Playoff analysis and thoughts moving forward (mod)

[bluemandan]

It's easy to say in retrospect that we should have gone all out for Seguin. But at the time, there were discipline and attitude questions. That is why Boston was dumping him. Nobody wanted to give away their best assets to bring in a guy who might be more of an issue than a benefit. It's why a deal with Eriksson as the main piece worked. Dallas didn't offer Benn. Eriksson is no slouch, but it was underpayment for Seguin's upside.

We can complain all we want now about how we should have held on to Bishop or gotten in on Seguin. The question is, how many people felt that way when those deals happened? This is a looking forward thread, not a look back and complain about all the moves we didn't make that were mistakes in retrospect one. What are the moves available now that we will look back and complain about if we pass on?

Those are great questions.

At the time, the choice came down to Bishop, who only looked great in his final year, or the Jennings Trophy winning tandem we already had. The fact that Armstrong got a 2nd for him considering his unproven track record and his contract status at the time was a decent return.

As far as Seguin, I remember thinking that Dallas gave up a lot, and was taking a big risk. I didn't feel the Blues could afford such a roster shake-up.

 

[bluemandan]

May I present, my San Louis Blue Sharks:

Pavelski/Couture/Tarasenko
Steen/Backes/Burns
Schwartz/Oshie/Hertl
Jaskin/Lapierre/Reaves

Vlasic/Peitrangelo
Bouwmeester/Shattenkirk
Stuart/Braun
Cole

Niemi
Allen

~$70.5 million cap hit. Probably better ways to build it, but that was my quick and dirty first try.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

The problem with the Seguin trade was that they sent anther pretty decent player in return. Which unless its Shatty, the Blues won't do. I think the Blues will end up doing something along the Bobby Ryan trade, an trade Berglund+Schmaltz+1st. That won't get a star in return but someone decent.

 

[execwrite]

This is looking backward instead of forward and totally useless except to vent.

I'd rather have ...

* Erik Johnson than Kevin Shattenkirk (good in the regular season, too soft for playoffs)

* Joel Quenville than Ken Hitchcock (but it's close)

* Lars Eller than what we got from Halak

* David Perron than Magnus Paajarvi

* Jonathan Toews than Erik Johnson (an all-time fatal draft mistake)

 

[Multimoodia]

* Erik Johnson than Kevin Shattenkirk (good in the regular season, too soft for playoffs)

Eh, EJ was not improving at all. Davis Payne's system was based upon the rush. Getting Stewart and Shattenkirk for him and McClement actually made sense. Now if Army knew that Payne was a dead duck the next season then that was a dumb move, if not it meshed with the style Davis was employing.

* Joel Quenville than Ken Hitchcock (but it's close)

Can't have this one. Q was fired by the previous administration and would not have hung around for the rebuild regardless

Lars Eller than what we got from Halak

Yeah, I can appreciate Army attempting to upgrade the goaltending but in hindsight that wasn't the greatest move.
Although to be honest I would rather have Logan Couture than Halak/Eller and D'Agostini. But that one is on Army and Jarmo both.

* David Perron than Magnus Paajarvi

I am still unable to discuss this without becoming aggravated, so I will merely note I agree with you whole-heartedly.

Jonathan Toews than Erik Johnson (an all-time fatal draft mistake)

I really didn't have an issue with Johnson being drafted at the time and in hindsight I still really don't. He was the consensus best player, the first player drafted for the rebuild so they had some time to wait for him to mature, etc. etc.
Plus I suspect had Toews been drafted by the Blues he would never have become the player he is today. The Blues were still way too early in their rebuild for him to become as effective as he has been for the Hawks.

The obvious conclusion one cannot help but draw is that the Blues are most fortunate they never drafted a good center lest they have some sort of depth at the position.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Eh, EJ was not improving at all. Davis Payne's system was based upon the rush. Getting Stewart and Shattenkirk for him and McClement actually made sense. Now if Army knew that Payne was a dead duck the next season then that was a dumb move, if not it meshed with the style Davis was employing.


Can't have this one. Q was fired by the previous administration and would not have hung around for the rebuild regardless


Yeah, I can appreciate Army attempting to upgrade the goaltending but in hindsight that wasn't the greatest move.
Although to be honest I would rather have Logan Couture than Halak/Eller and D'Agostini. But that one is on Army and Jarmo both.



I am still unable to discuss this without becoming aggravated, so I will merely note I agree with you whole-heartedly.



I really didn't have an issue with Johnson being drafted at the time and in hindsight I still really don't. He was the consensus best player, the first player drafted for the rebuild so they had some time to wait for him to mature, etc. etc.
Plus I suspect had Toews been drafted by the Blues he would never have become the player he is today. The Blues were still way too early in their rebuild for him to become as effective as he has been for the Hawks.

The obvious conclusion one cannot help but draw is that the Blues are most fortunate they never drafted a good center lest they have some sort of depth at the position.

Lars Eller did get the Blues half of a Jennings a couple seasons ago. Halak has become a ragdoll scapegoat here, but that's still a pretty decent trade. Eller would probably obviate Sobotka on this team, and I'd prefer Sobie.

 

[Multimoodia]

Lars Eller did get the Blues half of a Jennings a couple seasons ago. Halak has become a ragdoll scapegoat here, but that's still a pretty decent trade. Eller would probably obviate Sobotka on this team, and I'd prefer Sobie.

I'm not saying it was a bad trade, just not the clear-cut victory it could have been.
My concern at the time was with Halak's play over extended games, something that haunted him until the Blues traded him.

But as I said, I don't find fault in a GM trying to fix goalie problems.

I'm still irritated the Blues traded down, electing to skip on drafting Couture. I didn't like it at the time and like it less now.

 

[RR10*]

Plus I suspect had Toews been drafted by the Blues he would never have become the player he is today. The Blues were still way too early in their rebuild for him to become as effective as he has been for the Hawks.

I think Toews would be effective on any team. He is just too talented to not be. Blackhawks were as bad as the Blues back then so you cant really bring that up. **** man.

 

[timtindall]

if steen scores an overtime goal in the first game of the playoffs next year. there is no way jackman can play in game two.

 

[Multimoodia]

I think Toews would be effective on any team. He is just too talented to not be. Blackhawks were as bad as the Blues back then so you cant really bring that up. **** man.

After drafting Kane, the Hawks were a whole lot closer than the Blues were. Then signing Campbell, etc. etc.

Hawks were only a couple of pieces away, Blues were (and some might say still are...) more than that away.

 

[simon IC]

This is looking backward instead of forward and totally useless except to vent.

I'd rather have ...

* Erik Johnson than Kevin Shattenkirk (good in the regular season, too soft for playoffs)* Joel Quenville than Ken Hitchcock (but it's close)

* Lars Eller than what we got from Halak

* David Perron than Magnus Paajarvi

* Jonathan Toews than Erik Johnson (an all-time fatal draft mistake)

I made myself very unpopular with my vehement opposition to "the trade", probably getting myself "ignored" by a lot of posters, ...and that's ok. I'll say it again...the worst thing that happened in EJ's career was to be picked #1 overall. Even though every GM in the NHL would have made the same decision to draft him first overall, as we did, hindsight has demonstrated that scouting projections were innacurate and overrated. EJ is a good defenseman, and will improve, (if he stays healthy) but he will never be an elite defenseman. The pressure of being a 1st pick overall put unrealistic expectations on him by the team, and more importantly, on EJ himself. Then he hurt his knee... having said all this, I'd much rather have EJ as my 2nd pairing RD behind Petro, because he is already a much more 2 dimensional defenseman than Shattenkirk and that will be increasingly more evident with time.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

After drafting Kane, the Hawks were a whole lot closer than the Blues were. Then signing Campbell, etc. etc.

Hawks were only a couple of pieces away, Blues were (and some might say still are...) more than that away.

Blackhawks started hitting on high draft picks starting in 2002 with Keith, and in 2003 with Seabrook and Crawford, trading for Sharp, etc... then drafted well with elite prospects Towes and Kane, who were those 2 missing pieces and whala! Cup Champs by 2010 and again in 2013.

The Blues still need a #1 Center and I also say a Physical top 4 Defenseman to put us over the top once and for all...

 

[Megalodan]

Blackhawks started hitting on high draft picks starting in 2002 with Keith, and in 2003 with Seabrook and Crawford, trading for Sharp, etc... then drafted well with elite prospects Towes and Kane, who were those 2 missing pieces and whala! Cup Champs by 2010 and again in 2013.

for future reference, it's voilà. other than that, totally agree.

in regards to this year's performance, though.. watching the Wild play against the Blackhawks, I feel like the Blues did a lot better than they are given credit for.

 

[Note Worthy]

There's no doubt in my mind that Chicago will steamroll Minnesota.

We were a much tougher opponent. The Hawks got pretty lucky.

 

[Robb_K]

May I present, my San Louis Blue Sharks:

Pavelski/Couture/Tarasenko
Steen/Backes/Burns
Schwartz/Oshie/Hertl
Jaskin/Lapierre/Reaves

Vlasic/Peitrangelo
Bouwmeester/Shattenkirk
Stuart/Braun
Cole

Niemi
Allen

~$70.5 million cap hit. Probably better ways to build it, but that was my quick and dirty first try.

That should be: Los San Luís Tiburones Azules!

 

[Tim UK]

Much has already been said about the team offensively but thought I'd take a look at the games against the top 5 teams in the West (Anaheim, San Jose, LA, Chicago and Colorado) this season from a defensive point of view.

Anaheim - L 5-2; L 3-2; L 1-0
9 goals conceded in 3 games - GA/G = 3.00

San Jose - L 6-2; L 6-3; L 4-2
16 goals conceded in 3 games - GA/G = 5.33

LA - L 3-2; W 5-0; L 4-1
7 goals conceded in 3 games - GA/G = 2.33

Chicago - W 3-2; W 3-2 (so); W 6-5 (so); L 4-0; L 4-2
17 goals conceded in 5 games - GA/G = 3.40

Colorado - W 7-3; W 4-1; W 2-1; L 4-0
9 goals conceded in 4 games - GA/G = 2.25

Total - 58 goals conceded in 18 games - GA/G = 3.22
For comparison Blues total for season was 2.29 GA/G (3rd in league), 3.22 would be 29th in league with only Edmonton (3.26 GA/G) with a worse mark.

In half of the 18 games the Blues conceded 4 or more goals (4 goals 5 times, 5 goals twice and 6 goals twice) and in two thirds of the 18 games 3 or more.

In the playoffs against Chicago the Blues conceded 20 goals in 6 games for a GA/G of 3.33. Only Columbus, San Jose and Tampa Bay had a higher GA/G in the first round.

Found those numbers slightly concerning for a team whose supposed strength is defensively, tough to win games having to score 4 or 5 goals.

 

[Gilligans Island]

May I present, my San Louis Blue Sharks:

Pavelski/Couture/Tarasenko
Steen/Backes/Burns
Schwartz/Oshie/Hertl
Jaskin/Lapierre/Reaves

Vlasic/Peitrangelo
Bouwmeester/Shattenkirk
Stuart/Braun
Cole

Niemi
Allen

~$70.5 million cap hit. Probably better ways to build it, but that was my quick and dirty first try.

Are we trying to be good or suck or best chance of choking?

Torres should be in for Jaskin. I think opponents would quit for fear of getting head hunted.

Demers in for Stuart.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

This is looking backward instead of forward and totally useless except to vent.

I'd rather have ...

* Erik Johnson than Kevin Shattenkirk (good in the regular season, too soft for playoffs)

* Joel Quenville than Ken Hitchcock (but it's close)

* Lars Eller than what we got from Halak

* David Perron than Magnus Paajarvi

* Jonathan Toews than Erik Johnson (an all-time fatal draft mistake)

I honestly disagree with every comment you made. No hard feelings, just feel like we were better off. Johnson over Shatty is not even close, Shatty is clearly above EJ. As someone before me said, Quennville wouldn't have even lasted this long had he not been fired, every coach gets the door at some point.

You can't argue that the Eller trade was good for a couple years. Eller never became a 'star' and Halak brought home a couple solid playoff seasons and a Jennings. If he was supported by more scoring and was more consistent, he would still be here. Not to mention the fact that at the time of this trade the Blues pretty much had nobody else available for the position. Barely had any cap.

The Perron trade is something I'll continue to defend, simply because it not only freed more cap to sign Petro, but it gave us a VERY high 2nd, while also getting rid of what some called a locker room disease in Perron.

Also, I would have easily picked Kessel over Toews at the time of the draft. Kessel is the better player IMO.

 

[byrath]

I honestly disagree with every comment you made. No hard feelings, just feel like we were better off. Johnson over Shatty is not even close, Shatty is clearly above EJ. As someone before me said, Quennville wouldn't have even lasted this long had he not been fired, every coach gets the door at some point.

You can't argue that the Eller trade was good for a couple years. Eller never became a 'star' and Halak brought home a couple solid playoff seasons and a Jennings. If he was supported by more scoring and was more consistent, he would still be here. Not to mention the fact that at the time of this trade the Blues pretty much had nobody else available for the position. Barely had any cap.

The Perron trade is something I'll continue to defend, simply because it not only freed more cap to sign Petro, but it gave us a VERY high 2nd, while also getting rid of what some called a locker room disease in Perron.

Also, I would have easily picked Kessel over Toews at the time of the draft. Kessel is the better player IMO.

Some fair points but the bolded parts there seem fundamentally wrong to me.

 

[byrath]

I've been wondering for a while, it seems to me that Schwartz has a skillset that could make him a good center. Has he ever played there before? Could that 1st/2nd line be XXXX-Schwartz-Tarasenko instead of Schwartz-XXXX-Tarasenko?

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

Fair, I mean EJ is slightly below Shatty, I may have overreacted. Kessel is a better fit for this team IMO.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Toews is pretty soundly better in terms of all around game, and his fit over Kessel.

 

[Dbrownss]

I've been wondering for a while, it seems to me that Schwartz has a skillset that could make him a good center. Has he ever played there before? Could that 1st/2nd line be XXXX-Schwartz-Tarasenko instead of Schwartz-XXXX-Tarasenko?

It's been discussed before. He's tenacity is best appreciated in the corners on the forcheck...Also from what I've gathered, he sucks at faceoffs

 

[Dbrownss]

There's no doubt in my mind that Chicago will steamroll Minnesota.

We were a much tougher opponent. The Hawks got pretty lucky.

Hawks are having a field day with a healthy Minnesota team while had issues with a battered blues. I still maintain if we entered the playoffs healthy then the blues could have took the series in 5. Sad part is, if this team could actually finish it's chances, they'd still be playing

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I think Schwartz is good enough to play center, but I absolutely do not want him there. If it gets to the point that we're trying him out at center on anything other than the power play, it means once again Armstrong has failed to address the biggest weakness on this team.