Post-Game Talk: Pre-Season Game #5: Canucks 1 vs. Kings 4

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[Scott Stevens]

Dahlen an early cut.

Gotta have our Gagners and Granlunds getting their ice to get ready for the opener.

 

[Addison Rae]

Honestly wouldn't mind seeing Pettersson and Boeser together at even strength.

Goldobin / Pettersson / Boeser
Baertschi / Horvat / Virtanen

 

[Blade Paradigm]

Dahlen an early cut.

Gotta have our Gagners and Granlunds getting their ice to get ready for the opener.

Dahlen hasn't done enough to warrant starting the season with the Canucks. Based on his training camp performance, he might benefit more from starting the season with the Utica Comets.

Filip Forsberg, who left the Allsvenskan to join the Nashville Predators, spent his first full North American season in the AHL. William Nylander spent some time in the AHL too.

Elias Pettersson is the exception, but Dahlen might need to make the same adjustment that those two did from the Swedish professional leagues to NHL hockey. He's only 20 years old.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Dahlen hasn't done enough to warrant starting the season with the Canucks. Based on his training camp performance, he might benefit more from starting the season with the Utica Comets.

Filip Forsberg, who left the Allsvenskan to join the Nashville Predators, spent his first full North American season in the AHL. William Nylander spent some time in the AHL too.

Elias Pettersson is the exception, but Dahlen might need to make the same adjustment that those two did from the Swedish professional leagues to NHL hockey.

Fair enough.

What if Benning trades Goldobin for f*** all, or waives and loses him, to keep guys like granlund/gagner/schaller/beagle/roussell?

 

[Melvin]

Dahlen hasn't done enough to warrant starting the season with the Canucks. Based on his training camp performance, he might benefit more from starting the season with the Utica Comets.

Filip Forsberg, who left the Allsvenskan to join the Nashville Predators, spent his first full North American season in the AHL. William Nylander spent some time in the AHL too.

Not really?

Forsberg played for the predators before he was sent down to the ahl and the next season basically split time.

The leafs kept Nylander down because they were tanking for Matthews.

In both cases its important to note that they didn't have European assignment clauses since most GMs wouldn't put that into an elc.

There has not typically been much of an adjustment period between Allsvenskan and NHL. I would expect to see Dahlen back soon. I would be supremely disappointed if he spent the whole season in Utica. That would be quite bad.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Not really?

Forsberg played for the predators before he was sent down to the ahl and the next season basically split time.

The leafs kept Nylander down because they were tanking for Matthews.

In both cases its important to note that they didn't have European assignment clauses since most GMs wouldn't put that into an elc.

There has not typically been much of an adjustment period between Allsvenskan and NHL. I would expect to see Dahlen back soon. I would be supremely disappointed if he spent the whole season in Utica. That would be quite bad.

Well, there's always Sweden. He does have that in his contract. If riding the bus in upstate NY isn't to his taste he can always scoot back across the ocean.

And whoo yeah, another preseason game.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Fair enough.

What if Benning trades Goldobin for **** all, or waives and loses him, to keep guys like granlund/gagner/schaller/beagle/roussell?

Goldobin has looked like garbage, so no loss really. He's been given plum opportunities on the top 2 lines and looks out of place against AHL/NHL split squads.

The fact we only have 4 top 6 forwards on our team is a problem, but it doesn't mean we need to gift Goldobin a spot when our tweener-squad outplays him.

 

[Blade Paradigm]

Not really?

Forsberg played for the predators before he was sent down to the ahl and the next season basically split time.

Forsberg played 5 games for Nashville in 2012-13. He scored zero goals and was a -5.

The following season, he played a dozen games with the Predators to start the year and scored one goal. He was sent down for the remainder of the year, and was called up for one game in March.

Comments from the Predators section of HF when he was sent down in November 2013:

Don't think the contract status has anything to do with it. I think there's some rookie flaws still in his game, some iffy two-way play, and, like many of our forwards, a lack of creating much of anything at even strength. With Nystrom being a fixture on the 3rd line (which he's earned), Forsberg is also one of 6 wingers competing for 5 spots (Forsberg, Hornqvist, Wilson, Smith, Stalberg, Bourque). Due to the above factors, he would seem to be one of the odd men out in some matchups.

Personally, I also think he's a a bit physically overmatched at this level, and could use some seasoning in Milwaukee before he's ready to make an impact at this level.

I agree with what you have said here. IMO I think he just isn't ready for this level yet. All of his points have come on the pp so far and he is a -7. His lone goal was on a 5 on 3 pp.

Forsberg's even strength performance this season is offensive. No points, not even on the ice for a single ES goal, -7. Forsberg, Clune, and Stalberg are the only three forwards on the team without at least one point at ES.

not at all. this is where you send a player who needs to be taught/reminded how to play the defensive portion of the game.

they did the same thing with Stalberg before moving him up to a normal line.

The fact is the kid is doing zero offensively 5 on 5 right now anyway... I didnt notice but was he on the PP??

Perhaps he can use some time in Milwaukee, but it's easy to see the guy has skill in the offensive zone. His all around game can use polishing. Still, there is something about him that just isn't present in most, if any, of our forwards.

I hope he isn't given up on. I do think given some room to grow he will florish in this league.

He started his season in a top nine spot, did nothing offensively at even strength. He has one ES point (an assist last season) and is a -13 in 15 NHL games played. He earned the reduction in playing time with his inability to fill the most basic responsibilities in the defensive end and completely ineffective at ES offensively.

Forsberg doesn't look quite ready to me. He's only 19, so another year of seasoning would be normal for a player his age.

This timeline indicates that he was not ready to play in the NHL as of the start of 2013-14, and used the remainder of that season in the AHL to develop as a player. He logged 47 games in the AHL that year.

The leafs kept Nylander down because they were tanking for Matthews.

They were successful. I think Vancouver is looking to add a top-line forward to their arsenal.

In both cases its important to note that they didn't have European assignment clauses since most GMs wouldn't put that into an elc.

There has not typically been much of an adjustment period between Allsvenskan and NHL. I would expect to see Dahlen back soon. I would be supremely disappointed if he spent the whole season in Utica. That would be quite bad.

What did you see in Dahlen's play this week to suggest he was better than his competition at training camp?

 

[Nucker101]

Honestly wouldn't mind seeing Pettersson and Boeser together at even strength.

Goldobin / Pettersson / Boeser
Baertschi / Horvat / Virtanen

Agreed. If this team wants two scoring lines then I like the idea of pairing up Pettersson/Boeser and Horvat/Baertschi

 

[Melvin]

Forsberg played 5 games for Nashville in 2012-13. He scored zero goals and was a -5.

The following season, he played a dozen games with the Predators to start the year and scored one goal. He was sent down for the remainder of the year, and was called up for one game in March.

Comments from the Predators section of HF when he was sent down in November 2013:




This timeline indicates that he was not ready to play in the NHL as of the start of 2013-14, and used the remainder of that season in the AHL to develop as a player. He logged 47 games in the AHL that year.

They were successful. I think Vancouver is looking to add a top-line forward to their arsenal.

What did you see in Dahlen's play this week to suggest he was better than his competition at training camp?

Nothing. As I said I am very disappointed in his trajectory.

 

[Blade Paradigm]

Nothing. As I said I am very disappointed in his trajectory.

I would be patient. He shows flashes of NHL-caliber offense. I posted evidence above that Filip Forsberg needed a season in the AHL to develop his game at even strength. He effectively played himself out of a top-nine role at the start of the 2013-14 NHL season and was reassigned to Milwaukee after October.

He was recalled in March 2014, played one game, and then was sent back to Milwaukee.

Some even felt, based on his play in Milwaukee, that he wasn't ready to play in the NHL:

I watched 2 Ads games this season. And what I saw of FF suggests he's not ready for the NHL. One glaring mistake was that he tried to deke a defender carrying the puck out of the defensive zone when he had wide open ice on either side of the Dman. Should have skated around or passed the puck away from the Dman. Instead, the failed deke ended as a giveaway and scoring chance. He basically skated right at the Dman and turned over the puck. The second incident was him trying a wrap around top shelf. He picked up the puck on his blade behind the net and tried to score above the goalies shoulder. Some will say he was being creative, but I have yet to see an NHLer try that move in 15 years of watching the game. Both of these plays indicates a lack of maturity. He probably succeeded with these plays as a junior against lesser skill. He has tremendous physical attributes, but mentally he has a long way to go before earning a permanent spot in Nashville.

Hasn't learned to be a scoring line player in the AHL. Not ready.

 

[Melvin]

I would be patient. He shows flashes of NHL-caliber offense. I posted evidence above that Filip Forsberg needed a season in the AHL to develop his game at even strength. He effectively played himself out of a top-nine role at the start of the 2013-14 NHL season and was reassigned to Milwaukee.

True but that was immediately after he was drafted he got a cup of coffee in Nashville. This is Dahlen's D+3. If what you are saying is true then it reinforces that he should have spent last season in Utica and lost a year of development by going back to Timra..

I don't put a lot of stock in scouting reports from fans whose reputation is unknown so you're wasting your time digging up these quotes.

 

[Blade Paradigm]

True but that was immediately after he was drafted he got a cup of coffee in Nashville. This is Dahlen's D+3. If what you are saying is true then it reinforces that he should have spent last season in Utica and lost a year of development by going back to Timra.

2013-14 was Forsberg's D+2 season. Forsberg, the consensus second-best prospect of the 2012 NHL Draft, did not become an NHL regular until his D+3 season.

Dahlen improved his numbers from his D+1 season to his D+2 season. He wasn't a Top 10 pick; usually, the more NHL-ready players are drafted earlier. Forsberg was a consensus Top 5 pick in 2012: ISS and Craig Button ranked him #2 overall; TSN ranked him #3; Sportsnet ranked him #4; Future Considerations ranked him #5 overall. Often, those who are drafted later have more deficiencies to work on. There are exceptions, but Dahlen isn't one of them. He is improving on a year-to-year basis, which is what matters.

TSN 2012 final rankings: 2012 Final TSN Draft Ranking: 1-10
ISS 2012 final rankings: ISS Draft Rankings (June 2012)
Sportsnet: 2012 NHL Draft: Top 30 Prospects - Sportsnet.ca
Future Considerations 2012 final rankings: Sarnia duo top FC’s Final Ranking for 2012 - Future Considerations - Future Considerations

NHLNumbers.com compiled a consensus ranking for 2012, and Forsberg was #2 overall based on their weighted system: 2012 NHL Draft Top 100 - June Update: Yakupov is Unanimous | NHLNumbers.com

 

[Melvin]

2013-14 was Forsberg's D+2 season.

Dahlen improved his numbers from his D+1 season to his D+2 season. He wasn't a Top 10 pick; usually, the more NHL-ready players are drafted earlier. Often, those who are drafted later have more deficiencies to work on. There are exceptions, but Dahlen isn't one of them. He is improving on a year-to-year basis, which is what matters.

We shall see.

I would hope that he at least makes his nhl debut this year, and puts up roughly a point per game in Utica. That is my expectation for him this season.

Jesper Bratt was a sixth round pick taken from the Allsvenskan in the same draft and he played all of last season in the NHL. Dahlen is falling behind.

 

[Bougieman]

Their individual reputations are immaterial. He's done a good job revealing the commonplace feeling amongst the fanbase who were following the prospects of their team, about where Forsberg was and what he needed to develop and make it to the next level.

 

[Melvin]

Their individual reputations are immaterial. He's done a good job revealing the commonplace feeling amongst the fanbase who were following the prospects of their team, about where Forsberg was and what he needed to develop and make it to the next level.

Sure, and it does nothing to change my point. I acknowledge his position without the quotes.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Goldobin has looked like garbage, so no loss really. He's been given plum opportunities on the top 2 lines and looks out of place against AHL/NHL split squads.

The fact we only have 4 top 6 forwards on our team is a problem, but it doesn't mean we need to gift Goldobin a spot when our tweener-squad outplays him.

I've been fairly vocal about Goldoblins inconsistent play this pre season,but to say he's been 'garbage',or 'looks out of place', is totally out of line..​

 

[Blade Paradigm]

I think the most immediate issue with regards to tonight's game is that it's apparently not being televised on Sportsnet. The Kings' station is broadcasting the game in LA, and NHL Network US is joining the game in-progress.

9:00 PM ET
NHLN-US (JIP), PRIME

Did Sportsnet not want to send a TV crew down to Salt Lake City?

 

[Peter10]

I've been fairly vocal about Goldoblins inconsistent play this pre season,but to say he's been 'garbage',or 'looks out of place', is totally out of line..​

Well true, compared to all the other garbage on this roster he doesnt look out of place at all.

 

[Blade Paradigm]

Well true, compared to all the other garbage on this roster he doesnt look out of place at all.

I thought he played rather well in his debut alongside Elias Pettersson. They seemed to read off of one another well. That chemistry seemed to disappear in subsequent appearances together.



Baertschi was their linemate in the first two games. Gagner was their linemate during the first half of the Flames match.

I'd like to see how Leipsic works with them, considering those two could benefit from having a quick, creative forechecker on their line. If this is a successful combination, then Baertschi can remain with Horvat and Boeser.

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Leipsic-Pettersson-Goldobin

 

[tantalum]

Not surprised to see Dahlen sent down early. It was pretty clear that he has a good amount of work to do before he is NHL ready. He should be in Utica for the first half of the season to work on things and not be bothered with NHL callups. Second half of the season you look to start getting him NHL games.

 

[DDRhockey]

Pettersson shouldnt play anymore preaseason games. I dont think he has more to prove. It is a long season anyway.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I've been fairly vocal about Goldoblins inconsistent play this pre season,but to say he's been 'garbage',or 'looks out of place', is totally out of line..​

What about his game has been good? His defense is terrible, his offense has only showed up on the PP, and he has barely even registered any shots on net.

 

[DDRhockey]

Dahlén seems very disappointed about going down to ahl when talking to swe media.