Canucks LB
My Favourite, Gone too soon, RIP Luc, We miss you
- Oct 12, 2008
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Post-Game Talk: Pre-Season Game #5: Canucks 1 vs. Kings 4
- Thread starter Zombotron
- Start date
JuniorNelson
Registered User
If you read the comments in this thread it seems like everybody sucked. No hustle. I have to think this is a coaching issue. Green hasn't got a fire lit under anybody. In a week they need to be fire breathing NHL regulars. Good luck!
Suppose they took it easy. Suppose, in the next week, they all start taking things seriously. What have you got? I mean, I expected a hockey team, like last season opener. That could still happen but it looks remote from here. The roster looks like it's half finished. They need several guys! They need to be scooping waiver wire pickups or making hockey trades or something! Gliding calmly into the basement has been this team's hallmark for too long. WTF?
Suppose they took it easy. Suppose, in the next week, they all start taking things seriously. What have you got? I mean, I expected a hockey team, like last season opener. That could still happen but it looks remote from here. The roster looks like it's half finished. They need several guys! They need to be scooping waiver wire pickups or making hockey trades or something! Gliding calmly into the basement has been this team's hallmark for too long. WTF?
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
- Jun 21, 2014
- 9,668
- 2,650
there is toll free
Will try it.
National Holiday is coming up here in China (October 1st) and so I’ll have a week+ to throw some haymakers at Dave Pratt, etc.
Hmm yeah, they look generally terrible, but I still can't bring myself to stress about a team's preseason play. Looking forward to the real games starting. This is just shinny. Pond hockey. It's just practice. We talkin' bout practice. Practice. Talking about practice. Man, practice.
LickTheEnvelope
Weird time to be a Canucks fan 2024
Currently the Juolevi pick is much worse but long-term I suspect the Virtanen pick will look worse.
amazing what a week can do. last week i was buying into the hype of such a deep prospect pool and checked prices for center ice. glad i waited. looks like another season of watching youtube highlights (lowlights) the morning after a game. sigh.
There are tough decisions...just not on who makes the team. Peterson and Motte want a spot and the rest haven't been bothered to try thus far. How many do you waive and how many do you trade is the tough decisions? The picking the roster part has become easy.
Also can’t believe someone said Goldobin had a good game. He has been every chance to grab a roster spot and simply hasn't.
Coaching issue? Maybe or a players aren’t stupid issue. They were bad last year. They know they were bad. No changes other than losing leadership in the room. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize the year is lost before it begins. I suspect you have guys trying to play themselves out of the organization. At least the veterans. The prospects it appears just aren’t nearly as good as the hype machine said. Take Petterson away and it’s a stable of players who just had their ceilings lowered.
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me2
Go ahead foot
After 5 years drafting early and basically having late 1st rounders (higher 2nd round picks), we can agree we have 3 quality prospects.
Quantity meh...same group as previous hopes, maybe 1, possibly 2, hopeful bottom role players and the rest are very questionable.
The only certainty is that these past 5 years have been dismal and the drafting mediocre. I think the Flames have outdrafted us FFS
DollarAndADream
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2012
- 159
- 46
For what it's worth, our lineup was missing Pettersson, and also the Kings are arguably one of the best teams in the league, and one of the best defensively. They are experts at a trap game.
Not that it's an excuse at all for what was mostly our starting lineup last night, but take it for what it's worth.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
I certainly wouldn't argue that (other than in the past tense - they *were*). I do agree they are one of the best defensively. In any event, it's just preseason.
Gaud, Palmu and Dahlen possibly will do well...but I'm more doubtful about the rest of the prospects at this point than I was prior to these preseason games.
Yeah I know it's preseason, but these guys have an opportunity to play in the NHL! They're so close and they put in an effort like they did? Absolute disappointment.
I'm not talking about racking up points, just plain effort...where's the compete?
Can they be so arrogant to think they deserve a spot?
Ignorant to think they already secured a spot?
Or are they just lacking the skills to reach the next level?
Could be any other multiple reasons that aren't so dire, but if it's effort and hunger to play in the NHL...we are worse off than I expected and I wasn't expecting much.
random thought...how far away are we from professional athletes having their own podcasts? i'd totally tune in everyday to hear them riff about their life.
carry on, sorry for the sidetrack.
carry on, sorry for the sidetrack.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
It's becoming the Oiler problem. A few good prospects but nothing else from the rest of the farm. It's not that extreme yet but I think only because we's need another 2 or 3 years of disappointment under Bennings leadership to reach Kevin Lowe level. We can pencil Lind, Demko, Gaudette and the rest into future lineups all we want but we have to realize that as time passes you are going to be crossing out a majority of those names. It was imperative to pick up extra picks and not trade youth. 10 picks a draft, McCann and Forsling in the system and the farm system might actually be worthy of the praise it gets. The praise is generated on the back of Petterson who is clearly an outstanding prospect but one person does not make a deep pool of youth.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
- Jun 21, 2014
- 9,668
- 2,650
If all of Gaudette, Dahlen, and Palmu make the team one day, I’ll be extremely happy. Realistically however, I’m expecting only 1-2 of those players to make it. It’s the way the odds go as it comes to prospects.
I don’t think it was a lack of effort. These guys knew what was at stake. I think it’s just more of a case of these guys needing more time to develop.
The only guy who I felt “screwed the pooch” a little was Goldobin. He came into preseason flying and got some great feedback. Instead of using that as a stepping stone however, he seemed to rest on his laurels a bit. Atleast that was the impression that I got.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
- Jun 21, 2014
- 9,668
- 2,650
Balls Mahoney
2015-2016 HF Premier League World Champion
I try to sleep on it before responding with detailed thoughts as I think I'm one of the most critical Canucks fans on this board and arguably on the planet. I try to write what I see.
This team is an absolute embarrassment. This organization is an absolute embarrassment. Jim Benning is a goddamn biblical plague upon this fan base. How the Canucks brass from ownership to the front office can watch a game like this and then not think we're in full on tank mode blows my f***ing mind like I cannot even process. Rumblings from within the organization say Benning is desperately trying to push everyone in the organization to make more revenue so they can spend to the cap. These f***ing idiots still don't realize how f***ed they are. And if a game like this where a former World Championship club is on easy mode in a terrible back water arena and our team is EZed like a junior varsity club. I don't even process how the front office and especially the ownership isn't having a collective freak out right now.
This team is bad. That sentence is like saying Wayne Gretzky was alright. I tend to key in on little things. This team without the Sedins has been reduced to maybe a middling AHL squad. The looks and attitudes of the players on their faces were ones of defeat and fear. There was one specific play in the third period where Muzzin laid a gritty hit upon Troy Stecher and then proceeded to give him an extra shot of a bullying face wash and elbow to the face. For no other reason than this dick head really talented world champion could get away with bullying this undersized kid on this terrible team in this terrible arena in this terrible game. And the Canucks responded by doing nothing but struggling for two minutes to hold the offensive zone on the power play and Stecher skated to the bench with a thousand yard stare that remained on his face for the rest of the game.
The Sedins leaving has reduced this team to playing like a collection of individuals as no one seems in sync with anyone now. This team is only firing shots from the perimeter and cannot hold the offensive zone to save it's life. This results in sporadic chaotic low percentage shots from the outside in the fire drill that results in any sort of defensive pressure. Also no one seems particularly sure of what they're supposed to do as it's just kind of a swarm in the offensive zone. I'm not sure if it's a lack of skill or a lack of coaching but this team is simply not NHL caliber in the offensive zone.
Our defensive zone work is hilarious. Someone dubbed it "The Anti-Swarm" as this team seems allergic to the puck in their own zone. My main recollection of this pre-season is wide-open laughers from in close as all the Canucks on the ice seemed to disconnect their controllers at once. The puck then found a talented opposing player directly in front of the net wide open to the point they had the time to build a f***ing house before tapping it past our keeper. This game was no different as I recollect two of them being laughers from blown assignments by Del Zotto and Juolevi/Virtanen.
Travis Green in his post-game comments spoke in general cliches really saying nothing but generally positive sentiments. He's generally pretty poker faced and what's he going to do? Green wants to coach in the NHL and he's stuck in this dumpster fire.
Markstrom is one of the most mentally weak goalies I've watched. The third and fourth goal coming in rapid succession and how mentally defeated he was on the fourth goal. I'm not sure, there just seems to be a lot of holes on this guy. Both physically and otherwise. He's not the biggest problem in the world but it's pretty much just a placeholder right now until something better comes along.
Goldobin is not a NHL player. You can't be on the top line with the best talent on the club and do nothing. I didn't even really notice him until late in the second period. I saw him lose board battles and make two or three decent short passes which would have been impressive if he was a pre-teen. The guy is worthless. I'm not trying to be a hater, I was initially positive about acquiring him. But the guy is simply worthless at this level, the game is above his head. Goldobin also dragged Horvat down with him in this game.
Stecher showed good energy and was mediocre in a sea of terrible. However, everyone is marking out about one little individual rush he tried to pull off where he was manhandled to the outside and then he weakly threw the puck into the side of the net from a bad angle. It looked impressive on TV but it really didn't look like much from a different angle in replay. But like I said in this thread earlier, I have tremendous hope for him. I've always liked his game and think there's potential there. He had the best showing last night I guess which is saying absolutely nothing.
Virtanen is just a boob. Does nothing except blows a defensive assignment leading to a goal during the game. Then wants to get frisky and mouthy at the end of the game when it will get him the most exposure. I cannot fathom this kid has more than two digits in his IQ. I guess I can kind of see why we swung and missed on this kid. They took the gritty hometown kid who was scoring goals in the WHL and if you have a 1980s pants on head Pejorative Slured approach to scouting and managing a club, I guess that's appealing. However this kid is a blithering idiot. Just a straight line meathead who simply doesn't get the game at this level.
Juolevi is trash. He's a defensive defenseman who shys away from physical contact and tough defensive assignments. Listening to this kid in his post-game comments, he just doesn't have the mentality for the NHL. But hey, great outlet pass. Again, if you're a f***ing moron, I guess you take the guy who's making the first pass out of the zone to the guys who were scoring the goals over the guys who were scoring the goals. Why wasn't he tried on the PP? What the f***? I thought he was supposed to be our future franchise defenseman? Benning... you f***ing moron.
Boeser will be fine. He looks fat and slow right now. But he'll work that off. But this will be a painful season for him.
Archibald is too slow for the NHL but I'd be fine with giving him a 4th line spot as he does a lot of good things on the ice and he brings a certain grit/edge/eloquence this team desperately lacks.
On a side note, Kovalchuk is still really fun to watch. That guy is such a star and an absolute delight to watch.
This team is an absolute embarrassment. This organization is an absolute embarrassment. Jim Benning is a goddamn biblical plague upon this fan base. How the Canucks brass from ownership to the front office can watch a game like this and then not think we're in full on tank mode blows my f***ing mind like I cannot even process. Rumblings from within the organization say Benning is desperately trying to push everyone in the organization to make more revenue so they can spend to the cap. These f***ing idiots still don't realize how f***ed they are. And if a game like this where a former World Championship club is on easy mode in a terrible back water arena and our team is EZed like a junior varsity club. I don't even process how the front office and especially the ownership isn't having a collective freak out right now.
This team is bad. That sentence is like saying Wayne Gretzky was alright. I tend to key in on little things. This team without the Sedins has been reduced to maybe a middling AHL squad. The looks and attitudes of the players on their faces were ones of defeat and fear. There was one specific play in the third period where Muzzin laid a gritty hit upon Troy Stecher and then proceeded to give him an extra shot of a bullying face wash and elbow to the face. For no other reason than this dick head really talented world champion could get away with bullying this undersized kid on this terrible team in this terrible arena in this terrible game. And the Canucks responded by doing nothing but struggling for two minutes to hold the offensive zone on the power play and Stecher skated to the bench with a thousand yard stare that remained on his face for the rest of the game.
The Sedins leaving has reduced this team to playing like a collection of individuals as no one seems in sync with anyone now. This team is only firing shots from the perimeter and cannot hold the offensive zone to save it's life. This results in sporadic chaotic low percentage shots from the outside in the fire drill that results in any sort of defensive pressure. Also no one seems particularly sure of what they're supposed to do as it's just kind of a swarm in the offensive zone. I'm not sure if it's a lack of skill or a lack of coaching but this team is simply not NHL caliber in the offensive zone.
Our defensive zone work is hilarious. Someone dubbed it "The Anti-Swarm" as this team seems allergic to the puck in their own zone. My main recollection of this pre-season is wide-open laughers from in close as all the Canucks on the ice seemed to disconnect their controllers at once. The puck then found a talented opposing player directly in front of the net wide open to the point they had the time to build a f***ing house before tapping it past our keeper. This game was no different as I recollect two of them being laughers from blown assignments by Del Zotto and Juolevi/Virtanen.
Travis Green in his post-game comments spoke in general cliches really saying nothing but generally positive sentiments. He's generally pretty poker faced and what's he going to do? Green wants to coach in the NHL and he's stuck in this dumpster fire.
Markstrom is one of the most mentally weak goalies I've watched. The third and fourth goal coming in rapid succession and how mentally defeated he was on the fourth goal. I'm not sure, there just seems to be a lot of holes on this guy. Both physically and otherwise. He's not the biggest problem in the world but it's pretty much just a placeholder right now until something better comes along.
Goldobin is not a NHL player. You can't be on the top line with the best talent on the club and do nothing. I didn't even really notice him until late in the second period. I saw him lose board battles and make two or three decent short passes which would have been impressive if he was a pre-teen. The guy is worthless. I'm not trying to be a hater, I was initially positive about acquiring him. But the guy is simply worthless at this level, the game is above his head. Goldobin also dragged Horvat down with him in this game.
Stecher showed good energy and was mediocre in a sea of terrible. However, everyone is marking out about one little individual rush he tried to pull off where he was manhandled to the outside and then he weakly threw the puck into the side of the net from a bad angle. It looked impressive on TV but it really didn't look like much from a different angle in replay. But like I said in this thread earlier, I have tremendous hope for him. I've always liked his game and think there's potential there. He had the best showing last night I guess which is saying absolutely nothing.
Virtanen is just a boob. Does nothing except blows a defensive assignment leading to a goal during the game. Then wants to get frisky and mouthy at the end of the game when it will get him the most exposure. I cannot fathom this kid has more than two digits in his IQ. I guess I can kind of see why we swung and missed on this kid. They took the gritty hometown kid who was scoring goals in the WHL and if you have a 1980s pants on head Pejorative Slured approach to scouting and managing a club, I guess that's appealing. However this kid is a blithering idiot. Just a straight line meathead who simply doesn't get the game at this level.
Juolevi is trash. He's a defensive defenseman who shys away from physical contact and tough defensive assignments. Listening to this kid in his post-game comments, he just doesn't have the mentality for the NHL. But hey, great outlet pass. Again, if you're a f***ing moron, I guess you take the guy who's making the first pass out of the zone to the guys who were scoring the goals over the guys who were scoring the goals. Why wasn't he tried on the PP? What the f***? I thought he was supposed to be our future franchise defenseman? Benning... you f***ing moron.
Boeser will be fine. He looks fat and slow right now. But he'll work that off. But this will be a painful season for him.
Archibald is too slow for the NHL but I'd be fine with giving him a 4th line spot as he does a lot of good things on the ice and he brings a certain grit/edge/eloquence this team desperately lacks.
On a side note, Kovalchuk is still really fun to watch. That guy is such a star and an absolute delight to watch.
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David Bruce Banner
Acid Raven Bed Burn
There was no way this season was ever going to be anything other than a disaster. About the only things we can hope for is that some of the young guys develop well, either in the NHL, the AHL or elsewhere... our core (Horvat, Pettersson and Boeser) stay healthy... and we get the 1st overall pick.
I don't think there's a waiver eligible bubble guy from Gagner to Goldoblin that any team would take if we sent them down.
"Our defensive zone work is hilarious. Someone dubbed it "The Anti-Swarm" as this team seems allergic to the puck in their own zone. My main recollection of this pre-season is wide-open laughers from in close as all the Canucks on the ice seemed to disconnect their controllers at once. The puck then found a talented opposing player directly in front of the net wide open to the point they had the time to build a ****ing house before tapping it past our keeper."
You have paraphrased my post game descriptions of the Utica Comets last season. The group that will win out for the top 6 in Utica will be the same that played here last year minus the 2 so-called vets of Wiercioch and Holm. They were 2 D-men who racked up points but were dismal in their own end.
Sautner, Brisebois, and Chatfield are Vancouver's answer for the future and they don't rack up points. They will be joined by the other answer, still major knee surgery recovering McEneny. He's had that happen twice in his short career. He did put up points when healthy. That's IT!@!!@!! Blujus is a Tampa reject who can hold his own, but is no candidate for the NHL. He would probably be a decent #6 in a good top 6. Their veteran presence is 35 yr-old Jaime Sifers who was never an NHL player and has lost not one , but at least 3 steps. Then it's undrafted dolts like Dirk, Anselmini, and Islanders' flop Jess Graham.
What you described as Vancouver's defense may actually look worse down here. Demko and Bachman were in virtual shooting galleries all last season and it's not going to get better.
Benning and AHL NAME ONLY GM Johnson had all Summer to work at shoring up what could be the weakest D-core of any NHL franchise from top to bottom. They acquired absolutely NOTHING at either level! Instead Benning went out and got 3 4th line character guys to replace much cheaper versions he already had in house, re-signed and gave raises to his D-men, and re-upped forwards that could have been used for some trades at least for picks or AHL level D-men and used his UFA dollars on some better D-men. Vancouver moves into this season with the same 8 that were not good last year.
In Utica Johnson has spent the summer signing a plethora of low level ECHL talent to AHL contracts to stash in Kalamazoo so that he has players he can easily call up to replace the missing players that will be needed when Vancouver suffers their annual injury parade and Utica faces the same. He is an idiot! These guys will not have the talent level needed to help the Comets stay afloat. The guys that did that last season were the best talent available in the ECHL brought in one by one starting at Christmas and tried and let go until they found the handful that were able to help them get to the playoffs. Johnson's new sub list won't last any longer than Vancouver's stashes of Moynihan and Cederholm did last year.
Utica is expected to "give the kids the chance to carry the load" in Utica with zero veteran help. Unheard of for any decent AHL team. Lots of talented kids here up front possibly with center support for the first time in both cases, but a D-core that will require the forwards to expend more time in their own zone than at the other end of the ice. The forwards here last season couldn't do that well either and several will be back.
Defense is key to the success of any team. Weaker offensive teams can still enjoy a high level of success with strong goal tending and air tight D. It can be boring , but it works. High scoring teams in pissing contests every game usually end up on the short end of the stick.
Hughes won't fix the defensive holes in Vancover and Brisebois isn't close to being the top dog down here, no matter how much Benning tells the press all season, for the second year running, about the "strong season Brisebois is having in Utica." I didn't really understand the merits of those quotes last season based on the guy I was watching. He played alright protected by a vet all times, but had a pocketful of problems that questioned the word "strong".
The Comets could have 4 good lines and the keepers should be good. The D will be the deciding factor. If Henning was still around, moves would be made to shore up the weak links back there, but lo, we only have bumbling Johnson under the guidance of Benning who I don't believe gives him permission to do anything.
Far from shinny but if you think the Canucks are taking it easy, then so is the opposition. Usually preseason is where elite teams take it easy and bad teams over-perform. It’s very unlikely Vancouver’s going to suddenly step up their play when the season starts, unless you think they are one of the elite teams mentioned above.
Tell us how you really feel. Anti-swarm was mine I think. But it's funny because I think they actually alternate from Swarm to Anti-swarm. They swarm like a bunch of mites leaving multiple guys open which is a recipe for disaster when even the worst NHL player can pass to the open guy. Then once that coverage is blown they do nothing to actually try to get the puck back.
It's symptomatic of a few things (1) players who are quite simply one-dimensional and not capable at this level; (2) players that don't care and (3) a coaching staff unable to get players to care.
Usually I don't look at the preseason as anything more than glorified practices for a good chunk of the roster so I don't get concerned about the record. But rarely do I see so many red flags in the preseason. Players aren't even showing the most rudimentary engagement. Real Gud is getting turnstyled on the regular. Juolevi rolling out the red carpet to Kopitar (and earlier letting Kovalchuk pick pocket him for a chance). Edler is back to Tortarella era Edler. Horvat is going one against the world every chance he can get. Boeser can't get a shot through and I think he's fanned on more shots this preseason than he did through all of last year.
I figure this is going to be a brutal season. My solace came from at the end of it having new management and at least having some kids develop. This has the makings of a highly toxic situation this year that you don't want kids around. I hope Petterson has some exceptional mental toughness because he's going to need it. The other kids should be kept in Utica far away from this mess.
And please Francesco for the love of every single god that has ever been worshiped realize the mistake you have made and turf these guys before Christmas. Then realize that you aren't a hockey wiz and the experts are clearly correct and you are wrong. You have to or you will have issues finding a competent management team to work for you.
I won't cheer for the team to lose...during the game I want them to win. But damn I can't help but think the best thing for this franchise is a 0-10 start followed by an immediate management purge.
Balls Mahoney
2015-2016 HF Premier League World Champion
@Bad Goalie
Dude, right? I so feel and echo your frustrations. How have we sucked for five years and yet we have virtually no youth or depth in the system? Around this time in a competent organization that slashed and burned everything to the ground after some good years, our AHL team should be dominating right now walking to Calder Cup Finals.
Yet, we have no f***ing depth and no f***ing youth outside of a handful of guys who's future remains in doubt.
And Benning gets a goddamn contract extension?
Whatever f***ing Island the Aquillini's are on, whatever the f*** is going on in their lives that's more important than a two billion dollar plus global business going down the crapper effecting huge swaths of humanity who's money keeps their asses on that island. Someone needs to slip a note into the pocket of whatever f***ing servant is working for them on whatever f***ing Island they're on today that their business is going to absolute shit.
I can't even process this type of billionaire indifference. It's like if I owned a candy factory in which dead bugs were found in every candy bar but it's cool because we got a lifelong contract with all the stores and our packaging is nice.
Dude, right? I so feel and echo your frustrations. How have we sucked for five years and yet we have virtually no youth or depth in the system? Around this time in a competent organization that slashed and burned everything to the ground after some good years, our AHL team should be dominating right now walking to Calder Cup Finals.
Yet, we have no f***ing depth and no f***ing youth outside of a handful of guys who's future remains in doubt.
And Benning gets a goddamn contract extension?
Whatever f***ing Island the Aquillini's are on, whatever the f*** is going on in their lives that's more important than a two billion dollar plus global business going down the crapper effecting huge swaths of humanity who's money keeps their asses on that island. Someone needs to slip a note into the pocket of whatever f***ing servant is working for them on whatever f***ing Island they're on today that their business is going to absolute shit.
I can't even process this type of billionaire indifference. It's like if I owned a candy factory in which dead bugs were found in every candy bar but it's cool because we got a lifelong contract with all the stores and our packaging is nice.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
- Jun 21, 2014
- 9,668
- 2,650
“Elite team in 2 years”.
-Will Pettersson be a superstar by that time......if not sooner? Very likely.
-Will Quinn Hughes be a top pairing defenseman by that time? It’s difficult to tell but I think most would agree that his chances of becoming a top pairing guy are very good.
-Will Olli Juolevi be a decent 2nd pairing puck moving defenseman by that time? I think there’s a good chance.
####-Pettersson-Boeser
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen
#######-Sutter-#####
#######-Beagle-#####
Hughes-####
Juolevi-####
Top line = superstar center + superstar winger + some dude riding shotgun
2nd line = a very good 2nd line center + an average 2nd line player + a fast and physical player that can likely grow into an average 2nd line winger at minimum.
3rd line = very good 3rd line C
4th line = very good 4th line C
So yeah - I have plenty of reason to feel optimistic. This will be a good hockey team in 2020-2021 in my opinion. We will make the playoffs in 2019-2020.
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