If they were having all these meetings to put together a deal of this magnitude wouldn't at least something need to be disclosed with all the open meeting laws? Except of course if its a tribe.
Phoenix CXVIII: No Promises
- Thread starter TheLegend
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Yes, especially with all the previous denials from the supposed partners in the past.
Will someone actually admit that they are partnering with AI and their money pit ?
I CAN'T WAIT
Llama19
Registered User
Yes, seems like the logical group...
The various tribal land owners, associated with the former Scottsdale Six Drive-In location...
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Yes, especially with all the previous denials from the supposed partners in the past.
Will someone actually admit that they are partnering with AI and their money pit ?
I CAN'T WAIT
According to Mr LeBlanc's latest statement...we will see...soon...very soon...
Headshot77
Bad Photoshopper
If you're counting at home, we have just a little over 19 fortnights to go.
Interesting to read of the Tobias Reider signing. Good for the on ice product but curious in that the Coyotes now have 51 players under contract and have a mere 1 million of cap space remaining! Here they are a Cap team and with perhaps the weakest income and balance sheets in the NHL. This year will test GB and his desire to continue to fund the deficits associated with IA. I am certain the expense run rate for this team has to be the highest ever. Now what will the revenue line look like?
Injuries and/or non performance will push young mr. Chayka up against the ceiling if he finds it necessary to trade for additional talent at some point?
Injuries and/or non performance will push young mr. Chayka up against the ceiling if he finds it necessary to trade for additional talent at some point?
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When Bolland goes on LTIR, Chayka will get some flexibility back. If he trades, he's going to offload salary if he needs to.
I'm having difficulties to understand the relationship between AEG and IceArizona.
What are the business incentives for AEG to extend the Coyotes lease for 2 years if IceArizona is planning to build a competitive venue? Would AEG kill a future competitor automatically by dropping the Coyotes without a venue for 2 years even if they make less money than possible in those 2 years?
What are the business incentives for AEG to extend the Coyotes lease for 2 years if IceArizona is planning to build a competitive venue? Would AEG kill a future competitor automatically by dropping the Coyotes without a venue for 2 years even if they make less money than possible in those 2 years?
BattleBorn
50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
AEG essentially takes the place of the City of Glendale when it comes to the Coyotes lease. The team negotiates with AEG instead of the CoG. Additionally, if I'm remembering correctly, AEG can get out of their contract with the CoG if the Coyotes leave Gila River Arena.
So, essentially it's AEG's job to keep the Coyotes in Glendale and look out for themselves, the league, the Coyotes, and the CoG or kill the team by not re-signing them to a lease and try to save the GRA's position in the valley and the CoG's arena. Should the Coyotes leave, AEG would be able to renegotiate their contract with the CoG or leave the venue altogether.
However, if ASU is going to build an arena to replace the Wells Fargo Arena with or without the Coyotes the loss of the Coyotes in the metro area may not have a major effect on GRA since there will be an additional, more centrally located arena there anyways. However, an arena without a major professional sports tenant does not require a lot of the bells and whistles an NHL/NBA arena would require. ASU could potentially put up a university/college level arena to serve only their purposes and not damage the GRA's position for high level non-sports events in the valley.
So, after all that...I don't know what they'll do. I've got no clue what ASU's plans are or where AEG's loyalties will lie. Whether that's with the league, the City of Glendale, their own self interests, etc., I don't think anyone really knows right now. If AEG is making money on the Coyotes lease, that's money that likely would have had a good portion of it going to the Coyotes themselves under the prior lease.
Assuming the numbers thrown around this megathread are even half correct, I don't see how the Coyotes lose (what I would consider) reasonable amounts of money every year unless AEG themselves pay the Coyotes to play there. The Coyotes paid $500,000 (again, if I remember correctly) per year to play in the GRA, plus got all the extras included in the previous lease. If AEG just says they can play there for free, that only really saves them $500,000/year, plus they lost all the fun extras like the management fees.
Killion
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Good question and one many here have asked themselves, each other. Backing up a little, there are certain key elements & factors that must be considered contextually, and as neither AEG nor the COG have said much more than "we'd like the Coyotes to remain" without providing any explanations as to just how exactly they'd go about that were left speculating. Guessing. What we do know is that AEG's Mgmnt Contract with the COG includes an Out~Clause, that should the Coyotes leave (the region or State) they too can bail. Rather odd (and onerous) considering how very little was said publicly in AEG's oral presentations to the City, statements made by various AEG Executives, giving the impression that the teams continued tenancy was secondary to their main objective of keeping the lights on as much as possible with concert & event bookings. Little to no talk short of hollow platitudes with respect to the Coyotes. No details, no open talk at all as to just what kind of structure a deal with IceArizona might entail.
Theres no way the Valley can support 3 major indoor arenas of that size in addition to being home to a plethora of smaller indoor & outdoor event venues all vying for the same bookings in many cases - fewer still events & acts even capable of filling a 17,000+ seater. AEG knows it, anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of the industry & market would quickly conclude same. AEG is the worlds largest facility management group of its kind & includes an AEG Live Division which produces shows itself, able to "bundle" venues for any given act or event globally, not just in the US however they havent produced anything of much merit for well over a decade as the concert & event market fell prey to an ever changing demographic and anemic economic conditions. You could count on both hands how many acts these days are even capable of filling an arena and most work off a Guaranteed Performance Fee structure, extorting as much as possible from the facilities management, playing one arena against another against another within any given market & or geographic region. Bidding Wars.
If were to believe IceArizona, imagine a 3rd facility, hard to imagine AEG would hang in there dropping huge money on Guaranteed Performance Fee's for whatever act, barely breaking even, essentially just turning dollars with a profit margin of maybe 2% if their lucky in order to keep the lights on at Gila River Arena. Harder still to imagine that Team Ice Arizona would have the wherewithal to even begin to enter into Bidding Wars with AEG & GRA along with Sarver & Talking Stick Arena in downtown Phoenix should they somehow pull off the miraculous of a new facility closer to the East Valley but still suburban. So Im afraid your question, one that everyones asking just raises more & more & more questions. Could spend all day here going down all those rabbit holes but, accomplishes little. I guess we all have our own pet theories, many shared collectively, in agreement. One has to first get over a few fundamental questions however, as in "does IceArizona really truly own that club & are they calling the shots"?. I personally dont believe they do, havent come close to closing with the NHL & that its the NHL that not only still owns it but will determine its fate, something that many believe has already been decided. The real Wild Card here is AEG. Ultimate NHL insiders. Hard to say what they might, might not do but whatever it is I believe it will be with the direction given by and in full collaboration with the NHL, with Bettmans offices. They, AEG the new Overseers', their relationship with IceArizona one of collusion, further subterfuge, further darkening a glass which was already impossible to see through.
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powerstuck
Nordiques Hopes Lies
To add a potentially essential tidbit to what BB said...
AEG is already an owner of an NHL team and trusty league partner. Just keep that in mind when the whole 20 years saga sinks in.
AEG is already an owner of an NHL team and trusty league partner. Just keep that in mind when the whole 20 years saga sinks in.
Killion
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... and one known for subterfuge, playing dirty... Nashville... Kansas City... then head of AEG as well as Chairman of the NHL Expansion & Relocation Committee Tim Leiweke & the Boots Del Biaggio fiasco...
kihekah19*
Registered User
Not at all. The possibility of a disliked Mayor not returning and an amicable replacement could have the team staying put.
The scenarios are all but endless, life in the valley is great and the prospect of the team staying here has never been better!
Llama19
Registered User
Of your post (and I encourage everyone to read it in its entirety), this is the one that makes the case that there will be no new arena...
NALA +18
One thing that would make sense is if, the city of phoenix accelerated the replacement of Talking Stick Resort Arena by agreeing to build a new arena in the same spot and both the Suns and Coyotes play at Gila River for 3 years while the new arena is completed and then move downtown. AEG manages both arenas and the new arena serves as home for both teams and Gila River serves as the venue for concerts and shows.
Killion
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...
stop making sense aqib.... Sarver would never go for that & he knows perfectly well the Suns are the jewel in the crown. Not about to give up any leverage nor apparently in "partnering~up" with the NHL franchise let alone IceArizona. And why would or should he? Economics of running an NBA franchise are such that he needs to control every possible facet of revenues. Not about to go all munificent/benevolent, share~zee's with anyone.
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
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let alone IceArizona. And why would or should he? Economics of running an NBA franchise are such that he needs to control every possible facet of revenues. Not about to go all munificent/benevolent, share~zee's with anyone.
Certainly. Sarver operates TSRA now. Why would he want to give that up?
As for his crown jewel??? Most Suns fans would tell you it's been nothing but tarnished since he bought it.
As for the area not capable supporting three major venues..... you are correct. But one of the current two is on it's spiraling decline. If a third one gets built before that old one can get replaced...... well?????? That's a whole new enchilada.... now ain't it??
Killion
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Certainly. Sarver operates TSRA now. Why would he want to give that up?
As for his crown jewel??? Most Suns fans would tell you it's been nothing but tarnished since he bought it.
As for the area not capable supporting three major venues..... you are correct. But one of the current two is on it's spiraling decline. If a third one gets built before that old one can get replaced...... well?????? That's a whole new enchilada.... now ain't it??
... ya, I get that, not the most beloved owner which is putting it mildly but he seems enamored with the role so not really going anywhere...
and you know TL?... they say God lives inside of all of us.... sure hope he likes enchiladas cuz thats whats he gettin for dinner tonight.
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
... ya, I get that, not the most beloved owner which is putting it mildly but he seems enamored with the role so not really going anywhere...
and you know TL?... they say God lives inside of all of us.... sure hope he likes enchiladas cuz thats whats he gettin for dinner tonight.
Filiberto's baby...... feed an army for five bucks!! Almost like breaking bread at the water's edge.
Killion
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Filiberto's baby...... feed an army for five bucks!! Almost like breaking bread at the water's edge.
...
... anyhoo... so in this imaginary world that a new building to house the Coyotes somehow mystically~magically appears within the next 6-12mnths.... you honestly believe that Sarver will fall prostrate on his knee's & sign up, sign-in and partner-up with the IceArizona boys? Bringing with in addition to the Suns the Merc's & Rattlers huh? Will forego naming rights etc, just "ride~along" absent concessions, parking, sponsorships, facility management etc etc etc?... Is that what your suggesting TL?... That he & the 3 teams would be so stunned as to be paying tenants taking a back-seat to the least attractive, the least experienced & threadbare Coyotes & IceArizona?... That is like an NHL/Tony LeBlanc wet dream and I can assure you; not happening. You will have 3 competitive facilities of the app same size in a market that can realistically only support 1.5. One, and, a, half... The Hell that will be unleashed, playing havoc with budgets, profit & loss with a 3 almost identical facility situation in the Valley of the Sun.... not good.
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
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Re: Sarver. Not necessarily... but it'll put Phoenix in a real bind for sure.
I'm just implying that certain dynamics in play now are going to get turned sideways and this-a-ways and that-a-ways and everything else.
I am also still sticking to a pending ASU/Coyotes shared facility at Karsten. Nothing has happened to change that, IMO. But we'll see.
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Killion
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Several simple question's, and I come from a long line of academics & understand the processes though I myself not an "academic" per se'. Daddy (long since deceased) was President, Department Head at a major University for years, decades, and I have friends & relatives worldwide in the same sector... so.... why would ASU want to get into bed with IceArizona TL? Why do they need a 17K+ facility? Why would they need an external/outsourced manager for such a facility (even if they could fill it with Div 1 BB & Hockey which they couldnt) and at what cost ? Why would they give 3rd party access to their donors & beneficiaries? To a crew thats already faired abysmally in giving free-access to their political & business contacts at Local & State levels? Why would they open themselves to this?
TheLegend
Hardly Deactivated
It isn't about the need as much as it's about what they are willing to do.
Sharing a facility with a professional sports franchise is nothing new to them. The Cardinals spent 20 years at Sun Devil Stadium so this would not be their first rodeo.
It's been no secret either that ASU wants to elevate their stature in basketball and be a player in hosting tournament events. Can't do that with the 11k arena they have now. 15k wouldn't even hack it either. But with Ice Arizona on board, you begin to add some clout. Despite what anyone here thinks of them.
Plus..... I'm getting the impression that there's more than just an arena involved with this. LeBlanc did refer to this as a complex real estate deal. Not just an arena. And I think that's one of the reasons why this is taking the time it is.
Llama19
Registered User
A winning culture next step for Arizona Coyotes
To quote:
"And perhaps the most significant change from this rebranding is the Coyotes’ genuine belief that they can be a winning team, a newfound swagger that will make its debut when they open their 20th season in the Valley next Saturday at Gila River Arena against the Flyers.
“There’s a sense and feeling amongst the players that they look around and say, ‘We’ve got the skill. We’ve got the talent. We’ve got that compete and heaviness to our game that we can go in any building any night and we can compete and we can win,’ †General Manager John Chayka said. “That’s the expectation for this season.â€"
Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...g-culture-next-step-arizona-coyotes/91800774/
To quote:
"And perhaps the most significant change from this rebranding is the Coyotes’ genuine belief that they can be a winning team, a newfound swagger that will make its debut when they open their 20th season in the Valley next Saturday at Gila River Arena against the Flyers.
“There’s a sense and feeling amongst the players that they look around and say, ‘We’ve got the skill. We’ve got the talent. We’ve got that compete and heaviness to our game that we can go in any building any night and we can compete and we can win,’ †General Manager John Chayka said. “That’s the expectation for this season.â€"
Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...g-culture-next-step-arizona-coyotes/91800774/
Killion
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I can understand & appreciate why you might like to "think" that particular theories plausible however I have a hard time getting past ASU's Board of Regents' wanting to do business with Anthony LeBlanc & Ice Arizona TL.... Normally Im a glass half-full type of guy and do look (sometimes to a fault) for the upside, ever optimistic. But here, in this case, not even I, always sunny & positive can see beyond the fault lines, lack of integrity... and no money. How does that get cured?... Why does it appear to me that such a strategy reeks of Train Riding on the tails of a much respected, venerated & important icon in ASU? That theres a confabulation stemming from IA's desperation in attempting to enjoin with ASU (who obviously do need an arena) & hi-jack their very own process while gaining access to monied beneficiaries of that rather venerable & highly respected institution? ... In short... I see a criminal mind at work here plain & simple. They desperately need to ride on the train of the cape of an establishment institution and this is not a new grift, a new con or tale. Its as old as the hills. I see exactly what their trying do. Hail Mary.
Killion
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LeBlanc would be caught in a New York minute...
Well, all jokes aside Im not hearing or reading any refutations from ASU. So whats the deal with that? Silence infers & suggests compliance.Agreement. An accord. Youd think that with their good name being bandied about that if there wasnt any fire under all the smoke theyd step up & turn on the extinguishers no? Yet not a peep. So what gives? Are they that desperate for cash to build a new arena that theyd allow themselves to be corrupted by private interests? By interests only interested in jumping on their train & riding it like a cheap Mule to the state legislature while gaining full access to the hundreds of millions in bursary & development funds from the state & alumni as well as the corporate sector in Arizona? Better yet... they enjoin a local Tribe. Even if it is just a matter of Leasing land from a single family entity with the right kind of DNA. Dont need Band Approval. But the appearance of it?... thats gold Jerry.
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