Potential Minor Leagues Changes
- Thread starter Dr. Fire
- Start date
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
- 4,445
While not fully understanding the structure of minor league hockey the whole thing seems to make sense to me.
Conceptually the following makes sense:
Each team should own its minor league affiliate which would allow complete control over the roster, the coaches and the style of play which would seem to lead to a better environment for developing players.
The minor league affiliate should be relatively close to the pro teams city. Cleveland would be ideal for Columbus. It would help fans of both teams get to know the players better and would probably help attendance for both with pro team fans traveling a couple of hours to watch the prospects and the minor league fans traveling to watch the graduated fan faves.
Keep the leagues separate during the season to minimize travel, reduce costs and allow more time for practice.
Don't know if it could work but it makes sense to me.
Conceptually the following makes sense:
Each team should own its minor league affiliate which would allow complete control over the roster, the coaches and the style of play which would seem to lead to a better environment for developing players.
The minor league affiliate should be relatively close to the pro teams city. Cleveland would be ideal for Columbus. It would help fans of both teams get to know the players better and would probably help attendance for both with pro team fans traveling a couple of hours to watch the prospects and the minor league fans traveling to watch the graduated fan faves.
Keep the leagues separate during the season to minimize travel, reduce costs and allow more time for practice.
Don't know if it could work but it makes sense to me.
I see AHL team as potential marketing tools, in addition to development tools. Imagine the CBJ having their AHL affiliate in Cincinnati - let's call them the Cincinnati Stingers. Thousands of people in Cincinnati would see up and coming Blue Jackets and continue to follow them when they reach the NHL. It also keeps the travel time short for call-ups.
The down side is, if they have to travel long distances for every game because there's no other AHL teams nearby, the wear and tear (and expense) of travel outweighs the marketing benefits. Minor league hockey likes/needs to cram many games during the weekend Thursday-Sunday for good attendance numbers.
The down side is, if they have to travel long distances for every game because there's no other AHL teams nearby, the wear and tear (and expense) of travel outweighs the marketing benefits. Minor league hockey likes/needs to cram many games during the weekend Thursday-Sunday for good attendance numbers.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
- 4,445
So you schedule 3 game series home and away and that minimizes travel issues. If the concept of each team owning their own minor league and having them within a couple of hours drive is workable then the travel should mimic the NHL travel in most cases. For that reason Cleveland would be a slightly better choice than Cincy for the Jackets but not that much that Cincy wouldn't be a great spot.
Jackets- Cleveland
Pittsburgh - Wilkes-Barre
Buffalo- Syracuse
Philadelphia - Hershey
Rangers - New Haven (or wherever their team is )
Isles- Providence
Bruins- Springfield
after that it gets a bit shaky and some teams would probably fold if the closeness model was followed.
Having lived there myself, would you believe Providence is actually closer to Boston than Springfield?
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
- 4,445
The way things are set up now, Springfield is perfect. The fact that 1/3rd of the league is 3 hours away increases practice time. I can't quantify this and I'm sure there's a recency bias but it seems like this affiliation is working better for Columbus than Syracuse did.
About the only benefit Cleveland has over Springfield right now is marketing potential, but I'm not sure having an affiliation there would be as big of a deal as some think it is.
If AHL West does happen, maybe Cleveland makes more sense. But I think the club is really happy with Springfield.
About the only benefit Cleveland has over Springfield right now is marketing potential, but I'm not sure having an affiliation there would be as big of a deal as some think it is.
If AHL West does happen, maybe Cleveland makes more sense. But I think the club is really happy with Springfield.
JacketsFanWest
Registered User
The AHL on the West coast (or at least closer to the teams in the West) is inevitable. The California teams have resorted to temporarily assigning players to ECHL teams (which are in California, despite being the East Coast Hockey League) rather than sending players all the way across the country when they know they will need them back quickly.
If Colorado had an option of a closer AHL team than Cleveland, they would likely change their affiliation.
The three ECHL teams in California are very successful. The team in Ontario, CA averages over 8,000 in attendance a game. Ontario, Bakersfield and Stockton moving up to the AHL needs to happen. Las Vegas makes sense as well for a conference opponent. Abbotsford is still very far, but at least it's not all the way across the US. Maybe an AHL franchise could work there again if there were closer teams in the division.
Either the AHL expands out west, or I could see either the western teams trying to make the ECHL the same level as the AHL or creating a western version of the AHL.
If those types of changes happen, I don't think there's going to be room for Cincinnati to move up the AHL. The ECHL/AHL realignment plan on SBNation (http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/8/7/5976075/ahl-west-echl-chl-realignment-minor-league-hockey) has Springfield moving down to the ECHL because their average attendance is so low, and below many ECHL teams.
If Colorado had an option of a closer AHL team than Cleveland, they would likely change their affiliation.
The three ECHL teams in California are very successful. The team in Ontario, CA averages over 8,000 in attendance a game. Ontario, Bakersfield and Stockton moving up to the AHL needs to happen. Las Vegas makes sense as well for a conference opponent. Abbotsford is still very far, but at least it's not all the way across the US. Maybe an AHL franchise could work there again if there were closer teams in the division.
Either the AHL expands out west, or I could see either the western teams trying to make the ECHL the same level as the AHL or creating a western version of the AHL.
If those types of changes happen, I don't think there's going to be room for Cincinnati to move up the AHL. The ECHL/AHL realignment plan on SBNation (http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/8/7/5976075/ahl-west-echl-chl-realignment-minor-league-hockey) has Springfield moving down to the ECHL because their average attendance is so low, and below many ECHL teams.
Jacket
Registered User
Cincinnati Cyclones
Would love to see the Cincinnati Cyclones move up to the AHL or affiliate with the Jackets as an ECHL team. This is all just because I am in proximity. Cleveland is a very viable option as well.
The marketing opportunities and the ability to keep tabs on players more efficiently is incentive to make moves towards such an affiliation.
The money word is 'synergy.'
Would love to see the Cincinnati Cyclones move up to the AHL or affiliate with the Jackets as an ECHL team. This is all just because I am in proximity. Cleveland is a very viable option as well.
The marketing opportunities and the ability to keep tabs on players more efficiently is incentive to make moves towards such an affiliation.
The money word is 'synergy.'
Here is my minor league realignment. I based a lot of it on location and average attendance.
This oughta spur some debate!
Yes, I know that the Kings own Manchester and the Oilers now own Ontario. I've ignored that for now.
NHL AFILLIATIONS:
Columbus - Cleveland, Cincinnati
Pittsburgh - Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Wheeling
NYR - Hartford, Binghamton
NYI - St. Johns, Indy
New Jersey - Bridgeport, Albany
Philadelphia - Hershey, Lehigh Valley
Washington - Norfolk, Reading
Carolina - Charlotte, South Carolina
Buffalo - Rochester, Elmira
Boston - Providence, Springfield
Detroit - Grand Rapids, Toledo
Montreal - Hamilton, Portland
Ottawa - Manchester, Fort Wayne
Toronto - Toronto, Kalamazoo
Tampa - Orlando, Gwinnett
Florida - Florida, Greensville
Chicago - Chicago, Rockford
Minnesota - Iowa, Quad City
Dallas - Texas, Allen
Colorado - Colorado, Wichita
Winnipeg - Syracuse, Rapid City
Nashville - Milwaukee, St Charles
St. Louis - San Antonio, Missouri
Arizona - Las Vegas, Arizona
LA Kings - Bakersfield, Evansville
Anaheim - Ontario, Tulsa
San Jose - Stockton, Worchester (current AHL affiliate)
Vancouver - Alaska, Utica (current AHL affiliate)
Edmonton - Utah, Oklahoma City (current AHL affiliate)
Calgary - Idaho, Adirondack (current AHL affiliate)
NEW AHL (based on NHL divisions and affiliates, the two conferences play within their own conferences until playoff time to minimize travel)…
EASTERN: ATLANTIC
Providence
Hamilton
Rochester
Toronto
Manchester
Grand Rapids
Orlando
Florida
EASTERN: METROPOLITAN
Cleveland
Scranton/W-B
Hershey
Norfolk
Hartford
Bridgeport
St. Johns
Charlotte
WESTERN: CENTRAL
Iowa
Chicago
Milwaukee
San Antonio
Texas
Syracuse
Colorado
WESTERN: PACIFIC
Bakersfield
Las Vegas
Utah
Stockton
Ontario
Idaho
Alaska
NEW ECHL (I've renamed it the East Central Hockey League, taking CHL merger into account and the likely folding of the Denver franchise. I can't imagine Brampton making it. Arizona and St Charles are sketchy right now. The three conferences play within their own conference until playoff time to minimize travel.)
EAST:
Cincinnati
Toledo
Indy
Evansville
Fort Wayne
Wheeling
Greensville
Gwinnett
South Carolina
Kalamazoo
NORTHEAST
Springfield
Albany
Utica
Adirondack
Binghamton
Portland
Worchester
Elmira
Reading
Lehigh Valley
CENTRAL:
Rockford
Quad City
Missouri
Wichita
Rapid City
St Charles
Allen
Arizona
Tulsa
Oklahoma City
This oughta spur some debate!
Yes, I know that the Kings own Manchester and the Oilers now own Ontario. I've ignored that for now.
NHL AFILLIATIONS:
Columbus - Cleveland, Cincinnati
Pittsburgh - Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Wheeling
NYR - Hartford, Binghamton
NYI - St. Johns, Indy
New Jersey - Bridgeport, Albany
Philadelphia - Hershey, Lehigh Valley
Washington - Norfolk, Reading
Carolina - Charlotte, South Carolina
Buffalo - Rochester, Elmira
Boston - Providence, Springfield
Detroit - Grand Rapids, Toledo
Montreal - Hamilton, Portland
Ottawa - Manchester, Fort Wayne
Toronto - Toronto, Kalamazoo
Tampa - Orlando, Gwinnett
Florida - Florida, Greensville
Chicago - Chicago, Rockford
Minnesota - Iowa, Quad City
Dallas - Texas, Allen
Colorado - Colorado, Wichita
Winnipeg - Syracuse, Rapid City
Nashville - Milwaukee, St Charles
St. Louis - San Antonio, Missouri
Arizona - Las Vegas, Arizona
LA Kings - Bakersfield, Evansville
Anaheim - Ontario, Tulsa
San Jose - Stockton, Worchester (current AHL affiliate)
Vancouver - Alaska, Utica (current AHL affiliate)
Edmonton - Utah, Oklahoma City (current AHL affiliate)
Calgary - Idaho, Adirondack (current AHL affiliate)
NEW AHL (based on NHL divisions and affiliates, the two conferences play within their own conferences until playoff time to minimize travel)…
EASTERN: ATLANTIC
Providence
Hamilton
Rochester
Toronto
Manchester
Grand Rapids
Orlando
Florida
EASTERN: METROPOLITAN
Cleveland
Scranton/W-B
Hershey
Norfolk
Hartford
Bridgeport
St. Johns
Charlotte
WESTERN: CENTRAL
Iowa
Chicago
Milwaukee
San Antonio
Texas
Syracuse
Colorado
WESTERN: PACIFIC
Bakersfield
Las Vegas
Utah
Stockton
Ontario
Idaho
Alaska
NEW ECHL (I've renamed it the East Central Hockey League, taking CHL merger into account and the likely folding of the Denver franchise. I can't imagine Brampton making it. Arizona and St Charles are sketchy right now. The three conferences play within their own conference until playoff time to minimize travel.)
EAST:
Cincinnati
Toledo
Indy
Evansville
Fort Wayne
Wheeling
Greensville
Gwinnett
South Carolina
Kalamazoo
NORTHEAST
Springfield
Albany
Utica
Adirondack
Binghamton
Portland
Worchester
Elmira
Reading
Lehigh Valley
CENTRAL:
Rockford
Quad City
Missouri
Wichita
Rapid City
St Charles
Allen
Arizona
Tulsa
Oklahoma City
Last edited:
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
I like the idea of a Columbus ---> Cleveland (AHL) ---> Cinci. (ECHL) set-up. As has been said, having in-state affiliations would allow fans from all three teams to more easily travel to the other cities to watch prospects / promoted players in action.
The current situation saves money on travel within the AHL, but with teams in-state call ups would more easily, and more quickly be able to travel to their destinations. Plus, the marketing would have significant advantages.
With the Jackets on an upward trajectory, fans in Cinci, and Cleveland would be more inclined to go for it.
Springy has had attendance issues, and I am sure that had a lot to do with the recent ownership change there. I like the idea of NHL teams owning the franchises, but I don't know how that would go over with current AHL team owners, particularly in Cleveland.
Lee, that looks like a very doable alignment, except Syracuse is a bit screwed. Get er done!
The current situation saves money on travel within the AHL, but with teams in-state call ups would more easily, and more quickly be able to travel to their destinations. Plus, the marketing would have significant advantages.
With the Jackets on an upward trajectory, fans in Cinci, and Cleveland would be more inclined to go for it.
Springy has had attendance issues, and I am sure that had a lot to do with the recent ownership change there. I like the idea of NHL teams owning the franchises, but I don't know how that would go over with current AHL team owners, particularly in Cleveland.
Lee, that looks like a very doable alignment, except Syracuse is a bit screwed. Get er done!
Cyclones Rock
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2008
- 10,912
- 7,076
I would naturally love to see an AHL team in Cincinnati with the Bluejackets as the affiliate. However, unless the Jackets are going to own the team and are willing to lose roughly $2 million per year operating the team, it's not going to happen. The ECHL Cyclones are owned by the same group which owns US Bank Arena-where the Cyclones play. I don't see any incentive for this ownership to move up to the AHL.
Currently, the Cyclones are affiliated with both Florida (San Antonio AHL) and Nashville (Milwaukee AHL). The dual-affiliate model has brought the Cyclones 2 Kelly Cups, 3 Finals appearances and 5 Conference Finals appearances in the past 7 years. So, while it would be nice to have the Jackets as an affiliate, the current model has worked just fine, thank you very much. I'd have no problem with the Jackets replacing either of the two current affiliates despite the recent success.
There may be limited marketing benefits for the Cyclones being affiliated with the CBJ. I think that the Jackets would benefit more than the Clones as the Jackets are pretty much a non entity in terms of Cincinnati area interest. A CBJ-Lake Erie Monsters-Cincinnati Cyclones affiliate tree would make a lot of sense in terms of ease of moving prospects from one organization to another as well.
Currently, the Cyclones are affiliated with both Florida (San Antonio AHL) and Nashville (Milwaukee AHL). The dual-affiliate model has brought the Cyclones 2 Kelly Cups, 3 Finals appearances and 5 Conference Finals appearances in the past 7 years. So, while it would be nice to have the Jackets as an affiliate, the current model has worked just fine, thank you very much. I'd have no problem with the Jackets replacing either of the two current affiliates despite the recent success.
There may be limited marketing benefits for the Cyclones being affiliated with the CBJ. I think that the Jackets would benefit more than the Clones as the Jackets are pretty much a non entity in terms of Cincinnati area interest. A CBJ-Lake Erie Monsters-Cincinnati Cyclones affiliate tree would make a lot of sense in terms of ease of moving prospects from one organization to another as well.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
- 18,087
- 535
Keep in mind that the two-affiliate model may be going away as a possibility after this season if the ECHL/CHL merger happens.
Ah, I see everyone's on board with my idea from four years ago.
One significant difference. We're working with the existing franchises. The only ones getting tossed out are two weak CHL franchises with avg attendance below 3k. No new minor league franchises are being added.
hf031
Registered User
Long time Clevelander here, who moved to NC a few years ago...
On the Avalanche board, this was just posted:
http://www.howlings.net/2014/08/21/cantlons-corner-how-the-west-was-built/
Hard to know if this situation will play out, but it would certainly set up a Columbus/Cleveland affiliation. The Monsters have been quite successful (8,144/game last season) despite very little on-ice success (one playoff appearance in seven years), and Cleveland has really proven to be a viable market under Gilbert's ownership. Joining with the Blue Jackets would only help; I think there is a huge untapped market of casual fans in Cleveland who will start paying attention to the big club if it can happen. Heck, during the Columbus postseason run this year, my social media feed was blowing up with otherwise apathetic folks who were watching.
I would go out on a limb to say that most fans would probably prefer lining up with the Blue Jackets over the Avs - the affiliation has been strong so far, but Columbus simply makes more sense on many levels. Particularly if the AHL's version of Manifest Destiny is going to unfold this soon.
On the Avalanche board, this was just posted:
http://www.howlings.net/2014/08/21/cantlons-corner-how-the-west-was-built/
Hard to know if this situation will play out, but it would certainly set up a Columbus/Cleveland affiliation. The Monsters have been quite successful (8,144/game last season) despite very little on-ice success (one playoff appearance in seven years), and Cleveland has really proven to be a viable market under Gilbert's ownership. Joining with the Blue Jackets would only help; I think there is a huge untapped market of casual fans in Cleveland who will start paying attention to the big club if it can happen. Heck, during the Columbus postseason run this year, my social media feed was blowing up with otherwise apathetic folks who were watching.
I would go out on a limb to say that most fans would probably prefer lining up with the Blue Jackets over the Avs - the affiliation has been strong so far, but Columbus simply makes more sense on many levels. Particularly if the AHL's version of Manifest Destiny is going to unfold this soon.
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
Most fans here in Columbus that I have talked to would also like to see such an affiliation. As a Columbus Clippers fan, I have very much enjoyed watching players from the Indians farm system move through Columbus to the big club.
Problem has been that our management has always opted for the more favorable travel distances for teams located on the east coast in the AHL, rather than proximity to the CBJ.
Maybe now with JD and JK at the helm, and with the inevitable minor league restructuring, the CBJ will look more favorably at in-state minor league affiliation.
