Phoenix CXVIII: No Promises

[Boris Zubov]

I said "fairly" substantial, nothing earth shattering, but a definite change from the past. I will not say what as it may reveal my identity.

LeBluster? Is that you?

 

[Whileee]

The only thing I can contribute to the "phantom money" ploy, is that the team is currently making fairly substantial purchases w/o deliberation, that was constantly the norm prior to this ownership group.

So, they're still burning through the NHL line of credit, are they?

 

[Llama19]

Chumming of the local media waters?

City of Glendale made final payment to NHL for Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"Now, three years after the agreement, Glendale paid the last $5 million left as the final payment on Sept. 20 according to the Glendale Star.

Although the city of Glendale has finished paying off their agreement with the NHL, that does not necessarily mean the Coyotes will remain there.

According to Arizona Sports’ Craig Morgan, president and CEO Anthony LeBlanc stated back in June that the team has chosen a site for their new arena.

Morgan stated that LeBlanc has a backup plan in place if the chosen site does not work out for the team, but would not provide any specifics on that or the primary location."

Source: http://ktar.com/story/1306220/city-of-glendale-made-final-payment-to-nhl-for-arizona-coyotes/

NALA +20

 

[mesamonster]

So, they're still burning through the NHL line of credit, are they? [/QUOTE

Unless someone can verify the wherewithal of Drummond, I have to believe that the league is funding this franchise and have been for many years! What i have not been able to understand is what could the possible end game be for IA? I am going under the assumption that IA has been tapping some source of capital to fund their yearly deficits. Those deficits are likely being combined with the funds already owing, so what is left for IA in the end?

 

[Fairview]

So, they're still burning through the NHL line of credit, are they?

Gotta spend that Las Vegas expansion cash, before Uncle Gary takes it back

 

[mesamonster]

Gotta spend that Las Vegas expansion cash

Thats assuming the NHL is going to give it to them? Seems the league is owed quite a bit of money from IA, why not begin now and keep the $16MM as a down payment on what will eventually need to be collected?

 

[Killion]

I dont believe theyve put in anything at all but the initial down of somewhere around $50M or so give or take $10m up or down. That that investment was capped, that there would be no cash calls, that the purchase of their share of the franchise would be fully funded by the COG who would be covering that end in funneling the juice on the loan directly to FIG; that the rest of the operational costs would be covered fully by the NHL with an $85M loan, uncapped revenue sharing, proceeds from the Commissioners Development Fund, Central & Broadcast Revenues; the FIG loan then bought out, IA thereafter availing themselves of the NHL's Bank LOC which required an American signator (Barroway).

That they were under strict orders out of New York to keep costs to an absolute bare minimum from years one through five while the NHL tried to figure out what to do with the franchise. That maybe theyd stabilize things a bit, turn things around just enough to attract a real owner with real money what with the broadcast contract revenues up for renegotiation, betting that overall franchises values would increase as a result of that and then of course there was the Ballmer sale... a $500M price tag slapped on entry, paid by a city 300 miles away in almost straight shot along I-93. Could almost call that and everything else, all the rest of the factors a Hole In One. From 2009 when they were forced to buy the club out of BK for $140M, the amount required to satisfy creditors and in no way reflective of the franchises actual value which was in fact far less than that of course, many suggesting it was actualy less than zero if not zero squared.

As we all know, through to 2013 the needle just kept going up & up into the red, wouldnt/couldnt give it away, in for $170M themselves which is what they were asking & what they announced as the "sale price", Glendale out of pocket $100M over a mere 24mnth period, the final $5M of that just paid off as per the article above. The League had backup of course; TNSE had Glendale not agreed to the $50M "insurance premiums, cards that would never be pulled" (running that scam twice) according to Bill Daly; and, I believe Quebecor in 2013 had the Council not voted to approve the Lease & Management Contracts with IceArizona. Conservatively, the League & the creditors, the bank, they must be into this little adventure by now to the tune of at least $300M or more and yes they can recoup that & more in selling for Relo no problem. Gary Bettman promised the BOG's this wouldnt cost them anything and so far not only has he kept his word he's about to deliver in Spades. Either the kind that hit the dirt & move earth in the East Valley or out of state, possibly out of country. I really do believe were down to the wire here, this season/year make or break. Hold or fold.

As for "whats in it for IceArizona"?... If they can pull this arena dealeo off they'll have bought themselves time. If they cant, their rewards for stewardship I suspect will see a full return on their initial investment of app $50M with interest, LeBlanc as President & COO has built himself a nice little nest egg, made all of the right kinds of connections, easily see him either moving laterally to another club in some form of an executive role or perhaps retaining ownership/control & day~day at the AHL level. No idea what Drummond might wind up doing, likely returning to Alberta, junior oil & gas plays. The others, all those minority investors collecting their t-shirts & souvenirs, off-loading from the Fantasy Ownership Cruise, heading to the fotomat, pictures & tales to tell their Grandchildren about how they once "owned part of an NHL franchise" to go with the stories about the 7' Musky they caught one time up at Lake of the Woods or wherever... but got away of course.... as for Barroway who knows? Minority stake somewhere perhaps. He doesnt have the wherewithal to be a majority owner; George Gosbee maybe getting rewarded with first right of refusal on a minority stake in the Flames, his hometown. Who knows. But Every Good Boy Deserves a Favor & theyve all played their roles according to script. LeBlanc not being held accountable nor apparently being held responsible in any way whatsoever for making a hash of things with Glendale (I mean look, did the beyond incompetent-duplicitous Don Waddell have a problem finding a job after betraying the good people of Atlanta?).... To be honest with you I actually do hope they manage to get an extension, do go for it with a new building, the fans deserve to keep that club come Hell or Highwater just based on what theyve been put through & that somehow someway things get worked out & resolved, and that includes a change of stewardship under IA and NHL ownership. Realistically, I just dont see it happening. Not within the next 6mnths I dont.

 

[Fairview]

Getting a new arena solves nothing. GRA was not the problem. Location of the arena just a smokescreen to distract from the truth of the matter. The team is swimming in debt...that is the REAL problem. They already had a very sweet subsidy deal with Glendale and were still losing money hand over fist, change the location of the arena...MAYBE pick up a few thousand on average per game and that is not a gimme. Even with a similar subsidy plan from a tribe or the university they are still smothered in debt. No owner with cash to help exhume the body. Nothing substantial changes on the financial side by moving the team elsewhere in Arizona. Realistically even if you could magically make the Coyotes a revenue generator on par with the Leafs, it would take years to crawl out from under this debt, actually purchase the team and start investing in the market. Since we know them becoming Leaf-like in cash flow is NEVER going to happen, the only way the team becomes financially solvent in Arizona is with a REAL owner with actual cash...no puppets...failing that, relocation sale is the only thing that wipes the slate clean. NHL returns with an expansion team in less than 10 years and does things properly with that team.

 

[Killion]

Thats assuming the NHL is going to give it to them? Seems the league is owed quite a bit of money from IA, why not begin now and keep the $16MM as a down payment on what will eventually need to be collected?

I dont see them receiving that mesa. The NHL would have to have completely changed its spots, being beyond generous in not only financing the sale/purchase then just "gifting" Expansion Funds, Central & Broadcast Rev's etc to these guys and allowing them to use those monies at their own discretion, which may or may not include paying off the $85M NHL Loan, paying only minimums on their LOC etc. No. I think their on a real short-leash. Every dollar accounted for, very very close over-site by the NHL who are the ones on the hook, still the real owners of the club as the purchase was beyond financed. Crazy. Had everything gone tickety-boo with the COG & real progress made on & off the ice, real monied investors arriving then perhaps yes, these guys couldve leveraged their way into the ownership suites for real but that all a work in progress that came to a screeching halt when Glendale had finally had enough & enough votes to put up that brick wall.... then very curiously hired AEG to stand guard & look out for their best interests while at the same time giving them an out-clause should the team leave. Absolutely bizarre. Real wild card there in AEG to be sure, story far from over.

 

[Mightygoose]

Getting a new arena solves nothing. GRA was not the problem. Location of the arena just a smokescreen to distract from the truth of the matter. The team is swimming in debt...that is the REAL problem. They already had a very sweet subsidy deal with Glendale and were still losing money hand over fist, change the location of the arena...MAYBE pick up a few thousand on average per game and that is not a gimme. Even with a similar subsidy plan from a tribe or the university they are still smothered in debt. No owner with cash to help exhume the body. Nothing substantial changes on the financial side by moving the team elsewhere in Arizona. Realistically even if you could magically make the Coyotes a revenue generator on par with the

Leafs, it would take years to crawl out from under this debt, actually purchase the team and start investing in the market. Since we know them becoming Leaf-like in cash flow is NEVER going to happen, the only way the team becomes financially solvent in Arizona is with a REAL owner with actual cash...no puppets...failing that, relocation sale is the only thing that wipes the slate clean. NHL returns with an expansion team in less than 10 years and does things properly with that team.

And that what gets so lost in this whole new arena search.

Even after Gelndale financed pretty much of the whole arena, the lease still had to be redone to make ot more team freindly. This was going to be done even if Reinsdorf would have biught them instead of them going to BK.

So under this ownerhip we've seen attendance decline, TV ratings decline, no playoffs and they butchered the lease that was approved or them in order to purchase the team in the first place.

Instead of looking around for a new arena to oversaturate the market, how about the league recuit some investors with real local ties....not a bunch of Canadians or East Coast guys that buys homes in the area and call themselves 'local'. Guys with real cash....have IA swallow their pride snd that can work with AEG - league partners and work out a long term deal at GRA.....the one sitting infront of them the entire time

 

[Fairview]

Thats assuming the NHL is going to give it to them? Seems the league is owed quite a bit of money from IA, why not begin now and keep the $16MM as a down payment on what will eventually need to be collected?

I think the expansion cash gives them a little wiggle room. If expansion had not happened, IA would still have to put something down, if only just to cover some of the interest on what they owe to the bank. The expansion cash would make the interest payment a little less painful. I don't believe that they are going to accelerate their payment plan based on the extra money and I think that the NHL would be ok with that as one way or another they get all their cash back when the team is sold.

And that what gets so lost in this whole new arena search.

Even after Gelndale financed pretty much of the whole arena, the lease still had to be redone to make ot more team freindly. This was going to be done even if Reinsdorf would have biught them instead of them going to BK.

So under this ownerhip we've seen attendance decline, TV ratings decline, no playoffs and they butchered the lease that was approved or them in order to purchase the team in the first place.

Instead of looking around for a new arena to oversaturate the market, how about the league recuit some investors with real local ties....not a bunch of Canadians or East Coast guys that buys homes in the area and call themselves 'local'. Guys with real cash....have IA swallow their pride snd that can work with AEG - league partners and work out a long term deal at GRA.....the one sitting infront of them the entire time

I think the league has been trying to find real owners since bankruptcy and they can' t give the team away to anyone with money. People with money tend to want to keep it..not throw it into a money pit

 

[Glacial]

The only thing I can contribute to the "phantom money" ploy, is that the team is currently making fairly substantial purchases w/o deliberation, that was constantly the norm prior to this ownership group.

I'm going to highlight the other part that caught my eye. Who isn't deliberating with who else? The other owners? So the majority shareholder is going ahead with "substantial purchases" without consultation or input from the other shareholders?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

And that what gets so lost in this whole new arena search.

Even after Gelndale financed pretty much of the whole arena, the lease still had to be redone to make ot more team freindly. This was going to be done even if Reinsdorf would have biught them instead of them going to BK.

So under this ownerhip we've seen attendance decline, TV ratings decline, no playoffs and they butchered the lease that was approved or them in order to purchase the team in the first place.

Instead of looking around for a new arena to oversaturate the market, how about the league recuit some investors with real local ties....not a bunch of Canadians or East Coast guys that buys homes in the area and call themselves 'local'. Guys with real cash....have IA swallow their pride snd that can work with AEG - league partners and work out a long term deal at GRA.....the one sitting infront of them the entire time

They've been looking for a real owner for about a decade now. This is fantasy, unless someone wins the powerball.

 

[Llama19]

They've been looking for a real owner for about a decade now. This is fantasy, unless someone wins the powerball.

The current POWERBALL is estimated to be about $107 million which I do not believe is enough, at this point...

 

[enarwpg]

So in 2 weeks we get another superlative to add to super progressed and advanced?

Edit: What's the fastest an arena can reasonably be erected and furnished enough to play Hockey?

...more like " .. make no presumptions about our precociously progressed pledge to procure a pre-eminent "puck palace" .. "

Can hardly wait

 

[enarwpg]

It isn't about the need as much as it's about what they are willing to do.

Sharing a facility with a professional sports franchise is nothing new to them. The Cardinals spent 20 years at Sun Devil Stadium so this would not be their first rodeo.

It's been no secret either that ASU wants to elevate their stature in basketball and be a player in hosting tournament events. Can't do that with the 11k arena they have now. 15k wouldn't even hack it either. But with Ice Arizona on board, you begin to add some clout. Despite what anyone here thinks of them.

Plus..... I'm getting the impression that there's more than just an arena involved with this. LeBlanc did refer to this as a complex real estate deal. Not just an arena. And I think that's one of the reasons why this is taking the time it is.

Westgate II ?
.
.

 

[enarwpg]

Chumming of the local media waters?

City of Glendale made final payment to NHL for Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"Now, three years after the agreement, Glendale paid the last $5 million left as the final payment on Sept. 20 according to the Glendale Star.

Although the city of Glendale has finished paying off their agreement with the NHL, that does not necessarily mean the Coyotes will remain there.

According to Arizona Sports’ Craig Morgan, president and CEO Anthony LeBlanc stated back in June that the team has chosen a site for their new arena.

Morgan stated that LeBlanc has a backup plan in place if the chosen site does not work out for the team, but would not provide any specifics on that or the primary location."

Source: http://ktar.com/story/1306220/city-of-glendale-made-final-payment-to-nhl-for-arizona-coyotes/

NALA +20

Why would anyone announce they've selected a site and then spend financial and or other resources (which they may or may not have) in an attempt to move the project forward only for it to not work out because it really wasn't the right sight (pun intended)....?
.

 

[Llama19]

Westgate II ?
.
.

Irony?

Well...the former Los Arcos Mall site (which could have been the Coyotes arena location if the Scottsdale City Council had not said no after then Coyotes owner Ellman would not release their financials, and then Mayor Scruggs had them come to Glendale) is now SkySong(*)...

But, Mr LeBlanc's announcement, if any, is not likely to be that location...

(*) http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...kysong-complex-lands-starwood-hotel/87029446/

 

[Fairview]

...more like " .. make no presumptions about our precociously progressed pledge to procure a pre-eminent "puck palace" .. "

Can hardly wait

Only 5 more sleeps until the Big Announcement!!!

Will the Mystery Partner be revealed???

 

[TheLegend]

Westgate II ?
.
.

That was my thought. There is already a sizeable mall (Tempe Marketplace) not far from where the Karsten site is located. ASU is also looking to do more to that site than just athletic facilities.

 

[mesamonster]

That was my thought. There is already a sizeable mall (Tempe Marketplace) not far from where the Karsten site is located. ASU is also looking to do more to that site than just athletic facilities.

Still begs the question, what (other than 41 dates) does IA bring to the table? Anyone have that answer?

 

[Fairview]

Still begs the question, what (other than 41 dates) does IA bring to the table? Anyone have that answer?

1) An insatiable need for cash??

2) An innovative non-standard form of accounting and bookkeeping??

 

[TheLegend]

Still begs the question, what (other than 41 dates) does IA bring to the table? Anyone have that answer?

Other than LeBlanc commenting back last summer that IA could front cash for part of the costs in building a new arena there's really nothing to go on. We'll just have to wait and see one way or the other how it pans out.

At this point I'm only interested in what this deal ends up looking like.... if it happens.

 

[Whileee]

Other than LeBlanc commenting back last summer that IA could front cash for part of the costs in building a new arena there's really nothing to go on. We'll just have to wait and see one way or the other how it pans out.

At this point I'm only interested in what this deal ends up looking like.... if it happens.

Somebody might want to check their financial wherewithal before moving forward with a deal that requires IA cash. Last time this happened a rather cuddly Glendale administration found that their assertions about their financial wherewithal were bogus.

 

[TheLegend]

Somebody might want to check their financial wherewithal before moving forward with a deal that requires IA cash. Last time this happened a rather cuddly Glendale administration found that their assertions about their financial wherewithal were bogus.

Glendale knew what they were getting into. Don't kid yourself.