Value of: Pesce to NYR

[WesMcCauley]

What would Canes want in return? Whats his value? NYR wants/needs a young RH defensemen. Trouba is out on the market but he will cost alot, Pesce is a very good player but might not have the same potential as Trouba but will be a very good player.

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[DaveG]

You won't like the price. We need 2 things right now: Another scoring threat in our top 6 and a legit goalie. So it's basically Hayes or Kreider since there's no chance in hell that you guys would move Lundqvist and Raanta's nowhere near proven enough. And I doubt Pesce would get it done for Hayes or Kreider.

 

[hamzarocks]

You won't like the price. We need 2 things right now: Another scoring threat in our top 6 and a legit goalie. So it's basically Hayes or Kreider since there's no chance in hell that you guys would move Lundqvist and Raanta's nowhere near proven enough. And I doubt Pesce would get it done for Hayes or Kreider.

Ill offer you JVR for pesce and a 2nd.

 

[Kanneda]

He's the perfect fit for us, young, proven, right handed, expansion exempt, from NY...
However, he's not cheap and I prefer us going for a higher upside D, with higher production and offensive skills. A Trouba, Vatanen, etc...If we are going to lose Miller or Hayes let's make a big offer and go for one of those guys.

 

[WesMcCauley]

You won't like the price. We need 2 things right now: Another scoring threat in our top 6 and a legit goalie. So it's basically Hayes or Kreider since there's no chance in hell that you guys would move Lundqvist and Raanta's nowhere near proven enough. And I doubt Pesce would get it done for Hayes or Kreider.

Kreider is a nonstarter, he has been elite(yes elite) so far this season. 9 points in 6 games and looks better and more complete than ever. I kind of knew Hayes/MIller would be the asking price. Kreider holds a good amount more value than them imo. Miller has been unreal so far(10p in 10games), Hayes(7p in 10 games) been great aswell! If we cant land Trouba i would definetly be interested in making a deal for Pesce. Would like to see more of Hayes and Miller though, see if they actually have taken the next step this season etc. If they keep playing like this it would be hard to trade them!

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Hainsey – Faulk
Hanifin – Slavin
Dahlbeck – Murphy
Nakladal

Not that I think the above configuration would be horrible, but I doubt the Canes would want to go the rest of the season with that group. I don’t think Pesce’s available at the moment, barring an offer that’s too good to pass up on.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Hainsey – Faulk
Hanifin – Slavin
Dahlbeck – Murphy
Nakladal

Not that I think the above configuration would be horrible, but I doubt the Canes would want to go the rest of the season with that group. I don’t think Pesce’s available at the moment, barring an offer that’s too good to pass up on.

Ye not surprising, i just like him as a player and think he would be a solid option if we cant get a guy like Trouba.

 

[RodTheBawd]

In before the bern...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ill offer you JVR for pesce and a 2nd.

I don't see the Canes giving up a cost controlled, expansion exempt 21 YO 2nd pairing RHD for a guy that will be a UFA in less than 2 years. Don't get me wrong, JVR is currently a better, more proven player than Pesce, but the Canes aren't likely to be a playoff team this year (particularly with these 2 goalies). Being only signed for this season and next isn't the right fit for Carolina IMO.

I see JVR's best value being when he goes to a contender type team either at a deadline or next off season.

 

[bernmeister]

In before the bern...

And I shall not disappoint.

Stepan reduced 6.5 to 4 WHICH IS HUGE
two Ranger 3rds
Raanta (for now) or Halverson (for the near future)

for
Pesce
Murphy
return of Ranger 2nd 2017
add Canes 2nd 2017
+ acceptable cap dumps, no NMCs
Hainsey, I think is an LD, and you have a C, McClement, 2 expiring, a total of 4m cap betw. them
so it roughly balances out

========

Would be even more interested in either an alternative, or another side deal:
Zibenijad, Pirri + Ranger 1st
for
Hanifin, Murphy + the two 2nds

as much as I'd hate to disconnect Kreider from the pivot that has got him going, I'd consider other ways to repair that and finally have a 1RD anchor after McD goes, = Hanifin, Skjei, Graves.

Fair for Carolina, too. swap of a 5OA for --- what was Hani, 5th, 5th?
stud C who can dig on RW, great shot for potential top 5 or so D league wide. Pirri is cheap scorer you get dibs on extending. Betw. 2 of them, you betw. 50 - 60 goals.

----------

I don't think you let go both ELCs even though you have Slavin + Faulk and depth.

If you did, I'd do:

Zibenijad, Pirri, Stepan reduced 6.5 to 5, Klein + Ranger 1st

for

Hanifin + Pesce
return of Ranger 2nd 2017
+ acceptable cap dumps, no NMCs
presumably again Hainsey + McClement

somethin like dat!

 

[WesMcCauley]

And I shall not disappoint.

Stepan reduced 6.5 to 4 WHICH IS HUGE
two Ranger 3rds
Raanta (for now) or Halverson (for the near future)

for
Pesce
Murphy
return of Ranger 2nd 2017
add Canes 2nd 2017
+ acceptable cap dumps, no NMCs
Hainsey, I think is an LD, and you have a C, McClement, 2 expiring, a total of 4m cap betw. them
so it roughly balances out

========

Would be even more interested in either an alternative, or another side deal:
Zibenijad, Pirri + Ranger 1st
for
Hanifin, Murphy + the two 2nds

as much as I'd hate to disconnect Kreider from the pivot that has got him going, I'd consider other ways to repair that and finally have a 1RD anchor after McD goes, = Hanifin, Skjei, Graves.

Fair for Carolina, too. swap of a 5OA for --- what was Hani, 5th, 5th?
stud C who can dig on RW, great shot for potential top 5 or so D league wide. Pirri is cheap scorer you get dibs on extending. Betw. 2 of them, you betw. 50 - 60 goals.

----------

I don't think you let go both ELCs even though you have Slavin + Faulk and depth.

If you did, I'd do:

Zibenijad, Pirri, Stepan reduced 6.5 to 5, Klein + Ranger 1st

for

Hanifin + Pesce
return of Ranger 2nd 2017
+ acceptable cap dumps, no NMCs
presumably again Hainsey + McClement

somethin like dat!

This is so dumb....

The weirdest thing is how you think NYR would retain money if Stepan ever is traded. Would never happen. That last proposal is just incredible horrible for NYR. Talk about overpaying... Two 1B centers, one 20+ goalscorer, one top 4D on a great contract and a 1st round pick for Hanifin, Pesce and 2nd.... Ridicolous

 

[hamzarocks]

I don't see the Canes giving up a cost controlled, expansion exempt 21 YO 2nd pairing RHD for a guy that will be a UFA in less than 2 years. Don't get me wrong, JVR is currently a better, more proven player than Pesce, but the Canes aren't likely to be a playoff team this year (particularly with these 2 goalies). Being only signed for this season and next isn't the right fit for Carolina IMO.

I see JVR's best value being when he goes to a contender type team either at a deadline or next off season.

welp, guess leafs will have to continue to rebuild and let nielsen and dermott develop. Like pesce as a player and the canes are smart to keep him. He could become a really good player in the future.

 

[Savant]

Hainsey – Faulk
Hanifin – Slavin
Dahlbeck – Murphy
Nakladal

Not that I think the above configuration would be horrible, but I doubt the Canes would want to go the rest of the season with that group. I don’t think Pesce’s available at the moment, barring an offer that’s too good to pass up on.

Would Slavin or Murphy be available? For what?

 

[Mikos87]

What do you guys want for Murphy?

 

[slg1963]

What would Canes want in return? Whats his value? NYR wants/needs a young RH defensemen. Trouba is out on the market but he will cost alot, Pesce is a very good player but might not have the same potential as Trouba but will be a very good player.

Who is this Pesce person , is he any good ,how old is he and would we have to protect him in the expansion.

 

[DaveG]

Who is this Pesce person , is he any good ,how old is he and would we have to protect him in the expansion.

Good and consistent, 21, no.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Would Slavin or Murphy be available? For what?

I can’t see Slavin being available, again, barring an offer that’s too good to pass up on. That offer would have to be more significant than one needed to land Pesce. Slavin is on his way to becoming a high-end, complementary #2 defenseman, imo.

The return for Murphy would most likely be an insignificant pick or prospect. I’m just not sure the Canes would move him this season. He’s needed at the moment as neither Dahlbeck nor Nakladal were impressive in his absence in the early season. More importantly, the Canes don’t have a qualifying 40/70 defenseman for the expansion draft outside of Faulk, who obviously isn’t going to be exposed. Murphy is closing in on 70 GP.

The Rangers and Canes don't seem like great trading partners at the moment.

 

[Shootertooter]

And I shall not disappoint.

Stepan reduced 6.5 to 4 WHICH IS HUGE
two Ranger 3rds
Raanta (for now) or Halverson (for the near future)

for
Pesce
Murphy
return of Ranger 2nd 2017
add Canes 2nd 2017
+ acceptable cap dumps, no NMCs
Hainsey, I think is an LD, and you have a C, McClement, 2 expiring, a total of 4m cap betw. them
so it roughly balances out

========

Would be even more interested in either an alternative, or another side deal:
Zibenijad, Pirri + Ranger 1st
for
Hanifin, Murphy + the two 2nds

as much as I'd hate to disconnect Kreider from the pivot that has got him going, I'd consider other ways to repair that and finally have a 1RD anchor after McD goes, = Hanifin, Skjei, Graves.

Fair for Carolina, too. swap of a 5OA for --- what was Hani, 5th, 5th?
stud C who can dig on RW, great shot for potential top 5 or so D league wide. Pirri is cheap scorer you get dibs on extending. Betw. 2 of them, you betw. 50 - 60 goals.

----------

I don't think you let go both ELCs even though you have Slavin + Faulk and depth.

If you did, I'd do:

Zibenijad, Pirri, Stepan reduced 6.5 to 5, Klein + Ranger 1st

for

Hanifin + Pesce
return of Ranger 2nd 2017
+ acceptable cap dumps, no NMCs
presumably again Hainsey + McClement

somethin like dat!

How about a proposal that does not include 20 different players and picks? The Rangers are cruising right now, why upset the balance of the team and move 4 roster players?

how about something like this to start:

Stepan for Pesce+? Maybe a pick and a offsetting contract for cap.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I can’t see Slavin being available, again, barring an offer that’s too good to pass up on. That offer would have to be more significant than one needed to land Pesce. Slavin is on his way to becoming a high-end, complementary #2 defenseman, imo.

The return for Murphy would most likely be an insignificant pick or prospect. I’m just not sure the Canes would move him this season. He’s needed at the moment as neither Dahlbeck nor Nakladal were impressive in his absence in the early season. More importantly, the Canes don’t have a qualifying 40/70 defenseman for the expansion draft outside of Faulk, who obviously isn’t going to be exposed. Murphy is closing in on 70 GP.

The Rangers and Canes don't seem like great trading partners at the moment.

Dahlbeck is eligible for the expansion draft. Played almost a full season last year. Probably part of the reason behind claiming him.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I forgot about that possibility. They’ve yet to sign him to the extension he would need to qualify for 40/70, though.

 

[WesMcCauley]

How about a proposal that does not include 20 different players and picks? The Rangers are cruising right now, why upset the balance of the team and move 4 roster players?

how about something like this to start:

Stepan for Pesce+? Maybe a pick and a offsetting contract for cap.

Stepan isnt going anywhere. If he ever was traded, it would be for a better defensemen than Pesce.

 

[bernmeister]

This is so dumb....

The weirdest thing is how you think NYR would retain money if Stepan ever is traded. Would never happen. That last proposal is just incredible horrible for NYR. Talk about overpaying... Two 1B centers, one 20+ goalscorer, one top 4D on a great contract and a 1st round pick for Hanifin, Pesce and 2nd.... Ridicolous

Stepan isnt going anywhere. If he ever was traded, it would be for a better defensemen than Pesce.

You grossly underestimate the value of these D, that they are cost controlled for another 6 years, and are ELC do not need to be protected during expansion

Instead of saying it is dumb, perhaps you will reconsider and have your extreme partisanship in this instance bend, buckle and break to the facts.

It is fair to debate player values, which to a large extent is subjective, not objective.
But it is not fair to both put Stepan on a pedestal, while simultaneously ignoring the above, not to mention the talent levels here --- Hanifin is like top 5OA, what would you expect to pay? Chopped liver?

....

How about a proposal that does not include 20 different players and picks?

The closest is Zib for Hani, top 5ish OA for both.
righty C who can do the RW, for a LD, who can go to other side, check
but then zib is more $$ and not ELC 6 years cost controlled, expansion exempt
that is huge, you have to add
if you are not adding more premium assets, eg Kreider, McD, then you need more quantity of solid good assets
that is mathematical, my friend

The Rangers are cruising right now, why upset the balance of the team and move 4 roster players?

that is a fair ?
answer, to consolidate an area of strength to address need/long term need

truth be told, if the martians kidnapped that many guys off our roster, yeah, it would hurt, our depth but then if you add the high quality of what that does to the blueline, not just immediately but as to long term build, it is fine

We have enough depth and Nieves knocking on the door assuming no C returned
Hani w/Skjei and Graves, liberates McD to trade
lots of possibilities
some include a possible deal to replace Zib w/Sam Reinhart

so we CAN do something like this

how about something like this to start:
Stepan for Pesce+? Maybe a pick and a offsetting contract for cap.

who does not want to pay less?
but these are more = than you think, and while Canes have cap space, doesn't mean they want to splurge it on Step. Have to eat part of his #, = savings for other upcoming extensions, while ELC helps you with your salary base

do not follow Meg's misconception on overvaluing Stepan
he is like 20th best C in the league, no more. no less
that's real value, but does not command a crazy premium, just a modest premium. or even a nominal overpayment

Who is this Pesce person , is he any good ,how old is he and would we have to protect him in the expansion.

Good and consistent, 21, no.

like I said^

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Do not let it be said bernmeister does not deliver!

 

[bernmeister]

Do not let it be said bernmeister does not deliver!

thanks for noticing!

 

[Shootertooter]

How about we stick to moving as few pieces as possible, since that is realistically how most trades are worked out.

I'd prefer to keep Zib over Step for that NMC that kicks in to Steps contract after this season as well as Zib being an RFA and he is 3 years younger.

I don't think Hanafin is a realistic target since he is likely the Canes franchise young D man. Love to have him but the reality of that is likely nil.

Why the love for Pesce? His career stats are underwhelming. Is he a top 4 guy?