q. So, just looking at the top-3 last 5 years:
2013 - 2 QMJHL (MacKinnon is from Halifax), 1 overseas
2014 - 2 WHL, 1 OHL
2015 - 2 OHL, 1 USA
2016 - 1 QMJHL, 2 overseas, though Matthews is American
2017 - 1 QMJHL (though Hischier isn't a Quebecer), 1 WHL and 1 overseas
Yes, I understand the article is about native to Quebec, but 4 of the last 15 top-3 were playing in the Q.
OldCraig71
Juice Arse
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
I think population numbers could be a factor, but look at the lack of high end talent.
I made a list with a 90's team of QC players. Compare that to what we have today and its almost night and day. In the 90's some of the best at their position were from QC. Lemiuex/Bourque/Robitallie/Roy/Brodeur. That would be a powerhouse C/W/D/G combo.
Are the talented kids just going elsewhere or is Hockey Quebec not up to snuff compared to the rest of Canada (and the world)?
Vlad mentioned the peak being in the mid/late 90's and not being able to adapt to more defensive systems and getting away from the "flying Frenchmen" style. I think there may be something to it.
I made a list with a 90's team of QC players. Compare that to what we have today and its almost night and day. In the 90's some of the best at their position were from QC. Lemiuex/Bourque/Robitallie/Roy/Brodeur. That would be a powerhouse C/W/D/G combo.
Are the talented kids just going elsewhere or is Hockey Quebec not up to snuff compared to the rest of Canada (and the world)?
Vlad mentioned the peak being in the mid/late 90's and not being able to adapt to more defensive systems and getting away from the "flying Frenchmen" style. I think there may be something to it.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
- 10,536
- 9,974
I think the loss of the Nordiques has had an effect. I was surprised at the disinterest in hockey in la vieille capitale when I visited this spring. The younger generation has no memory of the Vendredi Saint massacre. The Canadiens lean years didn't help either.
I agree with the assessment of the Q. When Nikolaj Ehlers was drafted by the Jets, the management thought it would stunt his development to go back to the Q as a 19 year old, so they kept him on the team. I am not sure why that is, as several good coaches have come out of the Q.
One particular change is there are no longer elite goalies coming out of Québec, or many for that matter. Finland caught up with a focus on coaching and there has not been a Patrick Roy protege since Théodore .
Violence is probably significant, as the awareness of trauma is studied. I am sure cost is a factor too, I worked with a guy who put his two kids through Junior A, with W tryouts, and it took a lot of sacrifice on his part just to get to that point. Soccer is a lot easier on the wallet and nerves of hockey parents.
I agree with the assessment of the Q. When Nikolaj Ehlers was drafted by the Jets, the management thought it would stunt his development to go back to the Q as a 19 year old, so they kept him on the team. I am not sure why that is, as several good coaches have come out of the Q.
One particular change is there are no longer elite goalies coming out of Québec, or many for that matter. Finland caught up with a focus on coaching and there has not been a Patrick Roy protege since Théodore .
Violence is probably significant, as the awareness of trauma is studied. I am sure cost is a factor too, I worked with a guy who put his two kids through Junior A, with W tryouts, and it took a lot of sacrifice on his part just to get to that point. Soccer is a lot easier on the wallet and nerves of hockey parents.
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
HuGort
Registered User
I imagine kids grow up today without the Habs as idols. Wasn't the case up until 20 years ago.
Tabarouette
ben kin
Hockey in QC has been declining for many years no thanks to Hockey Quebec, politics, and $$. I have seen many times where the wealthy buy there way into the AAA teams, average player named Smith will never get selected if competeing against an average player named Fortin. This is reality which has gone on for years and have turned off alot of parents and kids from high level hockey.
And no matter what hockey QC says, they do not care about schooling, period.
For the past 5 years or so, the majority of the talented kids are leaving to the US and Hockey QC has done absolultey nothing to ask why they are leaving.
My last rant - if Hockey Canada actually cared about hockey, they would be promoting the hell out of our University hockey program in order for kids to stay hear and not go into Div 1 schools. At the end of the season, make a big splash by televisin the playoff winner of Canada playing the winner of the Frozen 4.
And no matter what hockey QC says, they do not care about schooling, period.
For the past 5 years or so, the majority of the talented kids are leaving to the US and Hockey QC has done absolultey nothing to ask why they are leaving.
My last rant - if Hockey Canada actually cared about hockey, they would be promoting the hell out of our University hockey program in order for kids to stay hear and not go into Div 1 schools. At the end of the season, make a big splash by televisin the playoff winner of Canada playing the winner of the Frozen 4.
JJ68
Registered User
- Oct 5, 2017
- 1,351
- 1,136
small population? not really. We're second to Ontario. There are provinces far smaller still producing.
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