Poor attendance

[Inkling]

Toronto is not a hockey city like Ottawa is. Its pretty much leafs or bust. I moved to toronto a few years back and lived in ottawa during the 2009 tournament. The hype around and in Ottawa was really solid and it was just a celebration of the game no matter who you cheered for. In Toronto its leafs or nothing. Even a lot of people in my age group (20's) care more about the raptors than they do the leafs or hockey. Leafs still run the sports market in toronto but man in the early 2000's it was something else here

Ottawa 2009 and the WJC tournaments around that time (Saskatoon/Regina, Calgary/Edmonton etc.) were really the peak of the tournament. I went to several relegation round games in Ottawa and there was excellent attendance at those games as well (as well as being on local TV). All the games were really well attended and the tickets were far from cheap but were fairly priced and the packages that they sold for Canada's games, as well as a really fan friendly online secondary ticket marketplace made it easy and inexpensive to get to some of the 'lesser' games if you just wanted to take in the event.

They have killed the proverbial goose that laid the golden egg by making the ticket prices ridiculous, not ensuring that cheap tickets to secondary games are available to fans and holding it in almost the exact same market (Toronto, Buffalo) year after year so it's no longer a special occasion.

 

[Habsawce]

Stop putting the World Juniors in NHL cities. It's not that complicated. Host cities should be junior hot beds, where people actually care about these players other than the 1 or 2 that their NHL team drafted.

 

[Judas Tavares]

As someone from Toronto who has been watching this tournament since 2000, I'll say this. I prefer when the tournament is in Europe.

I also do enjoy the Halifaxs, Saskatoons etc... But here are some reasons why.

-It felt special that this was an international tournament, now that it has basically been within a two hour drive of me 4 times since 2011, it feels less international to me cause it is right here. That may sound weird, but it just feels like another event that Toronto has (We never used to get anything, and now we've had too much! Don't forget the PanAms as well).

-Being in Europe, the games are in the morning, and maybe this is childish, but that "waking up on boxing day to watch Canada play" feeling is real. I take vacation (but can't afford to go anywhere) during the Christmas break, so I have plenty of time to watch the tourney. Waking up early with nowhere to go, and watching a game over breakfast and coffee is amazing. Now, games are primetime, competing with NHL and NBA, so I have to prioritize. Early in the morning, nothing competes with the WJC.

-The European crowds. They are amazing. Its the same corporate Leafs crowd here in Toronto. Well not quite. It's a bit more rambunctious, but it does not compare with the joyous European crowd which adds an extra element to the tournament.

-Yes, I love the Canada-US rivalry, but I love seeing the others such as Sweden-Finland. But when it is here, you just don't feel it.

As others have mentioned, it needs to move away from these huge markets. I'd love to see it in jr hockey places such as Kelowna, Moncton etc... As well as US cities. Somewhere in Minnesota is dying for this maybe Duluth sharing with Minneapolis, as mentioned, the Grand Forks year was amazing. What about even Rochester, Minnesota and Dubuque or Des Moines? Maybe that is going too far. And of course, more in Europe.

 

[cbcwpg]

Canada should only have this tourney once every 4 years. If the rest of the hockey world won't support it, then cancel the whole thing.

 

[Inkling]

Stop putting the World Juniors in NHL cities. It's not that complicated. Host cities should be junior hot beds, where people actually care about these players other than the 1 or 2 that their NHL team drafted.

The highest attended tournaments were all in NHL cities. The buildings in most CHL cities are too small. Just price the tickets reasonably and you'll sell out; it doesn't even have to be 'cheap', just not extortionate.

 

[Chainshot]

maybe im off here but could people maybe getting tired of it since its every year?

Novelty is a factor. If it hadn't been in the GTA last year, I'm sure it would be more interesting to fans in the Golden Horseshoe. Similarly, if the Sabres weren't a dumpster fire, there would be more hockey interest in the immediate area for fairweather fans to make it out. Then there is the weather deterrent which is going to turn away some of those who were thinking about it but haven't bought yet. But if it was less expensive outright? There would be attendees.

 

[Samsonite23]

I really don't even get how that is an excuse for Canadians not going down.

I went shopping all day in Edmonton and it was a zoo everywhere. Even South Common where it's not even a mall, where you have to walk everywhere or keep getting into your vehicle and drive.

Come on now breh! Grow a pair! Cant be afraid of the cold if you're a hockey fan

Lol. I mean, I'm going to the outdoor game either way. Paid enough money for those tickets. But as far as a game like Slovakia in a group stage game at 8 on a Thursday...the weather makes it easy to stay home.

A lot of people seem to have that same attitude of "What do mean? It's only a little cold." but I don't exactly make a lot of money, and it being uncomfortably cold is a swaying factor in me going or not. It's not the only factor, but it's one of the factors. Multiple poster did a good job summarizing some of them above.

 

[Habsawce]

The highest attended tournaments were all in NHL cities. The buildings in most CHL cities are too small. Just price the tickets reasonably and you'll sell out; it doesn't even have to be 'cheap', just not extortionate.

I'd rather have a packed arena that seats 5-10k with rabid fans that actually watch and invest in junior players. Maybe that's just me, but it's not just about making the most money possible. Having these tournaments in places like London, Kitchener, Guelph etc brings in a lot of revenue for those cities as well.

 

[Yeah15]

-Being in Europe, the games are in the morning, and maybe this is childish, but that "waking up on boxing day to watch Canada play" feeling is real. I take vacation (but can't afford to go anywhere) during the Christmas break, so I have plenty of time to watch the tourney. Waking up early with nowhere to go, and watching a game over breakfast and coffee is amazing. Now, games are primetime, competing with NHL and NBA, so I have to prioritize. Early in the morning, nothing competes with the WJC.

Not at all, I love when the tournament is in Europe for the same reason. I'm always up at the crack of dawn and have the christmas week off, love getting up early with a coffee and watching hockey for six hours until the day really begins around noon.

 

[Confucius]

As someone from Toronto who has been watching this tournament since 2000, I'll say this. I prefer when the tournament is in Europe.

I also do enjoy the Halifaxs, Saskatoons etc... But here are some reasons why.

-It felt special that this was an international tournament, now that it has basically been within a two hour drive of me 4 times since 2011, it feels less international to me cause it is right here. That may sound weird, but it just feels like another event that Toronto has (We never used to get anything, and now we've had too much! Don't forget the PanAms as well).

-Being in Europe, the games are in the morning, and maybe this is childish, but that "waking up on boxing day to watch Canada play" feeling is real. I take vacation (but can't afford to go anywhere) during the Christmas break, so I have plenty of time to watch the tourney. Waking up early with nowhere to go, and watching a game over breakfast and coffee is amazing. Now, games are primetime, competing with NHL and NBA, so I have to prioritize. Early in the morning, nothing competes with the WJC.

-The European crowds. They are amazing. Its the same corporate Leafs crowd here in Toronto. Well not quite. It's a bit more rambunctious, but it does not compare with the joyous European crowd which adds an extra element to the tournament.

-Yes, I love the Canada-US rivalry, but I love seeing the others such as Sweden-Finland. But when it is here, you just don't feel it.

As others have mentioned, it needs to move away from these huge markets. I'd love to see it in jr hockey places such as Kelowna, Moncton etc... As well as US cities. Somewhere in Minnesota is dying for this maybe Duluth sharing with Minneapolis, as mentioned, the Grand Forks year was amazing. What about even Rochester, Minnesota and Dubuque or Des Moines? Maybe that is going too far. And of course, more in Europe.

The European crowds are non existent, why do you think it’s held in Canada so often. I can remember watching games where it looked like only people related to the players were in attendance.

 

[BalticWarrior]

Not at all, I love when the tournament is in Europe for the same reason. I'm always up at the crack of dawn and have the christmas week off, love getting up early with a coffee and watching hockey for six hours until the day really begins around noon.

Yeah but tourneys in Europe also dont have amazing attendence except for home games.

 

[Yeah15]

Yeah but tourneys in Europe also dont have amazing attendence except for home games.

Oh yeah I agree, it's definitely just a selfish reason for myself why I enjoy the tournaments in Europe.
Anyone have an idea on the rough timeline for when they announce the host for the tournament in Canada in 2021?

 

[Pouchkine]

It's been an overrated tournament for so long, I'm glad the fans in Canada have finally smarten up. It was empty in Montreal the last few years and yesterday was such a nice thing too see!

 

[BalticWarrior]

It's been an overrated tournament for so long, I'm glad the fans in Canada have finally smarten up. It was empty in Montreal the last few years and yesterday was such a nice thing too see!

Why do you say that?

 

[Pouchkine]

The best U20 players are not there. The pool of players in most nations is too small to be competitive year in year out in junior tournaments especially when they lack their top players. Canada should win this thing almost every year if Hockey Canada was focused on producing great players. This tournament had a real charm in the 80's 90's and even 00's. For the past 5 years or so it's been only a tsn marketing thing and huge cash grab. The players are not paid and if you think Hockey Canada puts the money back in youth hockey and builds new rinks think again, most of it goes into the pocket of the higher ranks stiffs at Hockey Canada...

The format was great when it was 1st place in the semis and the 2nd vs. 3rd in the 1/4's. Now the round robin is useless, 8 teams go through out of 10 when there's only 5-6 good teams...

 

[Yeah15]

The best U20 players are not there. The pool of players in most nations is too small to be competitive year in year out in junior tournaments especially when they lack their top players. Canada should win this thing almost every year if Hockey Canada was focused on producing great players. This tournament had a real charm in the 80's 90's and even 00's. For the past 5 years or so it's been only a tsn marketing thing and huge cash grab.

The format was great when it was 1st place in the semis and the 2nd vs. 3rd in the 1/4's. Now the round robin is useless, 8 teams go through out of 10 when there's only 5-6 good teams...

Yep, the big matchup of the round-robin (ex CAN/US, RUS/SWE) used to be a very important game because you'd get the bye and an extra day of rest. Now it's meaningless because even if you lose you're still in virtually the same situation as the #1 seed. But 2 extra games = extra $$$ which is the main reason for the tournament, I suppose.

 

[golfortennis]

While NHL prices are probably unreasonable, i still believe if the WJC had retained its initial hype and prestige, people would be willing to shell out a bit extra to see the next NHL stars in the making. Especially in Canada, arent you guys supposed to have hockey as a religion?

The hype is strictly TSN driven. People like to talk about "Gretzky's coming out party" or whatever, but no one cared about the event back then. Matter of fact, I'd say the biggest thing that put it on the map was the brawl in 87.

If hockey was the religion it was made out to be, the AHL teams would draw to the same level as the NHL teams.

 

[Judas Tavares]

The European crowds are non existent, why do you think it’s held in Canada so often. I can remember watching games where it looked like only people related to the players were in attendance.

I guess I don't notice it because they are still more energetic, so it seems like the arena is full. Also, seeing an arena I am familiar with such as ACC, KeyBank Center or Bell Center empty is a lot more noticeable to the eye than a European arena I've never seen before.

 

[donghabs98]

Here's a question. How do ticket prices this year compared to 2011? 2011 turnout was pretty good.

 

[BalticWarrior]

The hype is strictly TSN driven. People like to talk about "Gretzky's coming out party" or whatever, but no one cared about the event back then. Matter of fact, I'd say the biggest thing that put it on the map was the brawl in 87.

If hockey was the religion it was made out to be, the AHL teams would draw to the same level as the NHL teams.

So is it just that TSN hype doesnt work anymore?

 

[Judas Tavares]

So is it just that TSN hype doesnt work anymore?

The TSN thing is interesting. Many likely complain it is the same thing every year, which it essentially is. The same tournament with the same strong countries competing for medals. There is very little TSN could do I would think to switch it up.

I personally do think the marquee name thing is actually a factor. 15 years ago and beyond, the top young talent didn't always make the NHL, so they played in the WJC. Then when the tournament peaked, you had the lockout team in 2005 which likely got everyone hooked, which followed up with a Canadian 5 peat. In that time, while more young players made the NHL, you still had Crosby, Toews, Stamkos and Tavares in the tournament during those years. I think the idea of the 17 year old phenom who makes the squad is appealing to everyone, including NHL tanking teams' fans.

You had McDavid in 2015 (which again, was part of a Canadian gold medal like the phenoms in the 5-peat). But other than that, the names just haven't been the same since those years. Hockey Canada doesn't seem to take the 17 year olds, and some of them by the time next year rolls around, are NHL fixtures. So certain names people may want to see miss out entirely. (Disclosure, the 2018 draft looks like quite a down year for Canada, so not much could be done about this, this year.)

Yes, you don't need phenoms or your team's top 10 pick to enjoy the tournament, but I think the overhyping of players, especially by Pierre, have also caused a bit of a lull. Without phenoms, you then get the Ryan O'Marras, Stefan Della Roveres, Patrice Cormiers.... I could go on and on, who are overhyped like crazy and don't carve out a career. After years of this, some may feel that if there isn't a phenom, all these guys are "just another kid". Not that there is anything wrong with that, but star power draws. Digging deeper, the Canadian roster only has 5 players drafted by a Canadian Team, while only one in Mete can be considered blue chip. No phenoms and the best players being, for example, a Blues or Lightning or Ducks prospect, again may not draw some viewers in Canada.

 

[Rangerette]

Here's a question. How do ticket prices this year compared to 2011? 2011 turnout was pretty good.

We went in 2011 and our tickets then were $493 for upper bowl. At the time, the Canadian dollar was at par or better. This year the upper bowl was $690, plus almost 30% exchange (we bought in Nov 2016). So pretty close to double.

As one poster says, the dollar has been low for a few years, but that doesn’t make it any less painful, for tickets, hotels and meals.

There is also the political climate in the US, which is factoring in to our ongoing vacation decisions.

Plus, the fact that the Canadian world junior teams aren’t as successful or exciting as in the past.

We came this year, went in 2011 to Buffalo, and to Sweden for 2014, but did not attend when it was in Canada for the two Toronto/Montreal tournaments because of pricing and the format with splitting preliminary and medal rounds between the two cities that are 7 hours apart.

So for us, that is how it shapes up and while we are here this year, the crowds are disappointing. The bright side is that our seats have been upgraded for the two non-Canada games yesterday because of poor attendance. They can save $ not paying people to run concessions on the upper bowl and it looks better on TV.

Last year my husband wrote to Hockey Canada to appeal to them to return the tournament to its junior roots and put it back into smaller cities. No response - but perhaps continuing low attendance will be heard.

 

[donghabs98]

We went in 2011 and our tickets then were $493 for upper bowl. At the time, the Canadian dollar was at par or better. This year the upper bowl was $690, plus almost 30% exchange (we bought in Nov 2016). So pretty close to double.

As one poster says, the dollar has been low for a few years, but that doesn’t make it any less painful, for tickets, hotels and meals.

There is also the political climate in the US, which is factoring in to our ongoing vacation decisions.

Plus, the fact that the Canadian world junior teams aren’t as successful or exciting as in the past.

We came this year, went in 2011 to Buffalo, and to Sweden for 2014, but did not attend when it was in Canada for the two Toronto/Montreal tournaments because of pricing and the format with splitting preliminary and medal rounds between the two cities that are 7 hours apart.

So for us, that is how it shapes up and while we are here this year, the crowds are disappointing. The bright side is that our seats have been upgraded for the two non-Canada games yesterday because of poor attendance. They can save $ not paying people to run concessions on the upper bowl and it looks better on TV.

Last year my husband wrote to Hockey Canada to appeal to them to return the tournament to its junior roots and put it back into smaller cities. No response - but perhaps continuing low attendance will be heard.

You touched on some good points here. Team Canada no longer dominates like they used to. It's a reflection in some flaws in the development program and the simple fact other countries are producing stronger generations of players. In turn it's harder to get causal fans to jump in and attend/watch games.

Another thing is fatigue. I think Canadians are getting tired of the TSN hype train in part because of Team Canada's recent performances and because the World Juniors are that new anymore. Back in 2003-2010 the World Juniors were relativity new to most Canadians because it wasn't that well known before. The novelty of watching hockey during the holidays and winning was new and appealing. It's not that new of a concept anymore and mix in with Canada's recent performances the tournament isn't as appealing.

Finally the prices are ridiculous. It's pro level prices to watch junior players. Charge tickets at $15-$20 and no doubt people would show.

I like the World Juniors but the way the tournament has been organised and progressing in recent years was simply unsustainable and needs to be changed.

 

[Quiet Jack]

There is zero buzz in Buffalo for this tournament. I remember in 2011 this thing was huge. I ended up going to the gold medal game and it was awesome (lol Canada). And God bless anyone going to the outdoor game.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

Vancouver should do well next year, the West is always good for this tournament. Calgary/Edmonton did exceptionally well in 2012. Christ, in Calgary I remember going to a game between two bottom feeders in Switzerland and Latvia and sitting in the nosebleeds. 14,000 people were in attendance for that one.