Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread|8 Days - TDL Being "Center" of Attention - PART II

[HandshakeLine]

The way he has been playing it might happen if he keeps it up the rest of the way. I would of laughed about this a month ago but if he still has a GAA under 2 and a save% near .930 that could very easily be their pick.

Yeah, who knows? There were stranger picks in the last expansion draft.

 

[66-30-33]

The Flyer Fans I've talked to say it's AV's fault over Hextalls. I guess they would know more

Not Hextalls fault Flyers have an idiot coach and they suck with him, he gave that team talent so it's up to the coach/players.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

DeSmith getting picked would kinda suck tbh

 

[Goalie_Bob]

DeSmith getting picked would kinda suck tbh

Totally disagree. A backup goalie can be found pretty easily. #3 center or potential #2 LW not so much.

 

[Pens x]

Not Hextalls fault Flyers have an idiot coach and they suck with him, he gave that team talent so it's up to the coach/players.

So, you think this team would be legit with a new coach???

 

[AuroraBorealis]

DeSmith getting picked would kinda suck tbh

~.920 goalie who would probably play 30+ games next year, making 1.25 mil and people wanna ship him out and bring in any random backup who could easily be more expensive and much worse.

kk

 

[HandshakeLine]

~.920 goalie who would probably play 30+ games next year, making 1.25 mil and people wanna ship him out and bring in any random backup who could easily be more expensive and much worse.

kk

Well, for one, goalies can play bad and DeSmith has had stretches of bad play. It's not like we're moving a prime Hašek here.

And two, moving DeSmith would keep the forwards and blueline intact. It's not like it's a win-win situation, but we're going to lose someone good, so getting a platoon goalie for Jarry is probably the most easily accomplished move out of the post ED shakeout.

I'm just over worrying about the ED. We're going to lose someone we'd rather keep, so why waste my time losing sleep over it?

 

[pistolpete11]

Rutherford did a great job of that the past few years with the additions of Pettersson, Marino, and POJ to the defense and McCann, ZAR, and O'Connor as forwards. You can still add good young talent while also trading prospects and picks for players in their primes like Zucker and Kapanen. The team is fairly young around the core and obviously Rutherford did that with a real money cap of $75 million which is a restriction most GM's didn't have. The team is doing really well now even with the injuries so I think Rutherford proved you wrong that you can't fill out a competitive roster. Even with injuries this team has stayed near the top of the standings.

Again I would trade picks and prospects for players that are young or in primes any day. I would trade Poulin and a 2nd for another Kapanen today.

They can afford guys like Zucker and Kap now because, despite JR's best efforts, they didn't trade away ALL of their picks and prospects. They have guys they drafted like Gunetzel, Rust, Jarry, and Blueger who are all out performing their cap hits. Marino was one of JR and Co.'s stokes of brilliance, but I wouldn't count on too many more of those. But those luxuries are going to disappear rather quickly in the next few years with Marino's deal kicking, Blueger needs a new deal next year, and then you have Malkin, Letang, Rust, Kap, McCann, maybe a few others are needing new deals the next year. And who knows about the ED. We all hope they take Matheson or Petts or Zucker or Tanev, but what happens when they take CDS? Everything just becomes significantly more difficult to manage with throwing another $4M player into the mix, removing potential ELC solutions like Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and a flat cap.

I'm not saying to never make those types of deals, but you need to pick your spots and JR picked a few of them already. Picking another one is overkill and puts them in a tough spot going forward.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Totally disagree. A backup goalie can be found pretty easily. #3 center or potential #2 LW not so much.

They take one from each team so while I agree chances aren't high it could happen. Like I said if he finished with the same GAA and save% he has now with 1.91 GAA and .929 save% that would have to be an attractive piece to add. Really comes down to what they chose from the other teams. I agree they most likely take McCann but if DeSmith finishes out this season in the same fashion I might be glad they don't take him. Having a good back up goalie is important. Finding another forward for the 3rd line forward can be done and in fact I would say we still would have a strong 3rd line.

Let's say hypothetically McCann was taken. Next season you still have this group even before off season additions

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
O'Conner-Zohorna-Angello
Lafferty

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Matheson-Friedman
POJ-Ruhwedel
Riikola

Jarry
DeSmith

That is a pretty strong group to start with before even looking to add in the off-season. So I am not worried about the expansion draft. We will not lose anything that we can't live without.

 

[ownal]

In a perfect world, Seattle would Take Zucker and we would replace him with Hall @ 6x6.

 

[pistolpete11]

They take one from each team so while I agree chances aren't high it could happen. Like I said if he finished with the same GAA and save% he has now with 1.91 GAA and .929 save% that would have to be an attractive piece to add. Really comes down to what they chose from the other teams. I agree they most likely take McCann but if DeSmith finishes out this season in the same fashion I might be glad they don't take him. Having a good back up goalie is important. Finding another forward for the 3rd line forward can be done and in fact I would say we still would have a strong 3rd line.

Let's say hypothetically McCann was taken. Next season you still have this group even before off season additions

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
O'Conner-Zohorna-Angello
Lafferty

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Matheson-Friedman
POJ-Ruhwedel
Riikola

Jarry
DeSmith

That is a pretty strong group to start with before even looking to add in the off-season. So I am not worried about the expansion draft. We will not lose anything that we can't live without.

Assuming Teddy takes a similar bridge deal as McCann, that's your team. There is no cap space for offseason additions.

And if they take CDS instead of McCann, you're over the cap and still need to sign a backup goalie.

And you want to add another $4M player on top of that?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I love how people just say "easy to get a backup" like they're all clones and will perform identically.

36 out of 64 goalies who have played 8 games or more (quarter-season'ish) are currently .909 to .859.

Casey is at .920 on the career.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

They can afford guys like Zucker and Kap now because, despite JR's best efforts, they didn't trade away ALL of their picks and prospects. They have guys they drafted like Gunetzel, Rust, Jarry, and Blueger who are all out performing their cap hits. Marino was one of JR and Co.'s stokes of brilliance, but I wouldn't count on too many more of those. But those luxuries are going to disappear rather quickly in the next few years with Marino's deal kicking, Blueger needs a new deal next year, and then you have Malkin, Letang, Rust, Kap, McCann, maybe a few others are needing new deals the next year. And who knows about the ED. We all hope tye take Matheson or Petts or Zucker or Tanev, but what happens when they take CDS? Everything just becomes significantly more difficult to manage with throwing another $4M player into the mix, removing potential ELC solutions like Poulin, Legare, or POJ, and a flat cap.

I'm not saying to never make those types of deals, but you need to pick your spots and JR picked a few of them already. Picking another one is overkill and puts them in a tough spot going forward.

I honestly think you are wrong but you can have your opinion. This team is in a great position cap wise compared to most teams. All the key players are signed and we have POJ waiting in the wings to take one high priced LD off the payroll very soon thanks to Rutherford. Rutherford did a very nice job making our defensman future much brighter bringing in several young defenseman in the past 2 years with Pettersson, Marino, POJ, Lee, and Maniscalco. Also adding Matheson and Ceci both at the time 26 also kept our defense young around the core. Ceci will likely price himself out and Friedman will get a crack at the number 6 spot next season. Love to keep him and we probably could if we traded Pettersson and put POJ in the lineup and used some of that money for Ceci.

This team has the most expensive positions filled for our last few top contending year's. After that it might be time to start selling off for a rebuild or the very least retool. Rutherford was great at that. He took an old slow group around the core and transformed the team into a young fast team around the core in a 1 1/2 years time and back to back Champs.

Rutherford went a different direction in 2018 but quickly saw that it didn't work and since 2019 went back to building a young fast team around the core again. Since 2019 he added McCann, Tanev, Zucker, Kapanen, and ZAR to the forward group and Pettersson, Marino, Matheson, and Ceci to the defense. He added POJ, Lee, and Maniscalco for the pipeline on defense and O'Conner, Zohorna, and Poulin as forwards close to ready in reserve at forward. I think we are in a very nice situation for our cores final top years.

The biggest difference between Rutherford compared to Shero was that Shero traded many top picks and prospects for rentals and aging vets. Rutherford trades picks and prospects for players that are young or in primes with term. Hated Shero's way and loved Rutherford's way. Would trade Poulin and a 2nd tomorrow for another Kapanen type.

You can agree to disagree but I am not changing my opinion on that. Proof is in the results and Pena won two Cups doing this method and built a very strong team now that is going strong even with injuries. Much rather have McCann, Zucker, Kapanen, Marino, Pettersson, POJ, and others for those picks and prospects any day. Most won't turn out and the ones that do won't be better than the players we got and not for several years after our core is no longer elite.

Got to go for it while you got it. We most likely won't see a core like this in our lifetime. The hockey gods have granted me Mario/Jagr and Crosby/Malkin. I can't ask for anything more than that. If I was a Leafs fan I would of never seen a Cup. If I was a Flyers fan I would of been too young to remember seeing a Cup.

 

[Night Shift]

Do you think that squad suddenly is a contender simply by changing the coach???

They're saying between roster construction and what's happening on ice now layed solely on AV. Under AV last year they were the hottest team in the league but seems like his message soured and his expiration date came quick

Are they a contender- last year id say they were. Things fell apart this year for some reason. Kevin Weeks says it's not playing team defense and supporting the goaltenders. Then he alluded to the Pens having the same issue beginning of the season but we made those adjustments

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Assuming Teddy takes a similar bridge deal as McCann, that's your team. There is no cap space for offseason additions.

And if they take CDS instead of McCann, you're over the cap and still need to sign a backup goalie.

And you want to add another $4M player on top of that?

Do you know what the cap is going to be? Plus you could always trade Pettersson and play POJ and add. Your assessment is way off. Pens are in one of the better spots when it comes to keeping the team intact. Most contenders will lose more than us. We could literally keep our top 9 intact. Right now we have that extra floater on who gets that last top 9 spot. If they take McCann we still have a strong top 9, strong defense, and both goalies back. Any team would take that. I wouldn't have a problem going into next season with a O'Conner-Zohorna-Angello 4th line. Pens are in a very strong position.

Yes I would be fine going into next season with no additions and that lineup. I know we will make changes but I could start the season with that lineup and make changes as needed.

 

[pistolpete11]

I honestly think you are wrong but you can have your opinion. This team is in a great position cap wise compared to most teams. All the key players are signed and we have POJ waiting in the wings to take one high priced LD off the payroll very soon thanks to Rutherford. Rutherford did I very nice job making our defensman future much brighter bringing in several young defenseman in the past 2 years with Pettersson, Marino, POJ, Lee, and Maniscalco. Also adding Matheson and Ceci both at the time 26 also kept our defense young around the core. Ceci will likely price himself out and Friedman will get a crack at the number 6 spot next season. Love to keep him and we probably could if we traded Pettersson and put POJ in the lineup and used some of that money for Ceci.

This team has the most expensive positions filled for our last few top contending year's. After that it might be time to start selling off for a rebuild or the very least retool. Rutherford was great at that. He took an old slow group around the core and transformed the team into a young fast team around the core in a 1 1/2 years time and back to back Champs.

Rutherford went a different direction in 2018 but quickly saw that it didn't work and since 2019 went back to building a young fast team around the core again. Since 2019 he added McCann, Tanev, Zucker, Kapanen, and ZAR to the forward group and Pettersson, Marino, Matheson, and Ceci to the defense. He added POJ, Lee, and Maniscalco for the pipeline on defense and O'Conner, Zohorna, and Poulin as forwards close to ready in reserve at forward. I think we are in a very nice situation for our cores final top years.

The biggest difference between Rutherford compared to Shero was that Shero traded many top picks and prospects for rentals and aging vets. Rutherford trades picks and prospects for players that are young or in primes with term. Hated Shero's way and loved Rutherford's way. Would trade Poulin and a 2nd tomorrow for another Kapanen type.

You can agree to disagree but I am not changing my opinion on that. Proof is in the results and Pena won two Cups doing this method and built a very strong team now that is going strong even with injuries. Much rather have McCann, Zucker, Kapanen, Marino, Pettersson, POJ, and others for those picks and prospects any day. Most won't turn out and the ones that do won't be better than the players we got and not for several years after our core is no longer elite.

Got to go for it while you got it. We most likely won't see a core like this in our lifetime. The hockey gods have granted me Mario/Jagr and Crosby/Malkin. I can't ask for anything more than that. If I was a Leafs fan I would of never seen a Cup. If I was a Flyers fan I would of been too young to remember seeing a Cup.

Do we? Because a few posts ago you proposed trading POJ and a 2nd for a top 6 winger. I also don't think it is safe to say they can dump a high priced LD without taking on a contract in return. We did just see Ghost clear waivers after all. And it's even less safe to assume guys like Lee and Maniscalco will be able to step into NHL roles any time soon. They didn't even get the call when we had 5 LD hurt.

I'm not here to bash everything JR did. Like most GM's he did stuff I liked and didn't like, but he helped win us 2 Cups. However, a big part of them winning 2 cups was guys coming in and playing key roles on their ELC. That's why I'm cautioning against trading away the few remaining guys we have that have that type of upside for more $4M role players.

 

[pistolpete11]

Do you know what the cap is going to be? Plus you could always trade Pettersson and play POJ and add. Your assessment is way off. Pens are in one of the better spots when it comes to keeping the team intact. Most contenders will lose more than us. We could literally keep our top 9 intact. Right now we have that extra floater on who gets that last top 9 spot. If they take McCann we still have a strong top 9, strong defense, and both goalies back. Any team would take that. I wouldn't have a problem going into next season with a O'Conner-Zohorna-Angello 4th line. Pens are in a very strong position.

Yes I would be fine going into next season with no additions and that lineup. I know we will make changes but I could start the season with that lineup and make changes as needed.

Right, but you're also proposing trading for another $3M+ contract on top of that.

The cap's not going up. I think that's a pretty safe assumption considering the entire league took a massive hit due to COVID.

Dumping Pettersson without taking on a contract is not likely. We just saw Ghost clear waivers who has more upside and a shorter (i.e. safer) contract.

 

[Night Shift]

However, a big part of them winning 2 cups was guys coming in and playing key roles on their ELC. That's why I'm cautioning against trading away the few remaining guys we have that have that type of upside for more $4M role players.

Totally agree

 

[Peat]

What if the cup was faulty and overrated?

Here the hockey team as a cup metaphor runs short but I do feel very sure that when a team that everyone thought was a bubble team at the very least sets a new record for goals conceded in March and gets humiliated by a team about to break a losing record shift, you're watching the cup getting dropped.

There's a convo to be had about just how good a job Hextall did with the Flyers, but it's at most like 5% based on them looking like a bunch of pillocks vs Buffalo because it's a small part of the whole and they were quite clearly getting bad coaching from a guy Hextall had nothing to do with.

 

[Night Shift]

There's a convo to be had about just how good a job Hextall did with the Flyers, but it's at most like 5% based on them looking like a bunch of pillocks vs Buffalo because it's a small part of the whole and they were quite clearly getting bad coaching from a guy Hextall had nothing to do with.

Thing that hasn't been mentioned is Hextall getting let go prematurely, so he couldn't put his final product out there. He did very well considering what he had when he started.

 

[tom_servo]

In a perfect world, Seattle would Take Zucker and we would replace him with Hall @ 6x6.

Why would you want to be holding the bag on Hall for six years?

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Do we? Because a few posts ago you proposed trading POJ and a 2nd for a top 6 winger. I also don't think it is safe to say they can dump a high priced LD without taking on a contract in return. We did just see Ghost clear waivers after all. And it's even less safe to assume guys like Lee and Maniscalco will be able to step into NHL roles any time soon. They didn't even get the call when we had 5 LD hurt.

I'm not here to bash everything JR did. Like most GM's he did stuff I liked and didn't like, but he helped win us 2 Cups. However, a big part of them winning 2 cups was guys coming in and playing key roles on their ELC. That's why I'm cautioning against trading away the few remaining guys we have that have that type of upside for more $4M role players.

Yes he would be. My player I said I would trade is Poulin and a 2nd. I also said I would do POJ and a 2nd but that is not my first choice. I said I would trade today for another Kapanen type player for Poulin and a 2nd. We will lose a forward in expansion no matter what whether it is McCann, Zucker, Tanev, or whoever so adding another forward still only loses one. Next year still would have this.

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Trade-Malkin-Kapanen
Zucker/McCann-Blueger-Tanev
ZAR-Zohorna-Angello
Lafferty, O"Conner, and maybe resign someone like Erod for the minimum again. This assumea one of Zucker and McCann gets chosen. Maybe they take someone else but no matter what this team is in a strong position cap wise with all important pieces returning. Not many contenders in a better spot than the Pens next season. So again you are way off.

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Matheson-Friedman
Riikola-Ruhwedel
POJ

Jarry
DeSmith

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Why would you want to be holding the bag on Hall for six years?

Agreed, I wouldn't mind him for a rental if the rumors are right and the cost isn't crazy but not giving him 6 years the way he looks now. I rather look for the Kapanen types that are young than players nearing 30 and giving them 6 year deals. Hard pass

 

[ownal]

Why would you want to be holding the bag on Hall for six years?

If he signs for 3 years it would be around 8 million. We can't afford him and Seattle won't take Zucker. It was just a fun thought.

 

[tom_servo]

If he signs for 3 years it would be around 8 million. We can't afford him and Seattle won't take Zucker. It was just a fun thought.

Dude deserves a one year for $5 million tops. He's not getting any more $8 million with term.