Proper use of ankles in skating

[theGoose]

Like the title says.

But I would like to know how (Intermidiate>advanced) skaters use there ankles in a side-to-side movement to get the most out of there skating.

You hear lots of talk about proper ankle use/motion in skating, but most of it is focused on forward flex. Not much is mentioned about lateral movement of the ankle to better your skating (Mohawks, crossovers, tight turns, etc )

Could one be slowing or even hindering what they can do in a pair of skates by not using there ankles laterally?

 

[Gamble9]

I wouldn't experiment in moving your ankles side to side while trying to apply force through them sounds like a really good way to hurt yourself I move my toes up or down depending on skate angle to get the most of my blade on the ice but I'll admit no one ever taught me to do this and it could do nothing at all ...

 

[TheRedShadow]

Edge control? You'll flex your ankles to get onto edges, but like the guy says, you can't put max force through a bent ankle.

 

[sanityplease]

Like the title says.

But I would like to know how (Intermidiate>advanced) skaters use there ankles in a side-to-side movement to get the most out of there skating.

Minimal. Your lateral edge control is primarily achieved by transferring your weight & joint movement from your core to knees with forward/backwards ankle flex, not bending your ankles sideways.

 

[theGoose]

From Robby Glantz proper edge use article: "To maximize grip and control in the ice, you will want to roll your skate boot (at the ankles) at least halfway to the ice, creating a skate that is on at least a 45°*angle (halfway to the ice).* As you improve and get more confidence, you will be able to push the angle of the edge to even more extremes"

The reason I brought this up for discussion is 1, there seams to be lots of paranoia on forum of using ankles laterally in skates and 2, because I just went from a reletivly soft skate to a pretty stiff skate and wanted to share my experience. I obviously noticed that the new skate is faster,lighter, more responsive, etc. but made it more challenging to use laterally.

The skate still lots of forward flex for a nice full stride, but since the boot is stiff it made me work harder for my edge in turns, crossovers, mohawks. I'm not Bure or Federov on my skates but near the top of the list in most teams I play (Canada) in. if these skates made it harder for me to use my outside edges (while more stable and responsive) than a soft boot. how many skaters in overly stiff skates are never really going to achieve the level of skating they desire?

I don't mean rolling your ankle in ways to the point of injury. In my opinion some "rolling" of the ankle is necessary for optimum results while on the outside edges.

 

[sanityplease]

From Robby Glantz proper edge use article: "To maximize grip and control in the ice, you will want to roll your skate boot (at the ankles) at least halfway to the ice, creating a skate that is on at least a 45°*angle (halfway to the ice).* As you improve and get more confidence, you will be able to push the angle of the edge to even more extremes"

.....

I don't mean rolling your ankle in ways to the point of injury. In my opinion some "rolling" of the ankle is necessary for optimum results while on the outside edges.

He's talking about the lateral angle of the skate to 45 degrees, using the ankle as a reference point. Not bending the ankle joint laterally 45 degrees. Look at the picture in the article, ankle joints are straight, but legs are angled to the ice. The angle is achieved by leaning your body. He explains it as counterbalance later in the article. Lol @ him only sharpening once a year. It shows how far sharpening science has come over the last 15-20 years.

 

[American in Paris]

I think a small amount of lateral ankle movement is very important when attempting higher level edge control. I have experimented with loosening my skates and skipping the top eyelet both of which I have found to enhance the ankle mobility needed for advanced edge control drills. I've heard of coaches who tell their players to completely loosen their skates at the end of practice before doing specialized skating drills.

As a general rule I think it makes sense to practice skating drills with extra loose skates to get a feel for the connection between lateral ankle movement and edge control.

In practice play and competition, the skates need to be sufficiently tight to protect against ankle roll injuries, but still relatively loose to enable ankle mobility. I think most players err on the side of too tight.

 

[jorbjorb]

i really don't think your ankles should be flexing or bending (ankle bender) lol. the skate should flex but not your ankle isn't that dangerous
?
maybe my ankles bend i don't know i don't think about it haha

 

[Pez68]

He's talking about the lateral angle of the skate to 45 degrees, using the ankle as a reference point. Not bending the ankle joint laterally 45 degrees. Look at the picture in the article, ankle joints are straight, but legs are angled to the ice. The angle is achieved by leaning your body. He explains it as counterbalance later in the article. Lol @ him only sharpening once a year. It shows how far sharpening science has come over the last 15-20 years.

Sharpening science, or the quality of the steel used in the blades? Blades just hold their edge forever now. The science of sharpening really hasn't changed at all, aside from the flat bottom cut. Unless I step on something and nick up my edges, I can go months without sharpening my skates, and I skate a few times a week.

 

[sanityplease]

Sharpening science, or the quality of the steel used in the blades? Blades just hold their edge forever now. The science of sharpening really hasn't changed at all, aside from the flat bottom cut. Unless I step on something and nick up my edges, I can go months without sharpening my skates, and I skate a few times a week.

His article was originally from 1997 or earlier. Glantz had no clue about skate blade sharpening. Very few people did.

http://www.hockeyplayer.com/paid/publish/printer_416.shtml

"As for myself, I take my skates out of the box, get them sharpened and that lasts me about a year, and I skate nearly every day (honestly!). If I were still playing, I would probably get them sharpened more, but not much. One of the reasons for this is that like most other players I have always had a weaker side when stopping, and I am able to stop much better on both sides when my skates are not too sharp. Plus, even though the duller skate might take a bit away from my turning and cutting ability, I find that I can easily compensate for this by placing my body weight in the correct spot, so that, essentially, I am not letting the skates ‘cheat’ for me. I feel that this puts me in control of my skates, rather than the other way around"

He doesn't make any sense, it's like me saying that you can put poor tires on your car & just drive better... If he likes them 'duller' he should find his optimal R.O.H. & maintain it @ that level. He probably didn't like a freshly sharpened pair @ a standard 7/16" or 1/2" R.O.H., but didn't understand why.

 

[TheRedShadow]

His article was originally from 1997 or earlier. Glantz had no clue about skate blade sharpening. Very few people did.

http://www.hockeyplayer.com/paid/publish/printer_416.shtml

"As for myself, I take my skates out of the box, get them sharpened and that lasts me about a year, and I skate nearly every day (honestly!). If I were still playing, I would probably get them sharpened more, but not much. One of the reasons for this is that like most other players I have always had a weaker side when stopping, and I am able to stop much better on both sides when my skates are not too sharp. Plus, even though the duller skate might take a bit away from my turning and cutting ability, I find that I can easily compensate for this by placing my body weight in the correct spot, so that, essentially, I am not letting the skates ‘cheat’ for me. I feel that this puts me in control of my skates, rather than the other way around"

He doesn't make any sense, it's like me saying that you can put poor tires on your car & just drive better... If he likes them 'duller' he should find his optimal R.O.H. & maintain it @ that level. He probably didn't like a freshly sharpened pair @ a standard 7/16" or 1/2" R.O.H., but didn't understand why.

It makes sense to me. The difference in cut between the edges on a pair of freshly sharpened skates and a fairly dull set must be negligible when a full grown person that is a good skater has their weight over them in the right place. I don't know how to express degrees of sharpness or bluntness, but an undamaged skate blade takes a long time to get truly blunt.

 

[sanityplease]

It makes sense to me. The difference in cut between the edges on a pair of freshly sharpened skates and a fairly dull set must be negligible when a full grown person that is a good skater has their weight over them in the right place. I don't know how to express degrees of sharpness or bluntness, but an undamaged skate blade takes a long time to get truly blunt.

I'll note that Glantz has revised his opinion on his website. He does have more understanding now. If someone can skate for a year on a sharpening, they're either skating conservatively or still learning to skate. Once a player begins exerting force multiple times higher than your average skater, the blade/ice resistance physics, become more critical. It's no coincidence that the closer you get to pro players, the more attention is given to maintaining the blades

 

[biturbo19]

I don't really know what all this weird nonsense is about...but "ankle mobility" isn't remotely the same thing as "weak ankles".

A good, strong skater is able to transfer their weight and manipulate their edges with their ankles at all sorts of varied angles...

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Edit:

guy must have weak ankles or something. I doubt he's good at skating.

 

[CarpeNoctem]

I don't really know what all this weird nonsense is about...but "ankle mobility" isn't remotely the same thing as "weak ankles".

A good, strong skater is able to transfer their weight and manipulate their edges with their ankles at all sorts of varied angles...

Yup, exactly. A lot of force must be applied to the medial side of the ankle to flex enough to really hit the inside edge... the same is true with the other side of the ankle and the other edge. So while you do want to put your ankles at an angle to generate force, you have to be really careful in doing so. If you don't have the strength at all, you can even hurt yourself just trying to find your edges.

 

[STC]

I don't think you should be thinking about your ankles at all when your skating. Just work on your skating, as you get better your ankles/feet/toes/bunions/corns will follow suit and do the rest on their own.

 

[theGoose]

All good points fellas. The reason why I wanted to hear others opinion on ankles and there role in skating is because when I went to a composite skate I really had to manipalte my ankles to get on my edges, which I never have had to before, but I also have never used such stiff skates. That also explains why people on this site recommends not buying stiff skates to start with. I've been skating (most) my life and the fact that I had to re-invent (slightly) my skating took me by surprise.

Everyone has a different stride, and body alignment so, most have problems with not enought ankle strength while others (me) need to keep a relaxed ankle to get on them edges or I'm skidding around "on top" of my blades.

I'd hate to see people messing up there ankles because they have weak ones but I'd hate to see a skater with some natural ability hold themselves back because of worry of skating like a "bender".

Keep it sleazy and always go for top cheese