Post-Game Talk: Pre-Season Game #5: Canucks 1 vs. Kings 4

[CanaFan]

-Will Pettersson be a superstar by that time......if not sooner? Very likely.
-Will Quinn Hughes be a top pairing defenseman by that time? It’s difficult to tell but I think most would agree that his chances of becoming a top pairing guy are very good.
-Will Olli Juolevi be a decent 2nd pairing puck moving defenseman by that time? I think there’s a good chance.

####-Pettersson-Boeser
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen
#######-Sutter-#####
#######-Beagle-#####

Hughes-####
Juolevi-####

Top line = superstar center + superstar winger + some dude riding shotgun

2nd line = a very good 2nd line center + an average 2nd line player + a fast and physical player that can likely grow into an average 2nd line winger at minimum.

3rd line = very good 3rd line C
4th line = very good 4th line C

So yeah - I have plenty of reason to feel optimistic. This will be a good hockey team in 2020-2021 in my opinion. We will make the playoffs in 2019-2020.

I’ve never seen an elite team with 2 defensemen before, let alone 2 that aren’t even in the NHL yet. We’re also going to lose Edler and see Tanev decline in the next two years. TBH we may actually be worse in 2 years unless something unexpected happens.

Edmonton has McDavid, a better player than Elias, and they are far from elite. Boeser is a very promising young player but “Superstar” is hyperbole. We don’t know what his ceiling is, though I expect it will be pretty high (35-40 goals). Whether he gets there however is still TBD.

The rest of that second line - Virtanen and Baertschi - is the makings of a bottom 5 team, not an elite team.

And I notice you didn’t even bother to list the goalies, which is telling. Demko has potential but as we’ve seen, after 2 years in the AHL he looks nowhere near to ready. Dipietro may be something, or he may not. Either way we are years away from knowing with any certainty.

You need a LOT to go right in just two years, and we’ve already seen how little good Benning has done through FOUR seasons. Chances are he’ll bring in more Gudbransons and Sbisas rather than anything resembling a strong top 4 defense. Hughes is a nice piece but Jesus, you can’t put the entire defense on his shoulders alone.

Being optimistic is the easy part. Actually seeing it happen is the hard part.

 

[JT Milker]

No one’s chances of becoming a top pairing dman are very good

 

[NuxFan09]

Tell us how you really feel. Anti-swarm was mine I think. But it's funny because I think they actually alternate from Swarm to Anti-swarm. They swarm like a bunch of mites leaving multiple guys open which is a recipe for disaster when even the worst NHL player can pass to the open guy. Then once that coverage is blown they do nothing to actually try to get the puck back.

It's symptomatic of a few things (1) players who are quite simply one-dimensional and not capable at this level; (2) players that don't care and (3) a coaching staff unable to get players to care.

Usually I don't look at the preseason as anything more than glorified practices for a good chunk of the roster so I don't get concerned about the record. But rarely do I see so many red flags in the preseason. Players aren't even showing the most rudimentary engagement. Real Gud is getting turnstyled on the regular. Juolevi rolling out the red carpet to Kopitar (and earlier letting Kovalchuk pick pocket him for a chance). Edler is back to Tortarella era Edler. Horvat is going one against the world every chance he can get. Boeser can't get a shot through and I think he's fanned on more shots this preseason than he did through all of last year.

I figure this is going to be a brutal season. My solace came from at the end of it having new management and at least having some kids develop. This has the makings of a highly toxic situation this year that you don't want kids around. I hope Petterson has some exceptional mental toughness because he's going to need it. The other kids should be kept in Utica far away from this mess.

And please Francesco for the love of every single god that has ever been worshiped realize the mistake you have made and turf these guys before Christmas. Then realize that you aren't a hockey wiz and the experts are clearly correct and you are wrong. You have to or you will have issues finding a competent management team to work for you.

I won't cheer for the team to lose...during the game I want them to win. But damn I can't help but think the best thing for this franchise is a 0-10 start followed by an immediate management purge.

My feelings exactly. What we need is for the owner to CLUE IN!

 

[MS]

I don't know who you're talking about but it could be any number of players and that is sad.

I don't usually care that much about pre-season. Don't even follow it some years. And I am not reading too much into this year's pre-season. But man. I was all prepared to be outraged at Benning/Green for cutting young player X in favor of old player Y and this doesn't even seem to be manifesting. I honestly never would have guessed that the only youngish player to be making a case for being on the team is freaking Tyler Motte.

edit: not counting Pettersson whom I considered a lock long before training camp.

Same. Much as I hate this regime, I had rated our prospect pool highly and expected some guys to step up and win jobs.

One of two things is happening :

1) our prospect pool is ridiculously overrated and is barren behind Pettersson and Hughes.

2) this organization did a dreadful job preparing these guys to compete for jobs at this camp, building confidence, and putting them in positions to succeed.

And it's probably a combination of both.

For the best, like, 10 guys age 20-22 in the organization outside of Pettersson to all come to camp and lay an egg is inexcusable.

I've said for a long time that Green is a guy who destroys young players more than nurtures them and nothing I've seen this year has changed my mind.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Same. Much as I hate this regime, I had rated our prospect pool highly and expected some guys to step up and win jobs.

One of two things is happening :

1) our prospect pool is ridiculously overrated and is barren behind Pettersson and Hughes.

2) this organization did a dreadful job preparing these guys to compete for jobs at this camp, building confidence, and putting them in positions to succeed.

And it's probably a combination of both.

For the best, like, 10 guys age 20-22 in the organization outside of Pettersson to all come to camp and lay an egg is inexcusable.

I've said for a long time that Green is a guy who destroys young players more than nurtures them and nothing I've seen this year has changed my mind.

What is your read and opinion on Green? Desjardins was so unbelievably bad that I have been conditioned to think anyone who doesn't throw fourth liners out in every key situation is good. However, I don't have much of a read on Green since he's tight lipped in interviews and seems completely introverted. I don't have much of an issue with his coaching yet but I think I've systematically deleted the last few years of Canucks hockey from my memory hard drive.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

But to the point of the conversation, our defense is just an absolutely pathetic mess.

From the Benning era we have

Virtanen
Boeser
Gaudette
Stecher
Juolevi
Petterson

In five years...

We six prospects pushing to make our NHL team in five years.

...In five years.

FIVE YEARS

 

[Peter10]

“Elite team in 2 years”.

Well, according to Benning he is hoping to be among the elite teams this year!

 

[Josepho]

I don't think Green is the same obviously inept mess of a coach that Willie is, but I don't think he's right for a young team (or at least one that should be) like this at the moment.

 

[tantalum]

I'm not sure Green is a bad coach but I'm also not sure he's a good one. He makes a lot of bad decisions in terms of who he thinks is good, but unlike Willie he actually tries to make adjustments.

I think it's hard to judge him based on developing and rebuilding because despite the lip service of saying "rebuild" this year, I truly believe that behind closed doors the mandate has been to win. And as a coach with that mandate you are going with veterans. It's why, I think, he asked for guys like Beagle and Roussel.

 

[Bad Goalie]

@Bad Goalie

Dude, right? I so feel and echo your frustrations. How have we sucked for five years and yet we have virtually no youth or depth in the system? Around this time in a competent organization that slashed and burned everything to the ground after some good years, our AHL team should be dominating right now walking to Calder Cup Finals.

Yet, we have no ****ing depth and no ****ing youth outside of a handful of guys who's future remains in doubt.

And Benning gets a goddamn contract extension?

Whatever ****ing Island the Aquillini's are on, whatever the **** is going on in their lives that's more important than a two billion dollar plus global business going down the crapper effecting huge swaths of humanity who's money keeps their asses on that island. Someone needs to slip a note into the pocket of whatever ****ing servant is working for them on whatever ****ing Island they're on today that their business is going to absolute ****.

I can't even process this type of billionaire indifference. It's like if I owned a candy factory in which dead bugs were found in every candy bar but it's cool because we got a lifelong contract with all the stores and our packaging is nice.

If it didn't hurt so much and drive you crazy to keep watching, it would be laughable. How they still have loyal followers sold that they are doing a great job is unfathomable.

 

[hookshott]

Wondering if I can make a call from China one of these days. I’ll do it if I can call via skype.

Yes you can....when I worked in China I called into the afternoon show one morning via Skype. Tell them you are calling from China and they will get you on right away!

 

[WTG]

I don't think Green is the same obviously inept mess of a coach that Willie is, but I don't think he's right for a young team (or at least one that should be) like this at the moment.

The team is willing to spent to the cap, but not willing to dish out the cash and try to get a top end coach.

 

[RandV]

Same. Much as I hate this regime, I had rated our prospect pool highly and expected some guys to step up and win jobs.

One of two things is happening :

1) our prospect pool is ridiculously overrated and is barren behind Pettersson and Hughes.

2) this organization did a dreadful job preparing these guys to compete for jobs at this camp, building confidence, and putting them in positions to succeed.

Not sure what you're talking about with #2, I mean management went out and gave Jay Beagle $12 million to take care of that. Jay Beagle! Why would you need anything else to get these kids pumped?

 

[I in the Eye]

Regardless of the desires from upper management (where this regime's desire is to win asap), I always expect the coach to ice the team he feels he can win with. Green does not give a damn about the kids, and I don't expect him to. It's up to upper management to tell Green that the kids are the priority. Green does not want to be the coach of the worst team on record. Green wants to be the coach of the Bad News Bears.

But, alas, this is an organization that had the coach at the GMs conference discussing the presidents dismissal.

 

[m9]

Green is smart and thinks the game well. He did some good things in terms of deployment last year.

He's far down my list of problems in this organization. Probably at the very bottom, to be honest.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

My observations thus far:

Impressed by:
Horvat, Pettersson & Motte

Satisfied with:
Gaudette, Palmu & Leipsic

Meh:
The rest of the roster

Disappointed by:
Juolevi, Virtanen, most of our D & Goaltending

 

[Zippgunn]

For the best, like, 10 guys age 20-22 in the organization outside of Pettersson to all come to camp and lay an egg is inexcusable.

I've said for a long time that Green is a guy who destroys young players more than nurtures them and nothing I've seen this year has changed my mind.

I've said for awhile now that Green gets cut a lot of slack because everybody here still has such a hate on for Willie.

 

[me2]

I've said for awhile now that Green gets cut a lot of slack because everybody here still has such a hate on for Willie.

I cut them both slack because Benning is a terrible GM who keeps handing his coaches suicide passes for teams.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Whoops looks like I replied to the wrong thread

It’s just preseason everyone just take a deep breath and relax. The outcome of these games don’t matter at all, especially when most of our guys are veteran pros who aren’t playing in high gear, no need to get hurt in a preseason game. We’re still outshooting our opponents and carrying the play for most of the games. We’re still making the playoffs. In fact I think this year is a year where the team absolutely has to make the playoffs or else guys like Boeser and Pettersson and Horvat might get used to losing and irreversibly stunt their development. We can’t afford to throw these guys under the bus for a shiny new toy. Jack Hughes would be nice but I’m starting to question whether it would be worth getting him.

 

[Icebreakers]

Whoops looks like I replied to the wrong thread

It’s just preseason everyone just take a deep breath and relax. The outcome of these games don’t matter at all, especially when most of our guys are veteran pros who aren’t playing in high gear, no need to get hurt in a preseason game. We’re still outshooting our opponents and carrying the play for most of the games. We’re still making the playoffs. In fact I think this year is a year where the team absolutely has to make the playoffs or else guys like Boeser and Pettersson and Horvat might get used to losing and irreversibly stunt their development. We can’t afford to throw these guys under the bus for a shiny new toy. Jack Hughes would be nice but I’m starting to question whether it would be worth getting him.

Its actually a huge problem considering half the team dont have gauranteed spots on the team. If you cant play hard to guarantee a million dollar job then theres something wrong with you, or youre just bad at hockey.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Its actually a huge problem considering half the team dont have gauranteed spots on the team. If you cant play hard to guarantee a million dollar job then theres something wrong with you, or youre just bad at hockey.

I wonder if part of the problem is coaching? What is Green telling these guys to make them look uninspired in a preseason where they are supposed to be fighting for spots? I get it if a few guys look uninspired but all of them? Maybe the bag skating tired them out too much and now they’re out of gas.

 

[me2]

I wonder if part of the problem is coaching? What is Green telling these guys to make them look uninspired in a preseason where they are supposed to be fighting for spots? I get it if a few guys look uninspired but all of them? Maybe the bag skating tired them out too much and now they’re out of gas.

Poor mentors is the problem.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Poor mentors is the problem.

You can thank Gillis for not drafting any mentors while he was GM. They don’t just grow on trees. Elite mentors are as hard to find as elite goal scorers. We have some average mentors left from the Gillis era but average doesn’t cut it in the NHL.

 

[me2]

You can thank Gillis for not drafting any mentors while he was GM. They don’t just grow on trees. Elite mentors are as hard to find as elite goal scorers. We have some average mentors left from the Gillis era but average doesn’t cut it in the NHL.

Nah the problem is Jimbo keeps signing and trading for damp squibs that are here to retire not help. Sutter Dorsett MDZ Eriksson Gagner Roussel Beagle Gudbranson and many more, couldn't mentor crap. Jim's mentors have clocked off for the season and we aren't even out of preseason.

 

[Melvin]

Same. Much as I hate this regime, I had rated our prospect pool highly and expected some guys to step up and win jobs.

One of two things is happening :

1) our prospect pool is ridiculously overrated and is barren behind Pettersson and Hughes.

2) this organization did a dreadful job preparing these guys to compete for jobs at this camp, building confidence, and putting them in positions to succeed.

And it's probably a combination of both.

For the best, like, 10 guys age 20-22 in the organization outside of Pettersson to all come to camp and lay an egg is inexcusable.

I've said for a long time that Green is a guy who destroys young players more than nurtures them and nothing I've seen this year has changed my mind.

Apparently the Sedins really were critical to setting an example and without them the rest of the term can't be bothered.

Surprising.