Poor attendance

[snipes]

The point that you are missing is that the attendances for smaller markets like Saskatoon, Regina, etc. are better than Montreal, therefore they should be the ones hosting these events. No one has to be interested in every level of hockey, but cater to the places that ARE interested in that level, not to the ones that aren't.

It's not rocket science.

Yup, this is the point many of us are making.

 

[snipes]

Oh please. Living in Toronto is expensive. Where would you rather spend your money? The big 3 and the Leafs/Lowry and DeRozan's Raps or a junior tourney without any marquee Canadian names.

The tickets for Canada games are stupid expensive. I could go to a Raps game with that money. Guess which one I'm choosing.

Exactly why the WJC should be hosted in the Maritimes or on the Prairies. That exact attitude summarizes it perfectly.

 

[Canadian Finn]

I can appreciate your point and your passion but a quick check of tomorrow night's game vs. Latvia tells me what you're saying is not quite true.

I just took 4 tickets in the lower bowl in the corner. After taxes, convenience fees, delivery fees, etc it works out to $820 for 4 tickets.

After parking (Toronto prices), dinner, snacks, etc you are looking at $1000 dollars for a family of 4 for just "decent" lower bowl seats. These aren't even the best seats in the house, just four lower bowl seats in the corners. No family of 4 in Regina or Saskatoon would sell out an 18,800 seat arena at those prices.

If people around here wanted to spend that kind of money for Junior Hockey they could buy 2 Oshawa Generals/Mississauga Steelheads or Barrie Colts season tickets - just as you could buy 2 Pats or Blades season tickets - for the exact same price as opposed to one single, entirely forgettable 6-1 (likely) win for Canada.

Or a family of 4 could spend $100 and buy 4 tickets to a Generals/Steelheads/Colts game for 60 minutes of Junior hockey featuring some of the best young players in the country and still come home with $900 dollars more than they would seeing Canada/Latvia.

It reflects poorly on TSN and Hockey Canada for extortionate pricing, not Toronto/Montreal as cities that enjoy watching hockey.

Please, if you need any assistance with secondary market purchasing, PM me, or simply ask.

You spent $600+ more than you had to.

One thing for a rich business man who is putting it on his companies AMEX to do that, but your talking about bringing your family.....

Scalpers were almost giving tickets away to the game you purchased.

 

[Mats13]

Exactly why the WJC should be hosted in the Maritimes or on the Prairies. That exact attitude summarizes it perfectly.

I actually agree with that. Toronto/Montreal shouldn't host the WJC. I can't speak for Montreal, but in Toronto, Leafs tickets are already really expensive. There's only so much hockey you can afford.

Secondly, can you really blame people from Toronto for choosing pro sports over the WJC? Especially this year, with the lack of quality names on the Canadian team.

 

[snowmobile]

Please, if you need any assistance with secondary market purchasing, PM me, or simply ask.

You spent $600+ more than you had to.

One thing for a rich business man who is putting it on his companies AMEX to do that, but your talking about bringing your family.....

Scalpers were almost giving tickets away to the game you purchased.

I am pretty sure he took those seats for an example to see what it would cost, not that he bought those seats literally. Stop acting like you're the only one who knows how to type in stubhub on Google.

 

[Canadian Finn]

I am pretty sure he took those seats for an example to see what it would cost, not that he bought those seats literally. Stop acting like you're the only one who knows how to type in stubhub on Google.

I'm far from the only one. I would think there wouldn't be anyone who doesn't know....

But then reading this thread, with the number of folks complaining about ticket prices, I start to think otherwise.

 

[snipes]

I actually agree with that. Toronto/Montreal shouldn't host the WJC. I can't speak for Montreal, but in Toronto, Leafs tickets are already really expensive. There's only so much hockey you can afford.

Secondly, can you really blame people from Toronto for choosing pro sports over the WJC? Especially this year, with the lack of quality names on the Canadian team.

I don't blame the Toronto people at all for preferring other forms of entertainment. Toronto is a diverse, world class metropolis. You have the Leafs/Jays/Raptors (killing it right now)/Toronto FC/Argos/etc.

For people on the prairies hockey is basically the only sport that matters. CFL football fills the gap during the offseason. For places in rural Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba hockey means everything. For smaller centres like Brandon, Moose Jaw, Swift Current, etc. the junior team is the biggest ticket in town.

Even in major centres, hockey is king. Our colder climate allows us to have 100s of outdoor rinks, the game is culturally significant to people here. Sometimes I think (and I mean this kindly), people living in a place like Toronto don't fully get how important hockey is to people on the prairies.

Life in the west is very different than life in Toronto/Montreal (I say this as an urban white collar professional in the west). Hockey brings all social classes together on the prairies. I don't know, it's so embedded you don't notice it until you think about it. Lawyers, doctors, professors, etc. will get together with trades guys they've known for decades on the outdoor rinks. It's a social and culturally important part of life here. Hockey dominates.

Sorry, this sounds "ah shucks" and preachy, but hockey really is important on the prairies. Give the WJC to communities that actually would appreciate it more. And I don't blame people in TO for preferring the Raptors to the WJC, but people here would take the WJC over the NBA every day of the week.

 

[Canadian Finn]

I don't blame the Toronto people at all for preferring other forms of entertainment. Toronto is a diverse, world class metropolis. You have the Leafs/Jays/Raptors (killing it right now)/Toronto FC/Argos/etc.

For people on the prairies hockey is basically the only sport that matters. CFL football fills the gap during the offseason. For places in rural Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba hockey means everything. For smaller centres like Brandon, Moose Jaw, Swift Current, etc. the junior team is the biggest ticket in town.

Even in major centres, hockey is king. Our colder climate allows us to have 100s of outdoor rinks, the game is culturally significant to people here. Sometimes I think (and I mean this kindly), people living in a place like Toronto don't fully get how important hockey is to people on the prairies.

Life in the west is very different than life in Toronto/Montreal (I say this as an urban white collar professional in the west). Hockey brings all social classes together on the prairies. I don't know, it's so embedded you don't notice it until you think about it. Lawyers, doctors, professors, etc. will get together with trades guys they've known for decades on the outdoor rinks. It's a social and culturally important part of life here. Hockey dominates.

Sorry, this sounds "ah shucks" and preachy, but hockey really is important on the prairies. Give the WJC to communities that actually would appreciate it more. And I don't blame people in TO for preferring the Raptors to the WJC, but people here would take the WJC over the NBA every day of the week.

As an "almost" Torontonian (live in Hamilton, work directly across the street from ACC), your comments are spot on.

How you describe hockey is how we look at the Ticats here in Hamilton.

 

[Semantics]

Exactly why the WJC should be hosted in the Maritimes or on the Prairies. That exact attitude summarizes it perfectly.

No one would go to the games at these prices in the Maritimes or Prairies either, the Alberta economy is not exactly booming right now, Winnipeg has the Jets, and nobody lives in the maritimes.

 

[snipes]

No one would go to the games at these prices in the Maritimes or Prairies either, the Alberta economy is not exactly booming right now, Winnipeg has the Jets, and nobody lives in the maritimes.

The secondary market would spread quickly. People would spread the word.

Yeah, times aren't great here in Alberta, but we'll bounce back like we always do. The entrepreneurial spirit is strong here.

Those ticket packages are extortion though I understand your guys point there, especially when Stubhub has tickets going for $6 right now.

 

[OilerPensfan97]

No one would go to the games at these prices in the Maritimes or Prairies either, the Alberta economy is not exactly booming right now, Winnipeg has the Jets, and nobody lives in the maritimes.

Canada games would easily sell out in Halifax.

 

[patnyrnyg]

The point that you are missing is that the attendances for smaller markets like Saskatoon, Regina, etc. are better than Montreal, therefore they should be the ones hosting these events. No one has to be interested in every level of hockey, but cater to the places that ARE interested in that level, not to the ones that aren't.

It's not rocket science.

I am not missing anything. I was simply asking about the whole "Montreal is not a HOCKEY CITY, it is only a HABS CITY".

However, to your point. Ever think Hockey Canada tried this as an experiment? Maybe the idea that bringing the premiere junior hockey tournament to Montreal might help spur an interest in junior hockey? People are on this forum constantly talking about the NHL and the Olympics. The argument I read over and over again is, "Here is a chance to 'grow the game'. Introduce the game with the world best players to millions of potential new fans. Off the top of my head, doesn't more than 50% of Canada's population live in either the GTA or Montreal and it's surrounding suburbs?

Or they might of thought, "Why not try holding the tournament in the country's 2 largest cities?" The idea that Canadians would travel to the cities, make it a vacation? I can drive to Montreal in 5 1/2-6 hours. If the US had played any games in Montreal, the wife and I were thinking of making the drive.

 

[snipes]

I am not missing anything. I was simply asking about the whole "Montreal is not a HOCKEY CITY, it is only a HABS CITY".

However, to your point. Ever think Hockey Canada tried this as an experiment? Maybe the idea that bringing the premiere junior hockey tournament to Montreal might help spur an interest in junior hockey? People are on this forum constantly talking about the NHL and the Olympics. The argument I read over and over again is, "Here is a chance to 'grow the game'. Introduce the game with the world best players to millions of potential new fans. Off the top of my head, doesn't more than 50% of Canada's population live in either the GTA or Montreal and it's surrounding suburbs?

Or they might of thought, "Why not try holding the tournament in the country's 2 largest cities?" The idea that Canadians would travel to the cities, make it a vacation? I can drive to Montreal in 5 1/2-6 hours. If the US had played any games in Montreal, the wife and I were thinking of making the drive.

Man, come on. TO is like 2.6M and MTL is like 1.65M.

Nearly 90% of us don't reside in the centre of the world. We would travel to the metropolis at Christmas time? That, or we get together with our family in our own neck of the woods. Canada is a vast country.

 

[93LEAFS]

Man, come on. TO is like 2.6M and MTL is like 1.65M.

Nearly 90% of us don't reside in the centre of the world. We would travel to the metropolis at Christmas time? That, or we get together with our family in our own neck of the woods. Canada is a vast country.

About a 1/4 of the Canadian population lives in the Golden Horseshoe (Basically Oshawa to Niagra Falls going across the shore of Lake Ontario estimated population of 8.759 in 2011), then when you factor in places While its spread out, over a 1/3rd of Canada's population is in Ontario, with almost 90% of it living in Southern Ontario and Ottawa.

 

[The Drop]

The secondary market would spread quickly. People would spread the word.

Yeah, times aren't great here in Alberta, but we'll bounce back like we always do. The entrepreneurial spirit is strong here.

Those ticket packages are extortion though I understand your guys point there, especially when Stubhub has tickets going for $6 right now.

you mean the lifeline... errr pipeline.

 

[snipes]

About a 1/4 of the Canadian population lives in the Golden Horseshoe (Basically Oshawa to Niagra Falls going across the shore of Lake Ontario estimated population of 8.759 in 2011), then when you factor in places While its spread out, over a 1/3rd of Canada's population is in Ontario, with almost 90% of it living in Southern Ontario and Ottawa.

Is Oshawa part of the GTA?

Yes, Ontario and Quebec are the most important parts of Canada.

 

[snipes]

you mean the lifeline... errr pipeline.

You hippies out on the coast don't make it easy

(I actually spent some time living on the coast during University, I'm teasing).

 

[patnyrnyg]

Man, come on. TO is like 2.6M and MTL is like 1.65M.

Nearly 90% of us don't reside in the centre of the world. We would travel to the metropolis at Christmas time? That, or we get together with our family in our own neck of the woods. Canada is a vast country.

I am not talking about JUST the cities themselves. They both have surrounding areas which are heavily populated. Lots of people travel and take vacations at Christmas time? Ever notice the price of flights? Why do you think they are so high this time of year? Are you getting together with family everyday this week? I saw my family for Xmas day, my wife's family the day after. Next Sunday, going to my parents. Last year did the same and took a 3-day trip to Nashville for Rangers-Preds. Thought about heading out to Arizona for tonight's Rangers-Coyotes game, but we were low on miles so didn't do so.

 

[snipes]

I am not talking about JUST the cities themselves. They both have surrounding areas which are heavily populated. Lots of people travel and take vacations at Christmas time? Ever notice the price of flights? Why do you think they are so high this time of year?

Yeah, it's stupid this time of year. I thought you meant just the GTA proper.

Either way, Hockey Canada/IIHF assumed wrong I suppose.

 

[patnyrnyg]

About a 1/4 of the Canadian population lives in the Golden Horseshoe (Basically Oshawa to Niagra Falls going across the shore of Lake Ontario estimated population of 8.759 in 2011), then when you factor in places While its spread out, over a 1/3rd of Canada's population is in Ontario, with almost 90% of it living in Southern Ontario and Ottawa.

OK, that's what it was. I knew i had heard this and could have sworn I had heard if you add the Montreal Metropolitan area in it grows to about 1/2, but I could be wrong or the person who said it to me could have been wrong.

 

[93LEAFS]

Is Oshawa part of the GTA?

Yes, Ontario and Quebec are the most important parts of Canada.

Some consider it, other don't. I know there are multiple people who live that far out who still commute to downtown Toronto for work. The GTA has roughly 6 million, using the Golden Horseshoe measurment adds about 2.7. I'd say the Golden Horseshoe measurment is more accurate reflection of Southern Ontario. If you were here and drove along the 401 or the QEW, you would see that there is little seperating these areas, it is basically continuing suburbs between Oshawa and Hamilton (with Toronto in the middle) and the Toronto suburbs basically merge into Hamilton and these developed areas carry all the way to the Niagra and Fort Erie crossings. These cities and suburbs have basically grown into each other. It is not like when you drive from Kitchener/Waterloo to London where there is a noticeable separation of Farmland and Greenspace.

 

[jwise514]

Quick general comment on this thread. I live 7 minutes by foot from the Bell Centre, I am a huge hockey fan, I have ties to people organizing the tournament, playing in the tournament, and I will not be attending a single game. My reasoning is as follows:

1) lack of parity and entertainment when considered in relation to the price of admission: admittedly Denmark has played two exciting games but the format of the tournament is such that for the price of tickets everyone is getting better value by waiting until the semi-finals to go;
2) other priorities, financial and time wise: I have family and friends to entertain over the holiday season, a lot of the round robin games fall midday and I am more inclined to watch a period or two on TV than spend the majority of my day at the rink.

But enough about me, here are some general observations from living in downtown Montreal:

1) there is absolutely ZERO ambiance related to the tournament: you can walk any central street in the city without a single indication that an international event is ongoing within a short distance of where you are. Why is there not a fan village, fan fest, promotional outdoor rink set up in the city centre?
2) I have scarcely seen any advertising for the event both since it started and in the weeks and months beforehand: I would guess that most casual hockey fans do not have any awareness that the tournament is happening here, and quite frankly I don't blame them. The Habs have had brief advertisements on the video board during games and there are small advertisements in newspapers but otherwise nada, nothing.
3) further to my first two points, there has been a complete lack of story telling by the organizing committee. People want to know who the heroes and villains are and what countries and players other than Canada and its team have compelling stories. From my perspective this has simply not occurred. What would attract a casual fan to a group of random Swedish and Danish kids playing hockey? Obviously there are tales to tell but the target audience hasn't been provided with inspiration to invest emotionally in the event.

Ultimately it's real shame that attendance is so low but I have my ear to the ground and my sense of it is that it's an organizing issue, not a statement about the dedication of Montrealers to hockey,

 

[patnyrnyg]

Quick general comment on this thread. I live 7 minutes by foot from the Bell Centre, I am a huge hockey fan, I have ties to people organizing the tournament, playing in the tournament, and I will not be attending a single game. My reasoning is as follows:

1) lack of parity and entertainment when considered in relation to the price of admission: admittedly Denmark has played two exciting games but the format of the tournament is such that for the price of tickets everyone is getting better value by waiting until the semi-finals to go;
2) other priorities, financial and time wise: I have family and friends to entertain over the holiday season, a lot of the round robin games fall midday and I am more inclined to watch a period or two on TV than spend the majority of my day at the rink.

But enough about me, here are some general observations from living in downtown Montreal:

1) there is absolutely ZERO ambiance related to the tournament: you can walk any central street in the city without a single indication that an international event is ongoing within a short distance of where you are. Why is there not a fan village, fan fest, promotional outdoor rink set up in the city centre?
2) I have scarcely seen any advertising for the event both since it started and in the weeks and months beforehand: I would guess that most casual hockey fans do not have any awareness that the tournament is happening here, and quite frankly I don't blame them. The Habs have had brief advertisements on the video board during games and there are small advertisements in newspapers but otherwise nada, nothing.
3) further to my first two points, there has been a complete lack of story telling by the organizing committee. People want to know who the heroes and villains are and what countries and players other than Canada and its team have compelling stories. From my perspective this has simply not occurred. What would attract a casual fan to a group of random Swedish and Danish kids playing hockey? Obviously there are tales to tell but the target audience hasn't been provided with inspiration to invest emotionally in the event.

Ultimately it's real shame that attendance is so low but I have my ear to the ground and my sense of it is that it's an organizing issue, not a statement about the dedication of Montrealers to hockey,

Not buying your 3rd point at all. People need a villain? Like, Ivan Drago? If they do not know that the US, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, and Slovakia are in, then they are not even casual hockey fans. I can understand someone not knowing Latvia, Denmark, or Switzerland. "Target audience hasn't been provided with inspiratin to invest emotionally in the event". Yeah, OK. It is a hockey tournament, a tournament every hockey fan is aware of, it is not a mini-series about the American Revolution.

Do agree about waiting to the semis for better value. With 8 of 10 teams moving on, these premilinary games are pretty much meaningless. Russia lost to the US and Canada, but will still be in the quarters. US-Canada Saturday Night is pretty much meaningless as I brought up in the other thread.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Not buying your 3rd point at all. People need a villain? Like, Ivan Drago? If they do not know that the US, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, and Slovakia are in, then they are not even casual hockey fans. I can understand someone not knowing Latvia, Denmark, or Switzerland. "Target audience hasn't been provided with inspiratin to invest emotionally in the event". Yeah, OK. It is a hockey tournament, a tournament every hockey fan is aware of, it is not a mini-series about the American Revolution.

Do agree about waiting to the semis for better value. With 8 of 10 teams moving on, these premilinary games are pretty much meaningless. Russia lost to the US and Canada, but will still be in the quarters. US-Canada Saturday Night is pretty much meaningless as I brought up in the other thread.

Your point about the round robin being more meaningful is without debate. I still tend to agree with others that say this total attendance issue is more of a marketing/over saturation issue. Can/US will be well attended regardless of the format, no more people were going to be showing up for Russia/Latvia if there were 3 or 4 teams advancing.

 

[jwise514]

Not buying your 3rd point at all. People need a villain? Like, Ivan Drago? If they do not know that the US, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, and Slovakia are in, then they are not even casual hockey fans. I can understand someone not knowing Latvia, Denmark, or Switzerland. "Target audience hasn't been provided with inspiratin to invest emotionally in the event". Yeah, OK. It is a hockey tournament, a tournament every hockey fan is aware of, it is not a mini-series about the American Revolution.

Do agree about waiting to the semis for better value. With 8 of 10 teams moving on, these premilinary games are pretty much meaningless. Russia lost to the US and Canada, but will still be in the quarters. US-Canada Saturday Night is pretty much meaningless as I brought up in the other thread.

YOU yourself don't need a story, you're posting on a hockey forum website. You, and everyone on here, is enthusiastic enough about the sport to want to go to see these players. Put yourself in the position of a casual hockey fan and ask yourself this question: what is my incentive to go to see Latvia vs Slovakia (as an example) if I've never heard of the players, i know that it's unlikely anyone on the ice will be a meaningful player in the NHL (the only league this fan follows on a regular basis) and it is going to cost me $50 per ticket to get in the building?

Now, take that same fan and imagine what their interest level could be is there was a real effort to explain the context of Latvia vs Slovakia. For example, the organizing committee tells the story of the connection between Latvia and Ted Nolan + Bob Hartley. Or that Petr Bondra's son is playing for Latvia. Or that Montreal favourite Jaro Halak holds the tournament record for shutouts and there's a possibility you could see the next great diamond in the rough. None of these narratives have been told. It's just "hey here's some pretty high quality hockey between two countries you have no attachment to, come pay through your teeth to watch them play round robin!"