Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Hungry for Change

[WayneSid9987]

I knew JR was schitzo but i didn't believe he'd be THIS bad. In a calendar year the JJ contract and "getting his man" in Gudbranson.
Yikes.

 

[ColePens]

I knew JR was schitzo but i didn't believe he'd be THIS bad. In a calendar year the JJ contract and "getting his man" in Gudbranson.
Yikes.

But it was so damn obvious. These aren't acceptable mistakes. And then giving good players away to afford these easy to avoid mistakes is downright sickening. Reaves, JJ, Hunwick, etc. It's so damn obvious. And I'm not ignoring his good moves. I get it. But these mistakes after winning two cups boggles my mind and he 100% shortened a wide open and perfect situation. Now we have 7.5m sitting in the presser, or SHOULD be sitting in the presser. Insane. Just insane.

Get swept by the Isles and no assistant coaches fired? Same issues now? Shocking. That was obvious. It's definitely frustrating.

 

[K Fleur]

Half the spring and a whole summer to make changes after a sweep and they started the new season with the exact same defense

I almost appreciate that everytime Sheary plays us he reminds JR how bad he f***ed up by having to move him.

 

[ColePens]

Half the spring and a whole summer to make changes after a sweep and they started the new season with the exact same defense

I almost appreciate that everytime Sheary plays us he reminds JR how bad he ****ed up by having to move him.

I think we all knew one of Sheary/Rust would EVENTUALLY need moved. I made the call and it was in the vast minority that Sheary's loss will be missed albeit I understand he would have eventually been gone. But then they ended up signing him to a very affordable rate and almost no term, it was good. I thought it was worth keeping.

But to move to this idea where we need size and in comes Reaves, JJ, Guds, Oleksiak, and ZAR. I just don't get it. It wasn't what won us a Cup. It wasn't even close. I do not get it. Now we are paying for it and we have to pay even more to make it better. It's a joke. An absolute joke.

And the saddest part of them all - go back to the JJ signing thread or the Reaves trade. It was 99.9% agreed upon on how it would go. That is near impossible HF standards for everyone to be that on the same page.

I'm not calling the end of the world. Look at 2014-15 Pens. Look at the Blues in December. Look at the Caps after falling short to the Pens in back to back years and losing their roster. The last FOUR Cup winners are defined examples of what can happen.

 

[Andy99]

I wanted Gusev

He looked good last night...goal and a shootout goal...we certainly could use him over the vanilla wings we seem to accumulate who aren’t either separating the opposition from the puck or who don’t have quick enough hands or minds to score goals...

 

[Riptide]

JJ will be moved when he can. Right now no one has a need, but injuries can change that. Sully knows he has to play the best D men and JJ will play himself out of the line up. Marino is here for a reason. RH shot and good skater is a need.

Letang Dumo
Schultz Petts
Gudbranson Riikola

Look no further than game 1. JJ was the 6th D in terms of TOI, playing 1:38 less than EG and 4:20 less than MP at ES, and only 14 minutes total.

 

[66-30-33]

AJ in for ZAR
JJ waived to WBS and replaced by Riikola
Gud HS and try Marino

It aint the best but it's a step in the right direction for now.

 

[Gurglesons]

Look no further than game 1. JJ was the 6th D in terms of TOI, playing 1:38 less than EG and 4:20 less than MP at ES, and only 14 minutes total.

Pretty obvious how Sullivan feels about JJ when this roster has been healthy.

 

[Riptide]

Pretty obvious how Sullivan feels about JJ when this roster has been healthy.

Part of that to be fair is the fact that we were behind for half the game looking for offense. However I think the point still stands that even if we weren't, that JJ would have been the 6th D in terms of TOI. The other good thing is that him playing those types of minutes is something that's easily replaceable by damn near anyone. Even his SH time could easily be picked up by Pettersson, Dumoulin and Gudbranson (0:23, 1:09, 1:14), so that wouldn't even be something his replacement would 'have' to be able to do.

 

[Turin]

One of the Pens 9 defense will have to go to Edmonton or Winnipeg. Right?!

Winnipeg would make sense if they know for sure Buff is done. Otherwise they can’t afford them.

 

[Riptide]

Over how big of a sample size? Those of you who worship advanced stats assume something that happened in a smaller sample size will repeat itself, when it truth that doesn't always happen. We saw him faulter big time playing with those two in the last two playoffs. In truth, if Simon was traded/waived right now it wouldn't affect the team negatively one bit.

And I guess the more traditional stats aren't cool around here anymore, but a player that scores that little better be getting prime Joe Thornton amount of assists if they're playing on the top line.

He's either our 2nd or 3rd most creative offensive winger we have (depends on how Gally does in creating offense vs just finishing off Malkin's plays). We would absolutely miss him. The second he's gone, our entire hopes for L3 being decent rest completely on Kahun's shoulders. That's not a great place to be in.

I'd also point out that you're bitching about Simon's rookie season. There's few rookies in the league that can point to their ability to make players like Crosby and Malkin (along with everyone else they played with) better. That's not something you toss away just because you're unhappy with their production numbers.

 

[Peat]

I think we all knew one of Sheary/Rust would EVENTUALLY need moved. I made the call and it was in the vast minority that Sheary's loss will be missed albeit I understand he would have eventually been gone. But then they ended up signing him to a very affordable rate and almost no term, it was good. I thought it was worth keeping.

The Sheary thing for me was as much about roster space as anything else apart; we had a bunch of cheap promising wingers who needed roster spots, and keeping Sheary complicated that. I miss him but it was the right call.

Just pretty much everything else that Rutherford did around then was the wrong call.

Since getting McCann and Bjugstad I feel like he's been at least fairly solid, sane and directed the right way in his calls... but he's left himself some messes. And he clearly hasn't learned all the lessons we want. We're just hoping his gamblers' nose is right this time.

I might regret leaving the "Fire Rutherford" bandwagon for a few months yet.

 

[ColePens]

The Sheary thing for me was as much about roster space as anything else apart; we had a bunch of cheap promising wingers who needed roster spots, and keeping Sheary complicated that. I miss him but it was the right call.

Just pretty much everything else that Rutherford did around then was the wrong call.

Since getting McCann and Bjugstad I feel like he's been at least fairly solid, sane and directed the right way in his calls... but he's left himself some messes. And he clearly hasn't learned all the lessons we want. We're just hoping his gamblers' nose is right this time.

I might regret leaving the "Fire Rutherford" bandwagon for a few months yet.

I'm with ya. However I think it's Sully first to go. When you see the SAME thing on the ice that you did last year even with a way different roster... that's damning.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

If you were in JR’s shoes, what would you have done during the summer of 2017?
Or should that be a separate thread?
Just finished watching Game 6 in Nashville and it got me thinking.

 

[Peat]

I'm with ya. However I think it's Sully first to go. When you see the SAME thing on the ice that you did last year even with a way different roster... that's damning.

If that's not just the annual start of season crapfest and he just can't motivate them enough to play the hockey he wants to play, then yeah. Done. But I'll wait a few more games so to see how this develops. And I personally thought Sid looked one of the most sluggish and that he'll probably amp it up.

But if you get a new coach, is Rutherford going to get him the things he needs? Maybe. I hate to bet on him and I hate to bet against him. I'll keep betting on Sully if the core's willing to play their hearts out for him but I've not a clue on Rutherford right now.

If you were in JR’s shoes, what would you have done during the summer of 2017?
Or should that be a separate thread?
Just finished watching Game 6 in Nashville and it got me thinking.

Mostly the same off the top of my head. Probably not pay that for Reaves, probably look for a cheaper guy with some development potential to sign rather than Hunwick. Draft better.

It's Brassard to JJ where the damage is really done.

 

[Pens x]

If you were in JR’s shoes, what would you have done during the summer of 2017?
Or should that be a separate thread?
Just finished watching Game 6 in Nashville and it got me thinking.

You’d have to go back to the free agent agents available in July 2017, but there was no reason to sign Hunwick to that deal. As a result, we lost Sheary for NOTHING in the process, and every decision after was awful.

Rutherford also foolishly waited around for 2 months for Cullen to decide where he was going to play, and as a result, we started the season with one of the worst bottom six lineups in the league. Gregg McKegg Riley Sheahan, and Carter Rowney were our bottom centers.

 

[66-30-33]

Probably tried to trade for Petrovic if I was the GM. @Honour Over Glory

 

[Gurglesons]

If you were in JR’s shoes, what would you have done during the summer of 2017?
Or should that be a separate thread?
Just finished watching Game 6 in Nashville and it got me thinking.

Resign Bonino. Traded Sheary for a 3rd.

Used Sundqvist as our 4C.

Our roster heading into that season would’ve been.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Wilson - Malkin - Kessel
Hagelin - Bonino - Rust
X - Sundqvist - Rowney

Dumo - Letang
Cole - Schultz
Maatta - Ruh

People for some reason said we needed more D depth or something? We could have easily built up the LW depth or gotten a solid RD for the bottom pairing in the season rather than moving out all of our C depth for nothing and no reason.

Also, this isn’t hindsight and I got so much shit for saying this that summer.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

If you were in JR’s shoes, what would you have done during the summer of 2017?
Or should that be a separate thread?
Just finished watching Game 6 in Nashville and it got me thinking.

Sign Bones. Not hindsight either. I'm on record at the time saying that we should sign him, and if we find a better 3C or need to clear salary, then not only will he be tradable but we'll get an asset back instead of him walking for nothing.

If you look at the chain of events that this set off, and the assets spent chasing another C, I think we would have been much better off. And we could have instead focused on replacing Daley instead of a 3C.

Scott Wilson and a 3rd for Sheahan and a 5th.
Ian Cole, Gustavsson, Reaves, a 1st and a 3rd for Brassard and a 3rd.
Brass, Sheahan, a 2nd, and 2 4ths to Florida to finally get a passable C.

So for
Wilson, Cole, Reaves, Gustavsson, a 1st, 2nd, and two 4ths

We got
A good half+ of a season from Sheahan and the ghost of Brassard and both of them moping around the room, a 5th, and finally the Florida boys.

Imagine if we had just kept Bones and used all of those assets on improving the D. I did think Brass would be great here but yikes.

It's interesting to talk about but it's in the past and we can't go back so

 

[Gurglesons]

Sign Bones. Not hindsight either. I'm on record at the time saying that we should sign him, and if we find a better 3C or need to clear salary, then not only will he be tradable but we'll get an asset back instead of him walking for nothing.

If you look at the chain of events that this set off, and the assets spent chasing another C, I think we would have been much better off. And we could have instead focused on replacing Daley instead of a 3C.

Scott Wilson and a 3rd for Sheahan and a 5th.
Ian Cole, Gustavsson, Reaves, a 1st and a 3rd for Brassard and a 3rd.
Brass, Sheahan, a 2nd, and 2 4ths to Florida to finally get a passable C.

So for
Wilson, Cole, Reaves, Gustavsson, a 1st, 2nd, and two 4ths

We got
A good half+ of a season from Sheahan and the ghost of Brassard both moping around the room, a 5th, and finally the Florida boys.

Imagine if we had just kept Bones and used all of those assets on improving the D. I did think Brass would be great here but yikes.

It's interesting to talk about but it's in the past and we can't go back so

Something in that package would have landed a comparable to McCann. And Bjugstad basically is the upper limit of the Bonino contract with the same term.

So basically anyone saying we couldn’t have afforded Bonino at 4 mil is dumb because we basically have the same exact type of player at 3C on the same contract right now.

We basically moved a ton of assets out to get to a point at C we could have been with just signing Bonino.

 

[Peat]

Traded Sheary for a 3rd.
...
Also, this isn’t hindsight and I got so much **** for saying this that summer.

You were saying trade the guy who'd just finished 1st or 2nd (I forget exactly) in the NHL for ES p/60 for a 3rd all summer? I don't believe that. Rutherford would have been lynched. Maybe trade him for peak price, yeah, but a 3rd?


If we're gonna talk 20/20 hindsight moves that would have got Rutherford lynched at the time, I'd probably go with trade Kessel. Would have been crazy but knowing then what we know now, it would have been peak value for a guy who'd be part of a year long mini-drama that helped nothing. Would have also allowed us to freshen up the roster when it badly needed it.

 

[Gurglesons]

You were saying trade the guy who'd just finished 1st or 2nd (I forget exactly) in the NHL for ES p/60 for a 3rd all summer? I don't believe that. Rutherford would have been lynched. Maybe trade him for peak price, yeah, but a 3rd?


If we're gonna talk 20/20 hindsight moves that would have got Rutherford lynched at the time, I'd probably go with trade Kessel. Would have been crazy but knowing then what we know now, it would have been peak value for a guy who'd be part of a year long mini-drama that helped nothing. Would have also allowed us to freshen up the roster when it badly needed it.

Given the fact Sheary was a healthy scratch in the playoffs and we knew the Crosby, Malkin, Bonino center depth had resulted in two cups I’d take the risk. Especially given what Sprong was doing at that time (which was also my argument).

I agree though losing Kessel would have hurt less than Bonino.

 

[Peat]

Given the fact Sheary was a healthy scratch in the playoffs and we knew the Crosby, Malkin, Bonino center depth had resulted in two cups I’d take the risk. Especially given what Sprong was doing at that time (which was also my argument).

Trade Sheary, sure. Trade him for a 3rd - straight up no.

 

[Gurglesons]

Trade Sheary, sure. Trade him for a 3rd - straight up no.

I’m not sure he had much more value tbh.

 

[Peat]

I’m not sure he had much more value tbh.

When's the last time someone got traded for a 3rd after a 50 point season?