Penticton and Chilliwack to the WHL

[DoyleG]

Agree on the BCHL schadenfreude thing... they couldn't have picked a shittier time to do what they did.

Except that one of the biggest boosters of the BCHL going indy is getting into the WHL.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Except that one of the biggest boosters of the BCHL going indy is getting into the WHL.

So they made a big mess and left it for the others to clean up as they bugger off to the dub? Yikes.

 

[TheCrease]

I think the BCHL will be fine. Penticton and Chilliwack are bigger than the BCHL needs to be and the CHL is now the top dog in juniors.

The BCHL has been pretty clear about their goals. The want to compete with the USHL, and recruit from all over North America. They will still be that, and will also get the disgruntled WHL guys that need playing time.

 

[Mototik]

I think the BCHL will be fine. Penticton and Chilliwack are bigger than the BCHL needs to be and the CHL is now the top dog in juniors.

The BCHL has been pretty clear about their goals. The want to compete with the USHL, and recruit from all over North America. They will still be that, and will also get the disgruntled WHL guys that need playing time.

The BCHL wants to compete with the USHL but now they have to compete with the CHL as well. The one benefit the BCHL does have is not having a draft.

However, it will be interesting to see how the future CHL drafts go now that the threat of going NCAA isn't as strong anymore.

 

[hockeykid87]

Curious to hear more about this. I'm really not sure how much "bigger" the CHL can grow. There aren't many more cities with facilities capable of hosting CHL teams I don't think.

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

Central Division

Lethbridge Hurricanes
Edmonton Oil Kings
Calgary Hitmen
Okotoks Oilers
Sherwood Park Crusaders
Medicine Hat Tigers
Red Deer Rebels
Cranbrook Bucks

East Division

Brandon Wheat Kings
Swift Current Broncos
Prince Albert Raiders
Saskatoon Blades
Moose Jaw Warriors
Regina Pats
Estevan Bruins


BC Division

Kamloops Blazers
Kelowna Rockets
Vancouver Giants
Prince George Cougars
Victoria Royals
Penticton Vees
Chilliwack Chiefs
Nanaimo Clippers


US Division

Portland Winterhawks
Everett Silvertips
Spokane Chiefs
Wenatchee Wild
Seattle Thunderbirds
Tri-City Americans

 

[hockeykid87]

Sherwood Park and Okotoks don't have big enough arenas for the WHL. You're not going to get anything smaller than Swift Current. Prince Albert is building their new rink now, and it's going to be 4,500 capacity.

Nanaimo would need a totally new building to get a WHL team. They tried that in 2017 with a public vote and it was a resounding, 80% no. As much as the WHL would love to have a team there, and I'm sure the Royals would too, I don't think that's ever happening.

Estevan has a nice enough rink, but do they have the fan and sponsor support for a WHL team? HockeyDB says they're averaging 975 fans a game this season. You would think that would go up for significantly better hockey, but to be even close to sustainable you'd have to nearly triple it.

I really think Penticton and Chilliwack might be the only two cities in Western Canada that could support a WHL team in the near future.

 

[MeHateHe]

Nanaimo would need a totally new building to get a WHL team. They tried that in 2017 with a public vote and it was a resounding, 80% no. As much as the WHL would love to have a team there, and I'm sure the Royals would too, I don't think that's ever happening.

The best chance for Nanaimo is if the league bends now (seeing this as chance to drive a knife into the BCHL's heart once and for all) and allows them to come in and get established, while they bring forward a plan to get private capital to build a facility more in keeping with the league's needs. So, sort of like what happened in WInnipeg. It's risky - look how Winnipeg turned out - but unlike Winnipeg, there is a real need for a multi-purpose events centre of that size in the mid-Island. It's a long shot, but I could see an argument for it (I say go for it, because it's not my money!)

As for the rest of that post: hard pass. Cranbrook? Not again. If you're going to the Kootenays, it would make more sense to go to Trail, because you could market it to the entire west Kootenay region, but it's still a terrible bet. Sherwood Park and Okotoks? Sherwood Park drew 451 for a recent game and neither of those rinks are big enough.

A 29 team WHL? At some point it collapses under its own weight.

 

[tank44]

My parents live in Nanaimo and wanted the arena but voted NO because of some other side elements to the vote. In the end I think the cost was "only $80M" which is much more now.

WHL could get to be big enough and split to a Western WHL (MB, SK, AB) and Pacific PHL (BC, US) with 12-16 teams each. The WHL could return to Winnipeg, and expand to FortMac, GrandPrairie, Llyodminster and even perhaps to Northern Ontario Thunder Bay & Kenora. The PHL could expand after Penticton & Chilliwack to Nanaimo, Cranbrook, Trail, city of Vancouver BC, Vancouver WA, Eugene OR, Boise ID, Missoula MT, Couer DAlene ID, Yakima WA, Bellingham WA.

 

[hockeykid87]

My parents live in Nanaimo and wanted the arena but voted NO because of some other side elements to the vote. In the end I think the cost was "only $80M" which is much more now.

WHL could get to be big enough and split to a Western WHL (MB, SK, AB) and Pacific PHL (BC, US) with 12-16 teams each. The WHL could return to Winnipeg, and expand to FortMac, GrandPrairie, Llyodminster and even perhaps to Northern Ontario Thunder Bay & Kenora. The PHL could expand after Penticton & Chilliwack to Nanaimo, Cranbrook, Trail, city of Vancouver BC, Vancouver WA, Eugene OR, Boise ID, Missoula MT, Couer DAlene ID, Yakima WA, Bellingham WA.

Are you insane haha.

 

[MeHateHe]

Are you insane haha.

Well, the list of possible franchise locations is pretty out there, but given that the NHL has been in discussions with the CHL about what the junior hockey landscape looks like, it's not inconceivable that the league adds a few teams and then splits. It's well-established that the league would prefer a second team on Vancouver Island and a second team in Manitoba makes eminent sense (Winnipeg 3.0? if they can get their act together on a rink), so that takes the league up to 26. Leagues of that size become pretty unwieldly, especially when it comes to playoffs, so it's not completely out of the realm of possible.

 

[Mototik]

Yeah... I think people need to pump the brakes a bit on WHL expansion because I think the league is pretty much at its limit.

I'll grant Penticton and Chilliwack because those wheels appear to already be in motion and they do seem like viable markets but I'll take a bold stance and say that none of the existing BCHL, AJ, SJ and MJ markets are capable of moving up to the major junior level without, at the very minimum, a massive financial influx and/or new arenas, and that would be a very tall order. Then any other markets that don't currently have any hockey (like that PHL idea a few posts above...), do they have any interest in junior hockey and the facilities for it? Plus, you would also have to consider the travel because there's no way a split league thing happens.

On top of that, you also have to consider, even with the perceived bigger pool of players who want to go NCAA, are there even enough quality junior hockey players to fill out a bunch of new teams? I'm not too sure about that.

I don't think the WHL would turn down a meeting if some rich people want to lose a bunch of money in starting a new team from the ground up, including building an arena in most cases, but I just don't see there being many cases coming.

 

[MeHateHe]

Yeah... I think people need to pump the brakes a bit on WHL expansion because I think the league is pretty much at its limit.

I'll grant Penticton and Chilliwack because those wheels appear to already be in motion and they do seem like viable markets but I'll take a bold stance and say that none of the existing BCHL, AJ, SJ and MJ markets are capable of moving up to the major junior level without, at the very minimum, a massive financial influx and/or new arenas, and that would be a very tall order. Then any other markets that don't currently have any hockey (like that PHL idea a few posts above...), do they have any interest in junior hockey and the facilities for it? Plus, you would also have to consider the travel because there's no way a split league thing happens.

On top of that, you also have to consider, even with the perceived bigger pool of players who want to go NCAA, are there even enough quality junior hockey players to fill out a bunch of new teams? I'm not too sure about that.

I don't think the WHL would turn down a meeting if some rich people want to lose a bunch of money in starting a new team from the ground up, including building an arena in most cases, but I just don't see there being many cases coming.

Agreed on all of this. I think 24 is too many. However, I suspect the league is meeting the moment a bit, seeing a chance to rip out a couple of very successful BCHL franchises and plant its flag firmly in BC. An 8-team BC division is not ideal, but if they're doing that, I don't see the downside to a 9-team division by adding Nanaimo (caveats above) to support Victoria. I suppose it's possible they add either Vancouver or Chilliwack to the US division to keep the western conference even, but cross-border travel is an additional challenge and would be a problem from the standpoint of competitive fairness, IMO.

 

[wetcoast]

So... I think we're going to be seeing a lot of this. But what makes this a tad bit more interesting is I wonder what it'll mean for Junior A.

What I think is going to happen, is the WHL will be divided into two or three leagues.

I think this could happen as well with Chillwack and Nanamio being on the expansion radar.

 

[wetcoast]

Kelowna Rockets
Kamloops Blazers
Vancouver Giants
Victoria Royals
Prince George Cougars
Penticton Vees
Chilliwack Chiefs

Add Nanamio in there for the future.