Players that are not in the HHOF that should be inducted?

[Jets4Life]

I was curious as to who people on the forum think that were passed over for the HHOF, that should ahve been inducted. For every Diff Duff player that should not be in the Hall, there could easily be a couple of players who should be in, that were never inducted.

The one player I noticed that is not in the HOF is Alexander Mogilny. Mogilny started his career in Russia, before defecting to the NHL in 1989. He played until 2006. During that time, He one a Stanley Cup, World Championship, and an Olympic Gold Medal. He also led the league in goals at 76 (tied with Selanne). He was also the first Russian to be an NHL captain. Played in numerous All-Star games, and finished his career with over 1,000 points. Mogilny also won a Lady Byng Trophy.

There is a slew of other examples where literally all that separates a player from the HOF is a coin toss. What retired player do you think has been overlooked by the Hall of Fame?

Click to read more...

 

[DitchMarner]

The case against Mogilny is that he really only put together four or five strong seasons due to injuries and inconsistency.

However, at this point they may as well induct him (it's already watered down enough and they'll probably let Marleau in one day). His best two seasons are better than the best two seasons of quite a few HHOF players and he does have pretty good compiled stats (which the HHOF seems to love) and career averages. And yes, he does have historical significance for being one of the first Russians to defect and make it big in the NHL and he was an entertaining player with HOF level skill.


But if he gets in, Roenick and Fleury really should as well. Obviously there are political factors that work against those two.

 

[Jets4Life]

Roenick makes sense. He never had the talent of Mogilny, but he was a star player, and he reched the 1,000 point/500 goal club.

Fleury would probably be in the HHOF if it was not for his personal demons. Fleury also burned bridges with the Flames organisation just 2 months after he came out of retirement, played in the pre-season, and got to retire as a Flame, and was a lock to have his jersey risen to the rafters eventually, but his fallout with the organisation, along with his bizarre political views mean that he will never get in.

 

[Jets4Life]

Sergei Gonchar

-played in 1,301 NHL games
-six time all star
-Stanley Cup Champion
-two Olympic medals
-top 10 in all-time Defenseman scoring.

 

[seventieslord]

It's about time we cover this topic!

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

It's about time we cover this topic!

Should have been the next History of Hockey project- in accordance with my earlier statement...

I'd be most interested in a Hall of Fame project... and would be highly motivated if it were to take the shape of something like---

Top (n) [n being 20, or two-dozen, or 25] Hall of Fame eligible individuals not in the Hockey Hall of Fame, but most worthy of induction.

To begin with, there are at least a dozen- but probably more like 15+ non-inducted male players that are superior to the (")average(") male Hall-of-Fame player-- and would raise the level of the Hall of Fame immediately upon their induction. However, the issue doesn't end there.

Enough female players have been inducted into the Hall of Fame for us to work out a rough current baseline for women competitors. Are there any women who are above that line, or at least close enough to merit immediate consideration? That could be a beneficial conversation.

Then, there's the matter of European coach/builder types like Chernyshev and Kostka/Pitner. Worth considering, no? Finally, there are the players who might not appear on many top 200 lists- yet still merit discussion as potentially deserving pioneers, like Zábrodský and Bobrov.

 

[pnep]

Sergei Gonchar


-six time all star

2 time allstar

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Roenick makes sense. He never had the talent of Mogilny, but he was a star player, and he reched the 1,000 point/500 goal club.

Fleury would probably be in the HHOF if it was not for his personal demons. Fleury also burned bridges with the Flames organisation just 2 months after he came out of retirement, played in the pre-season, and got to retire as a Flame, and was a lock to have his jersey risen to the rafters eventually, but his fallout with the organisation, along with his bizarre political views mean that he will never get in.

If Roenick had retired at the lockout he'd be in already IMO. Those last 4 years of horrible from him post lockout is really damaging to his case. Roenick after 2004 was at 475-645-1120 (0.996 PPG) The 4 seasons of being garbage on the ice really soured the view on him. The voters and fans have that as the lasting image instead of his accomplishments and dropped his career PPG down to 0.89

9-13-22, -5 in 58
11-17-28, -18 in 70
14-19-33, -8 in 69
4-9-13, -1 in 42

edit: and my answer every time this comes up, Rick Middleton

 

[seventieslord]

Should have been the next History of Hockey project- in accordance with my earlier statement...

Let me expand on my statement and yours.

First of all, it was a joke, simply making light of the fact that a topic was started about "players that are not in the HHOF that should be inducted" as though it was a fresh new topic that has never been discussed before, when it is in fact perhaps the most beaten-to-death topic in existence, aside from perhaps Sid/Ovi, and the opposite topic, "players who are in the HHOF who shouldn't be"

As far as your idea for a project goes: Although I couldn't be less enthusiastic about the apparent prevailing idea at this time, "HOH HOF", the main reason for that is because it will end up comprising, for the most part, simple rubber stamp "re-inductions" of hundreds of players who are already in the HHOF who deserve to be there. Your idea limits the conversation to those who are not in already, removing existing inductions from the conversation outright. That, I actually like!

I have fun at weddings for the most part. I've been to a couple of "vow renewal ceremonies" and wanted to jump off a cliff.

 

[Voight]

Its criminal that a guy like Carbonneau is in yet Jere Lehtinen hasn't been inducted.

I'll add Rick Martin. Just as good if not better than Shutt & Barber.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Let me expand on my statement and yours.

First of all, it was a joke, simply making light of the fact that a topic was started about "players that are not in the HHOF that should be inducted" as though it was a fresh new topic that has never been discussed before, when it is in fact perhaps the most beaten-to-death topic in existence, aside from perhaps Sid/Ovi, and the opposite topic, "players who are in the HHOF who shouldn't be"

All right- point taken- although (in my defense) whenever this topic comes up, it kind of careens from one side of the road to the other, with no attempt to collate or systematize.

As far as your idea for a project goes: Although I couldn't be less enthusiastic about the apparent prevailing idea at this time, "HOH HOF", the main reason for that is because it will end up comprising, for the most part, simple rubber stamp "re-inductions" of hundreds of players who are already in the HHOF who deserve to be there. Your idea limits the conversation to those who are not in already, removing existing inductions from the conversation outright. That, I actually like!

I have fun at weddings for the most part. I've been to a couple of "vow renewal ceremonies" and wanted to jump off a cliff.

Thanks. [I think?] Like you, I'll be taking a pass on the current project. I suppose I'll tune in from time-to-time to see who gets "de-frocked." That said, advancing years have given me less and less appetite for playing Grand Inquisitor on that matter. Much rather advocate for those who are well-past-due for honors, but are still waiting.

I'm not a Professional Writer- I just play one on a Message Board. However (in common with many Professional Writers), I have a weakness for quoting myself- so here's another one-- from 10 months ago...

My not-entirely merit-based wish-list re: Hall of Fame inductions for future years:


1) Immediately: Starshinov (age 82) & Holecek (turns 79 next month).
2) Next: Pospisil (turns 79 in 2 months) and Mikhailov (turned 78 2 months ago).
3) After that, Maltsev (turns 74 in 2 months) & Martinec (turned 73 2 months ago).

Let's get some of these greats into the Hall, before they die on us. Then, we can avoid graceless ex lax smooth moves like not even considering Suchy- even after his death in early 2021- and instead hacking up the likes of Kevin Lowe.

Then, after we outrace grim death on that front, we can turn our attention to posthumous selections like Suchy, Firsov, Krutov, Petrov...

 

[MarotteMarauder]

I'll add Rene Robert. Just as good if not better than Shutt & Barber.

Before Rick Martin? Nope.

 

[Staniowski]

he does have historical significance for being one of the first Russians to defect

Mogilny's defection has very little historical significance. He was the first Russian star to defect, but also one of the last Eastern Europeans to defect. The vast majority of Russians of Mogilny's generation just walked out the front door, and Mogilny could have too if he simply waited a bit longer.

Mogilny is a certainty to be inducted into the HHOF, though.

 

[Sentinel]

Firsov, Mihailov, Petrov, Krutov, Holecek

 

[Staniowski]

it's already watered down enough

If you think it's watered down, it's always been that way. The vast majority of the weakest players in the Hall are from the early eras. The 3 decades (of birth years) that have produced the most HHOFers in the Player Category are the 1880s, 1890s, and 1960s. And the last time I checked the 1900s were #4.

It's actually a lot more difficult for more recent players to get inducted (compared to previous eras), even if it sometimes doesn't seem that way. There are just a higher number of good players in more recent times.

 

[Voight]

Before Rick Martin? Nope.

I actually meant to type Rick Martin (Mondays lol)

 

[GRob83]

Peter Bondra needs to be inducted. During the 10 year dead puck era (93/94 - 03/04) only Jagr had more goals than Bondra and he led the league in goals twice and had the most shorthanded goals during this span as well. He is 13th All-Time in era adjusted goals per game (tied with Selanne and Beliveau). He won a World Championship and is one of the best Slovakian players of all time. He wasn't drafted to the NHL until he was 22 and would likely have over 600 goals if it hadn't been for seasons lost entirely or shortened due to lock-outs.

 

[MXD]

Other than some of the players mentionned by @Sentinel (if not all of them, Krutov and Petrov being a bit on-the-line for that distinction, even if they're absolutely worthy candidates), absolutely none of the players named in this thread really HAVE to be in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Peter Bondra needs to be inducted. During the 10 year dead puck era (93/94 - 03/04) only Jagr had more goals than Bondra and he led the league in goals twice and had the most shorthanded goals during this span as well. He is 13th All-Time in era adjusted goals per game (tied with Selanne and Beliveau). He won a World Championship and is one of the best Slovakian players of all time. He wasn't drafted to the NHL until he was 22 and would likely have over 600 goals if it hadn't been for seasons lost entirely or shortened due to lock-outs.

He has the most Cy Young Awards of anyone not yet inducted to Cooperstown (except a steroids asterisk), so that does make his case compelling

 

[Crosby2010]

I think Mogilny was too inconsistent. Amazing talent when he wanted to be though and I agree with what someone else said that him at his best was better than plenty in the HHOF at their best. But did he do enough in his career? He wasn't a strong playoff performer and I think sometimes the fact that Mogilny could have been so much better is held against him.

As for goalies I don't think there is anyone that has to be in now. Barrasso was a guy I liked, but he's in, and they added Vernon, who I wasn't a big fan of getting in, so I don't think there is anyone on the outside of the goalie category that should be in. Just a lot of ones who are close.

Not sure about defensemen either, maybe just J-C Tremblay. He ought to be in by now with the newfound standards for defensemen, which dropped by the way.

Forwards have the most of who should be in. Ones that are already mentioned are Fleury and Middleton. There are lots of guys who the HHOF makes wait if only out of spite. They did this to Gilmour, they did this to Glenn Anderson. If they don't like you, then you can have a bit of a wait if you are close enough to being on the other side of the fence. But Barrasso getting in would be a good sign for anyone because he was hated by the media. So maybe there is hope. Also, Boris Mikhailov is the odd man out among his countrymen of that era. I think he needs to be in.

The coaches/builders that did enough but have the wrong people gnashing their teeth would be Cherry, Keenan and Babcock. All three did enough to get in, but they also have some powerful enemies.

 

[Oneiro]

Elias was a flat out better and more consistent and safely productive player than a lot of guys who are in. Too much emphasis on peaks and accumulation vs. consistency and defensive play.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Speaking of low standards for the HoF, how would everyone feel if a Pat Tillman like hockey player got in the HoF or his jersey retired? Maybe the stats and skill wouldn’t be there but such a player could be seen as a shining person in the hockey community

 

[Neutrinos]

IMO, Curtis Joseph tops the list of deserving Hall of Famers who aren't currently enshrined...

Belfour was a first ballot inductee into the Hall of Fame, while Joseph's still waiting for the call after more than a decade of eligibility


Belfour vs Joseph


Peak Season:

Belfour's '91 Vezina season when he was also a Hart finalist, leading the league in the following stats:
.910 SV%, 44.6 GSAA, 79 GA%, 14.0 GPS

Joseph's '93 season when he lead the league in the following stats:
.911 SV%, 57.4 GSAA, 77 GA%, 16.2 GPS

A Vezina finalist for the first time in '93, Joseph had just posted the 5th best single season GSAA in NHL history - a mark which stands today as the highest total since '76 - and then promptly finished a distant 3rd in voting behind the 2 goalies with the most wins that season, Belfour and Barrasso. Joseph received 0 Hart votes.

Joseph then posts what seems like typos - an 18.7 GSAA and a miniscule GA% of just 59 over 11 playoff games
Roy's legendary Cup run during those same playoffs saw him post a 21.4 GSAA and a GA% of 68 in his 20 playoff games

So, during his peak, CuJo was the best goaltender in the world



5 Year Peak '91 - '95:

Belfour = 309 games, .905 SV%, 114.3 GSAA, 87 GA%

Joseph = 280 games, .908 SV%, 149.3 GSAA, 84 GA%

Having come out of his 5 year peak with 2 Vezinas, a pair of 1st Team All-Star selections, and a 2nd Team All-Star selection, Belfour has all the hardware he'll need for induction

Joseph, who appears to have out-played Belfour during their respective peaks , emerges from this 5 year stretch with a resume that remains largely unchanged from when he entered the league , save for the addition of "1x Vezina finalist". and "1994 Western Conference All-Star"



10 Year Prime '91 - '00:

Belfour = 589 games, .908 SV%, 145.7 GSAA, 90 GA%

Joseph = 610 games, .909 SV%, 165.3 GSAA, 91 GA%

Belfour has a memorable run to close out the decade, winning the first of back-to-back trips to the Finals with a team that features 6 future Hall of Famers

Joseph spends the latter half of his prime on talent-starved rosters with little chance of experiencing any meaningful team success



From their first year in the NHL through the end of their age 38 season:

Belfour
856 games, .908 SV%, 193.2 GSAA, 91 GA%

Joseph
858 games, .907 SV%, 185.6 GSAA, 93 GA%

 

[VanIslander]

There's no universe where Joseph & Elias deserve induction over Belfour & Tikkanen.

This is about NOT FORGETTING what greatness they have done! It's about going to the Hall in 2050, pointing at a display and saying: "that was a great player!"

Stat mongers pound sand. Hee hum go home.

 

[seventieslord]

I like Tikkanen as much as the next guy, but over Elias? How does someone get there?