Proposal: Pittsburgh-Anaheim

[CheckingLineCenter]

Assuming Lindholm cannot be re-signed.

To Pittsburgh:
Hampus Lindholm

To Anaheim:
Brian Dumoulin
2022 1st

Seen some angst from Ducks fans that losing Lindholm is a blow that can’t necessarily be replaced by picks and prospects. Dumoulin has been the steady hand on the Pens backend for 5+ years now. This deal lets Anaheim hedge somewhat and get both a top pair caliber defender on the current team and a quality draft pick.

Penguins pay a steep price, but would be able to always ice one of Letang or Lindholm for 50 minutes a night.

Click to read more...

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Assuming Lindholm cannot be re-signed.

To Pittsburgh:
Hampus Lindholm

To Anaheim:
Brian Dumoulin
2022 1st

Seen some angst from Ducks fans that losing Lindholm is a blow that can’t necessarily be replaced by picks and prospects. Dumoulin has been the steady hand on the Pens backend for 5+ years now. This deal lets Anaheim hedge somewhat and get both a top pair caliber defender on the current team and a quality draft pick.

Penguins pay a steep price, but would be able to always ice one of Letang or Lindholm for 50 minutes a night.

i think the team will likely aim younger, if lindholm is moving on. Young dmen/prospect + 1st … is what I imagine our ask is…. Base, no retention/extension

not sure I believe the reports tho

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why would the Penguins do this? The difference between Dumoulin and Lindholm, especially with Lindholm being a pending UFA, is absolutely not a 1st round pick.

You don't add a 1st round pick on top of a #2 DFD to get a slightly better fringe #1/2 TWD.

 

[dracom]

So a late 1st and a 30 year old Dmen who after this season has one more year on his contract, where we find ourselves in the same position.

don’t really see how that helps us at all

 

[Gliff]

Not sure either team really wants this.

 

[orby]

I have a difficult time imagining the Penguins would want to trade away Dumoulin for a minor upgrade in the middle of the season, especially at the cost of a first round pick when the Pens already have so few legit prospects in the system.

Dumo strikes me as a pretty important leader on the Pens; he was there for the cup runs, has worn the A, and he's been on the team longer than anyone besides 87/71/58. I don't think it'd have a positive ripple effect in the locker room if he were shipped out at the deadline, even if Lindholm is a better player overall.

 

[molon labe]

I have a difficult time imagining the Penguins would want to trade away Dumoulin for a minor upgrade in the middle of the season, especially at the cost of a first round pick when the Pens already have so few legit prospects in the system.

Dumo strikes me as a pretty important leader on the Pens; he was there for the cup runs, has worn the A, and he's been on the team longer than anyone besides 87/71/58. I don't think it'd have a positive ripple effect in the locker room if he were shipped out at the deadline, even if Lindholm is a better player overall.

This has happened with Rust/Guentzel in the lineup - both of whom are leaders in their own right. Think this point is more than a throw-in; it adds legitimate perspective to his status and value here.

I'll also take another year of having an underpaid Dumo over most else what we'd get in a return. He currently makes Petts/Marino money (less, actually)...we're not replacing what he brings cheaply. Add your own price as to what chemistry with the team theoretically 'costs' as well.

 

[bsu]

No. We can get a deal with a younger player.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I don't see this working for either side. Anaheim certainly doesn't want an older and lesser Dman in exchange for Lindholm

 

[IIxGURUxII]

Not sure why the Pens are adding a 1st to this, seems more like a 3rd would fill the gap.
Though if i were the Pens, i would not make this move. my opinion of course

 

[SEALBound]

Why would the Penguins do this? The difference between Dumoulin and Lindholm, especially with Lindholm being a pending UFA, is absolutely not a 1st round pick.

You don't add a 1st round pick on top of a #2 DFD to get a slightly better fringe #1/2 TWD.

I tend to agree. I think the deal to be made, if there even is one, would be John Marino+ to the Ducks, not Dumoulin. I would even suggest Pettersson+1st but I'm not sure that's the deal the Ducks would be looking for.

 

[bsu]

Both teams think this deal sucks.

 

[Beauner]

I tend to agree. I think the deal to be made, if there even is one, would be John Marino+ to the Ducks, not Dumoulin. I would even suggest Pettersson+1st but I'm not sure that's the deal the Ducks would be looking for.

I still don't see how any of those deals make sense. You likely need to add a depth D to begin with- and these trades remove a piece for a marginal upgrade, leaving you with the same level of depth as before. I'm not against trading the 1st but at that point just keep it

 

[SEALBound]

I still don't see how any of those deals make sense. You likely need to add a depth D to begin with- and these trades remove a piece for a marginal upgrade, leaving you with the same level of depth as before. I'm not against trading the 1st but at that point just keep it

You're going to have to clarify a bit. If you are saying...

Lindholm is only a marginal upgrade on Dumoulin, I would probably agree. Or...

Lindholm is only a marginal upgrade on Marino, I'm going to disagree and suggest that Lindholm is the end product of what we hope Marino becomes. Or...

Lindholm is only a marginal upgrade on Pettersson, I'm going to strongly disagree. Different styles, different players. Would absolutely be worth the upgrade.

Another aspect of this, for me, is thinking about Letang. If he decides to jet to Montreal, this trade would go a long way in helping us rebuild the defense. We'd be super strong down the left side but our RD would be suffering, unless it was Petts+1st.

Dumoulin-Marino
Lindholm-XXXX
Matheson-XXXX

is a top 4 we could certainly work from. My other issue with this, is that Lindholm is likely going to command a Nurse or Jones level payment. I can't imagine he's not asking for the $9.5mil deal. You can hopefully get him down to high 8's or right at 9mil if you give the better term but that's obviously significantly higher than what we are paying anyone else. Letang likely comes cheaper than that as well and resigning him is the solidification of contending for the Sid/Geno era and then rebuilding or retooling when the time comes. So it's a tough sell to want to bring someone like Lindholm to Pittsburgh to start with, let alone begin thinking about the trade value.

 

[Gurglesons]

Lindholm rocks, but I don’t see him getting moved for only a 1st plus the last thing PIT needs to do is acquire an elite player with injury concerns.

 

[Beauner]

You're going to have to clarify a bit. If you are saying...

Lindholm is only a marginal upgrade on Dumoulin, I would probably agree. Or...

Lindholm is only a marginal upgrade on Marino, I'm going to disagree and suggest that Lindholm is the end product of what we hope Marino becomes. Or...

Lindholm is only a marginal upgrade on Pettersson, I'm going to strongly disagree. Different styles, different players. Would absolutely be worth the upgrade.

Another aspect of this, for me, is thinking about Letang. If he decides to jet to Montreal, this trade would go a long way in helping us rebuild the defense. We'd be super strong down the left side but our RD would be suffering, unless it was Petts+1st.

Dumoulin-Marino
Lindholm-XXXX
Matheson-XXXX

is a top 4 we could certainly work from. My other issue with this, is that Lindholm is likely going to command a Nurse or Jones level payment. I can't imagine he's not asking for the $9.5mil deal. You can hopefully get him down to high 8's or right at 9mil if you give the better term but that's obviously significantly higher than what we are paying anyone else. Letang likely comes cheaper than that as well and resigning him is the solidification of contending for the Sid/Geno era and then rebuilding or retooling when the time comes. So it's a tough sell to want to bring someone like Lindholm to Pittsburgh to start with, let alone begin thinking about the trade value.

I'm saying it marginally upgrades the defense as a whole. Yes Lindholm>Marino or Pettersson but your depth 1-6 is basically still the same. I'd spend a lesser pick and cap space on a RHD that's a 4/5.

Add, don't replace.

 

[Extra Texture]

I would absolutely love (love, love) to see the Pens get Lindholm. And as far as making it work via trade, this is pretty creative and smart for both teams, albeit unlikely. I think the Pens just need Dumo to be the physical yin to Letang's PMD yang. With him under contract for another year, I'd rather ride it out, and get another year+ of him than move him before that.

But if Lindholm is set on testing the market, I would much rather see us chase him as a free agent, and try to work a trade for Pettersson (or Matheson at his current value, considering his play this year) elsewhere to open up the gap. Pens are so overloaded with LD, and need to relieve the logjam somehow.

I get the feeling that Letang will be leaving. He's playing so well, some GM is going to throw a massive deal at him. If that's the case, the Pens will have alot of free money on the backend. In that scenario, I'd expect them to chase someone like Klingberg as a (poor man's) like for like replacement. But a good right sider to fill the void.

I'm curious among Ducks fans: what would the price be, at the TDL (assuming Anaheim are out of it) for Manson?

 

[orby]

But if Lindholm is set on testing the market, I would much rather see us chase him as a free agent, and try to work a trade for Pettersson (or Matheson at his current value, considering his play this year) elsewhere to open up the gap. Pens are so overloaded with LD, and need to relieve the logjam somehow.

I would also be interested in seeing the Pens pursue Lindholm in free agency rather than trading for him, although as you mention, a lot depends on what happens with Letang, and whether the Pens choose to keep loading up for the remainder of Sid's career or just start coasting into a rebuild. The fact that we're so close to that point is part of what makes me hope Hextall is hesitant to trade first rounders at all.

 

[Habs10025]

Assuming Lindholm cannot be re-signed.

To Pittsburgh:
Hampus Lindholm

To Anaheim:
Brian Dumoulin
2022 1st

Seen some angst from Ducks fans that losing Lindholm is a blow that can’t necessarily be replaced by picks and prospects. Dumoulin has been the steady hand on the Pens backend for 5+ years now. This deal lets Anaheim hedge somewhat and get both a top pair caliber defender on the current team and a quality draft pick.

Penguins pay a steep price, but would be able to always ice one of Letang or Lindholm for 50 minutes a night.

Pittsburgh reject this trade.

 

[Extra Texture]

I would also be interested in seeing the Pens pursue Lindholm in free agency rather than trading for him, although as you mention, a lot depends on what happens with Letang, and whether the Pens choose to keep loading up for the remainder of Sid's career or just start coasting into a rebuild. The fact that we're so close to that point is part of what makes me hope Hextall is hesitant to trade first rounders at all.

Very true. It definitely hinges on whether Letang gets this insane offer from somewhere else and walks. I figure right now, he stays, but if he does get some mega offer and walks, I feel like a Klingbergian type answer (fill in his role via FA and hope the new arrival and Matheson can shoulder the offensive load) is the most likely fallback plan.

That said, if Matheson can keep this up, landing a more physical RD through trade and scrambling the pairings a bit might be feasible (and probably cheaper option) too.

 

[McDonald19]

Ducks are looking for picks and 18-23 year old players/prospects.

Dumoulin isn’t a fit.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Both teams think this deal sucks.

Sign of a good trade proposal.

In reality if the Ducks say no they say no, but it’s a lot of value for UFA d-man and it affords them flexibility instead of leaving a giant hole on their roster. Not like Dumo is locked in for 5 more years either. I completely get why they decline however.

I tend to agree. I think the deal to be made, if there even is one, would be John Marino+ to the Ducks, not Dumoulin. I would even suggest Pettersson+1st but I'm not sure that's the deal the Ducks would be looking for.

Yeah I mean Petts+1st would be the perfect deal for our roster, but I did it from the Ducks POV.

My idea was instead of elite partner in Dumo for Letang, you get an elite option to drive 2nd pairing and put him with Marino. You ice x-Letang and Lindholm-Marino for the bulk of games (giving Geno a top pair behind his line like the Crosby unit gets) while Matheson feasts on the leftovers.

Definitely is a gamble on that “X” player being able to stomach the top pair minutes next to Letang. But one I’d make.

I understand the reservations from both sides though. It’s a tough one to even convince myself on.

That said, if Matheson can keep this up, landing a more physical RD through trade and scrambling the pairings a bit might be feasible (and probably cheaper option) too.

Definitely on board with this option. Mark Pysyk comes to mind. I even think the Pens could do nothing on the backend and be ok.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I would absolutely love (love, love) to see the Pens get Lindholm. And as far as making it work via trade, this is pretty creative and smart for both teams, albeit unlikely. I think the Pens just need Dumo to be the physical yin to Letang's PMD yang. With him under contract for another year, I'd rather ride it out, and get another year+ of him than move him before that.

But if Lindholm is set on testing the market, I would much rather see us chase him as a free agent, and try to work a trade for Pettersson (or Matheson at his current value, considering his play this year) elsewhere to open up the gap. Pens are so overloaded with LD, and need to relieve the logjam somehow.

I get the feeling that Letang will be leaving. He's playing so well, some GM is going to throw a massive deal at him. If that's the case, the Pens will have alot of free money on the backend. In that scenario, I'd expect them to chase someone like Klingberg as a (poor man's) like for like replacement. But a good right sider to fill the void.

I'm curious among Ducks fans: what would the price be, at the TDL (assuming Anaheim are out of it) for Manson?

Just to clarify, I don't think the Ducks place in the standings will matter. Based on Verbeek's comments, he's either going to get the key UFA's signed, or trade them prior to the deadline. I think he acknowledges that the Ducks aren't true contenders this year regardless of their place in their standings, and will look more at the big picture - which is the right call IMO.

If they don't work out an extension with Manson and he hits the trade block, I think some contender would give up their 1st. It all depends on the way the market shapes up, but he's the type of D a lot of teams would love to add heading into a playoff run. Certainly can't see why he won't be as coveted (or more) than recent rentals who cost a 1st rounder.

 

[SEALBound]

S
Yeah I mean Petts+1st would be the perfect deal for our roster, but I did it from the Ducks POV.

My idea was instead of elite partner in Dumo for Letang, you get an elite option to drive 2nd pairing and put him with Marino. You ice x-Letang and Lindholm-Marino for the bulk of games (giving Geno a top pair behind his line like the Crosby unit gets) while Matheson feasts on the leftovers.

Definitely is a gamble on that “X” player being able to stomach the top pair minutes next to Letang. But one I’d make.

I understand the reservations from both sides though. It’s a tough one to even convince myself on.

Yeah, it's a tough premise for both sides which means it's probably not likely to happen. That said, it would likely be:

Matheson-Letang
Lindholm-Marino

and then you piece together a bottom pairing, like POJ-Freidman/Rudwedel. You'd have to do something to offset the cost of Lindholm. Hell, maybe you throw in Zucker as an extra piece and take back a young kid or pick. Then Anaheim can either flip Zucker or keep him to fill in for any UFAs that leave.

 

[Black N Gold]

Assuming Lindholm cannot be re-signed.

To Pittsburgh:
Hampus Lindholm

To Anaheim:
Brian Dumoulin
2022 1st

Seen some angst from Ducks fans that losing Lindholm is a blow that can’t necessarily be replaced by picks and prospects. Dumoulin has been the steady hand on the Pens backend for 5+ years now. This deal lets Anaheim hedge somewhat and get both a top pair caliber defender on the current team and a quality draft pick.

Penguins pay a steep price, but would be able to always ice one of Letang or Lindholm for 50 minutes a night.

That is a hard no from Pittsburgh. Lindholm is having an offer year, Dumoulin is our best defenseman, and a 1st hell no.....