Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread|8 Days - TDL Being "Center" of Attention - PART II

[Ugene Magic]

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For shits and giggles, do you make this trade:

Penguins trade Pettersson and Sceviour
Canucks trade Virtanen and Sutter at $2.5 million

If I had any faith that Sully wouldn't try to make McCann/Zucker - Sutter - Virtanen the L3 and BART the L4, maybe.

Now that you mention it, I'm like 95% sure he would do that

I don't have a super high opinion of Virtanen and I can't even imagine where Sutter would fit on this team. Plus his previous go-round here wasn't exactly stellar.

If that's the best Hextall could do... might as well just keep Dragon

I'm not super high on Virtanen either, but it's not exactly going to be easy to add the grit/size that Hextall and Burke are emphatically saying they want. I would also hope that Sutter would only be a depth C who might get in the lineup if there's an injury, but I'm pretty sure the above was right and they'd go with McCann-Sutter-Virtanen as the 3A line.

Maybe just simplify it to Pettersson for Virtanen to avoid giving Sullivan the chance to do that with Sutter.

Virtanen sounds like exactly like Lafferty, tbh.

Virtanen will throw the occasional hit but he’s not gritty

Idk so does Bennett but that wouldn't stop me from acquiring him for cheap.

For as much as I shit talk Lafferty, I'd be at least fine with him as a 4th liner if he'd just cut out the dumb penalties. A better version of Lafferty without the dumb penalties, which I think is a fair description of both Bennett and Virtanen (Virtanen has a lot of PIM but a decent amount of them are coincidental roughings, misconducts or fights), doesn't sound like an awful player to me.

Honestly, it could be because they decided they don't need that extra cap space.

It's also worth pointing out that Virtanen's fancy stats are pretty good overall:



It's also hilarious how much his chart aligns with Denis Gurianov:

Valid, but I can't think of a C/RW I like in this mould.



This is the sort of move I'm worried about tbh. It'll make the Burke happy but I'm less sold it making the team better.

I don't want both. I could live with one for Petts Straight up. Is Sutter or Virtanen really that much better than Erod right now who is probably the weakest link when healthy.

Jake - Sid - Rust
Zucker - Geno - Kap
Virtanen - McCann - Tanev
Zar - TB - Erod
Sceviour/Gaudreau/Lafferty

Jake - Sid - Rust
Zucker - Geno - Kap
McCann - TB - Tanev
Zar - Sutter - Erod
Sceviour/Gaudreau/Lafferty

Too bad his point totals dont

I had this same thought, then I found Virtanen's fancy chart from McCurdy and I'm much less concerned with that. Virtanen is a strong play driving forward analytically and I think he could be a good replacement for Rust down the line, if they decide to let him walk.

My concern is that they'd leave McCann exposed to protect Virtanen, which I wouldn't be that thrilled about. I also think it's worth pointing out that there were some unflattering rumors about Virtanen and McCann when they were on a team together in Vancouver. I would hope they would have matured by now, McCann definitely seems like he has but I've heard negative stuff about Virtanen off the ice.



He also had 36 points in 69 games last year, which was more than what Gurianov had. He's just having a bad year this year.

I think he's probably only a 30-35 point guy normally, probably like 25 ES points and 5-10 PP points a season if I had to guess. But that combined with his size, analytics and physicality results in a pretty solid 3rd liner IMO.

Ya and it could be a good buy low. I wouldn't be oppose to Virtanen, but I dont really want Sutter back.

At this point you find someone and make them available [looking over at LA and Anaheim].

As for available - if Lucic's contract wasn't 3 years long and as expensive as it was he'd be fine as a rental. Retained again and screw the haters - I'd take him and slot him up and down the lineup. Up against slow grindy/interference laden teams and down when we're running transition. Bennett the jury is out on but I think he's unanimously agreed upon here as a solid option. The unfortunate thing for him is that if he does really really well (as whomever our power forward ends up being likely will - as it's a gaping hole we have) - we'd only have him for a couple months and he'd be commanding some $$.

Virtanen is a low IQ RW. I see no fit here. Adding Sutter goes completely against anything this team is about these days.

If covid had never happened— and his contract was shorter— I just know Lucic as a rental would get a 1st

Some Flames fans are really pushing JG out the door. f***ing sucks we got nada to give.

Virtanen, I’d take a chance on. Bringing Sutter back is absolutely insane. Low skill guy who can PK? He’d never leave the lineup.

Reminder: 3/6 of Sutter’s goals this year are in one game. He’s absolute dogshit.

Bennett over Virtanen any day.

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[Big Friggin Dummy]

Unless we can snag Bennett for basically free, I don't really think we should do anything at the deadline. Even then, I'm not super sold on Bennett, it's more of a "f*** it, he either works or is a healthy scratch" move.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In a perfect world Junko would've been snatched weeks ago too. I can't support putting a player like Sutter that is a coach favorite on this roster. Also, where does Virtanen fit? Why are we replacing any of Rust, Kapanen, or Tanev with him?

I'd plan on running with McCann-ERod-Virtanen as the 3A line. Or you can slide McCann to center and have ERod on LW, either one works for me.

That's where he'd fit for this year and next year, and if Rust wants too much money and/or Virtanen shows he can be trusted in a higher role, you bump him up to the top-6 to replace Rust after next year.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd plan on running with McCann-ERod-Virtanen as the 3A line. Or you can slide McCann to center and have ERod on LW, either one works for me.

That's where he'd fit for this year and next year, and if Rust wants too much money and/or Virtanen shows he can be trusted in a higher role, you bump him up to the top-6 to replace Rust after next year.

I don't like it.

 

[Peat]

My biggest issue with Virtanen is the extra year of term. There's some decent possibilities to get guys who can play a bit and be mean in the summer. I don't want to foul them up because a not really fitting Virtanen's hanging around like a bad smell.

I'm also slightly surprised at McCurdy's chart when he has three years of a negative relative XGF%, and worried at how there's so many reports of him being the dullest tool in the box both on and off the ice.

 

[HandshakeLine]

We could ice a DOC - Jankowski - Virtanen line. The remedial hockey ed line!

 

[Empoleon8771]

My biggest issue with Virtanen is the extra year of term. There's some decent possibilities to get guys who can play a bit and be mean in the summer. I don't want to foul them up because a not really fitting Virtanen's hanging around like a bad smell.

I'm also slightly surprised at McCurdy's chart when he has three years of a negative relative XGF%, and worried at how there's so many reports of him being the dullest tool in the box both on and off the ice.

I think this could be a function of usage and linemates. I think a guy who has individually good results can get dragged down by playing in defensive heavy roles or playing with bad linemates. Vancouver has some downright horrendously bad analytical players in their bottom-6, so I could see a situation where Virtanen's overall results are dragged down by playing with guys like Sutter, Roussel and Beagle in a defensive role but his individual results are much stronger.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Unless we can snag Bennett for basically free, I don't really think we should do anything at the deadline. Even then, I'm not super sold on Bennett, it's more of a "f*** it, he either works or is a healthy scratch" move.

That's a very expensive "F-it" healthy scratch move.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Would much prefer a center over a winger.

 

[Pens x]

There has to be a decent top 9 forward out there. Hopefully Burkie can find someone.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Would much prefer a center over a winger.

I'd be okay with one of each. They need that depth.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I can't mock anyone because I said I'd support it as well, but tbt to when people wanted to do Pettersson for Gusev

Now I'm expecting someone to come in here and say they should claim Gusev.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't see why we want shiny new toys.

Our old toys are doing new tricks. Evan Rodrigues is doing 1 spin-o-rama per period. Sam Lafferty hasn't slapped his stick in anyone's face for a couple games. All this is glorious.

 

[Peat]

I think this could be a function of usage and linemates. I think a guy who has individually good results can get dragged down by playing in defensive heavy roles or playing with bad linemates. Vancouver has some downright horrendously bad analytical players in their bottom-6, so I could see a situation where Virtanen's overall results are dragged down by playing with guys like Sutter, Roussel and Beagle in a defensive role but his individual results are much stronger.

Hmm. Last three seasons prior, his 9 most common on ice partners are

Stecher, Edler, Tanev, Horvat, Hutton, Gaudette, Pouliot, Sutter, Roussel.

So yeah, there's some bad players there. But some good ones. If a guy's getting mid-40s xGF%s with Edler, Tanev, Horvat, and dragging them down in the process a little, that's not great.

But that's with roughly 60% defensive zone starts. Gaudette's the only guy there he has high offensive zone starts with. So that's probably got something to do with it.

He seems very much a product of situation and team mates - can't really see any scenarios where he's performed highly other than with the Sedins and Miller/Pettersson. But, not many cases where he's been given strong platforms. I'm still a little suspicious of the idea he's a strong playdriver, but less so.

 

[T1K]

I can't mock anyone because I said I'd support it as well, but tbt to when people wanted to do Pettersson for Gusev

Now I'm expecting someone to come in here and say they should claim Gusev.

What would be the issue with claiming him? The rationale was that his skill set was something we are lacking. His contract is up after this year. Low risk, high reward move.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hmm. Last three seasons prior, his 9 most common on ice partners are

Stecher, Edler, Tanev, Horvat, Hutton, Gaudette, Pouliot, Sutter, Roussel.

So yeah, there's some bad players there. But some good ones. If a guy's getting mid-40s xGF%s with Edler, Tanev, Horvat, and dragging them down in the process a little, that's not great.

But that's with roughly 60% defensive zone starts. Gaudette's the only guy there he has high offensive zone starts with. So that's probably got something to do with it.

He seems very much a product of situation and team mates - can't really see any scenarios where he's performed highly other than with the Sedins and Miller/Pettersson. But, not many cases where he's been given strong platforms. I'm still a little suspicious of the idea he's a strong playdriver, but less so.

He is dumb as hell. That's his issue.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Bodies that have potential to produce are better than some of what we’re icing on a nightly basis.

 

[Peat]

I know he's explicitly not what they want but as a way to add some better depth, Ennis for free sounds pretty useful.

What would be the issue with claiming him? The rationale was that his skill set was something we are lacking. His contract is up after this year. Low risk, high reward move.

We don't have the cap space.

 

[T1K]

I know he's explicitly not what they want but as a way to add some better depth, Ennis for free sounds pretty useful.



We don't have the cap space.

How much do we have left at the moment?

 

[Empoleon8771]

What would be the issue with claiming him? The rationale was that his skill set was something we are lacking. His contract is up after this year. Low risk, high reward move.

1. They don't have the cap space for it.
2. They don't have the roster space (as in role) for it.
3. Gusev sucks, so this isn't a "low risk, high reward" move. If he comes to the Penguins and continues to suck, he will actively be hurting the team at Jack Johnson levels bad.

Hmm. Last three seasons prior, his 9 most common on ice partners are

Stecher, Edler, Tanev, Horvat, Hutton, Gaudette, Pouliot, Sutter, Roussel.

So yeah, there's some bad players there. But some good ones. If a guy's getting mid-40s xGF%s with Edler, Tanev, Horvat, and dragging them down in the process a little, that's not great.

But that's with roughly 60% defensive zone starts. Gaudette's the only guy there he has high offensive zone starts with. So that's probably got something to do with it.

He seems very much a product of situation and team mates - can't really see any scenarios where he's performed highly other than with the Sedins and Miller/Pettersson. But, not many cases where he's been given strong platforms. I'm still a little suspicious of the idea he's a strong playdriver, but less so.

I was also looking up JFresh's Virtanen tables on twitter and they paint more of an expected picture for him:



So I'm not exactly sure how McCurdy's numbers are so different than what is showing up on NST or what JFresh is posting.

 

[Gurglesons]

1. They don't have the cap space for it.
2. They don't have the roster space (as in role) for it.
3. Gusev sucks, so this isn't a "low risk, high reward" move. If he comes to the Penguins and continues to suck, he will actively be hurting the team at Jack Johnson levels bad.

He was pretty good offensively last year. I'd take players stats this year with a grain of salt when they've been on a team with a COVID outbreak.

 

[Peat]

How much do we have left at the moment?

Excluding LTIR, 767k.

We have the space on LTIR with Malkin out, but we'd be screwed when Malkin came back if nobody else was LTIR worthy.

 

[Andy99]

Excluding LTIR, 767k.

We have the space on LTIR with Malkin out, but we'd be screwed when Malkin came back if nobody else was LTIR worthy.

or we could just waive Jank and/or Sceviour?

 

[Empoleon8771]

He was pretty good offensively last year. I'd take players stats this year with a grain of salt when they've been on a team with a COVID outbreak.

Was he good at producing last year or was he good offensively last year? Personally, I don't see a need for pure point producers here. If they're getting a more offensive winger, I want someone who can drive plays well, not just finish them.

That's a legitimate question, by the way. I don't know the answer to that.

or we could just waive Jank and/or Sceviour?

Gusev makes 6.5x as much as Jankowski and about 3.75x as much as Sceviour.