Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

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eXile3

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Carter is going to score around 40 points on a 3rd line for 3 million a year. It’s not a bad contract in a vacuum.

It’s just a bad player mix. We already have a bunch of older, bad defensively, complacent players.
 

Gurglesons

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Never heard of that but that would make a ton of sense. 10-team list wouldn't be very helpful after 6 years with how the script flips in this league.

If that's not the case though, here are the 10 worst teams in P% when it was signed:
Islanders, Oilers, Rangers, Blackhawks, Canucks, Red Wings, Canadiens, Coyotes, Senators, Sabres

Just giving some ideas who might be on it. Maybe sub out a few for hated divisional foes or terrible places to live.

I don't think that players build their trade lists based on bad teams, rather teams they don't want to go to.

I imagine Dumoulin's trade list is something like all of Canada, Buffalo, and then a couple contenders.
 
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Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
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Ironically his was the deal most people disliked the most. Ive really soured on the Rust contract and Carters has aged like fine milk. I think the Carter deal might be the worst contract on the team, an over 35 deal and hes been baaaaad, Letang you could at least move on name. I dont think GMs around the league have realized how brain dead he is.

vs


Not to call you out. But isn't it a tad bit funny that your post received a ton of approval and mine died on the vine. I don't offer my opinion much anymore; I've grown to realize that people don't want to hear the truth, they find comfort in the echo chamber.
 

Gurglesons

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vs


Not to call you out. But isn't it a tad bit funny that your post received a ton of approval and mine died on the vine. I don't offer my opinion much anymore; I've grown to realize that people don't want to hear the truth, they find comfort in the echo chamber.

While we are bragging, every thing I said is 100% smart in that thread.

Guess we both get to wear glasses and call everyone else dorks Kev.
 
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AuroraBorealis

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Not to call you out. But isn't it a tad bit funny that your post received a ton of approval and mine died on the vine. I don't offer my opinion much anymore; I've grown to realize that people don't want to hear the truth, they find comfort in the echo chamber.
Pessimism isn't truth by default. Many pessimistic opinions have been already proven false this year on this board.
I'd say the "echo chamber" here is too many of those types of posts, actually. We need more people who are capable of separating their emotions from their analysis, so they can say smart things more often.

For example the idea that past playoff losses somehow guarantees poor results this playoffs is incredibly irrational.
 
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LOGiK

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Pessimism isn't truth by default. Many pessimistic opinions have been proven false this year already on this board.
I'd say the "echo chamber" here is too many of those types of posts, actually. We need more people who are capable of separating their emotions from their analysis, so they can say smart things more often.

For example the idea that past playoff losses somehow guarantees poor results this playoffs is incredibly irrational.
Bummer for hair guy and ragged muffin
 

HandshakeLine

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For example the idea that past playoff losses somehow dictates outcomes this season is straight up stupid.
Past practice does not prove future performance, necessarily. But if we're talking about trends over the last several seasons, the only thing this team has sort of changed is its bluleline, Rackell, and some of the bottom 6 supporting cast. That seems like a lot at first glance, but when the same problems keep popping up even with the shakeups, I don't get why there shouldn't be concern?

To me, the problems with this team are part roster composition and part usage. Either one of those can be fixed rather easily, but if you fix one without fixing the other, you still end up with problems. :laugh:

I dunno. I'd love this team to go on an absolute Cinderella run to close out the era. It would be amazing to watch and be a part of and it would solidify this team as Something Special, like the storied dynasty teams. But it's not going to get there by pretending problems don't exist. :dunno:
 

AuroraBorealis

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Past practice does not prove future performance, necessarily. But if we're talking about trends over the last several seasons, the only thing this team has sort of changed is its bluleline, Rackell, and some of the bottom 6 supporting cast. That seems like a lot at first glance, but when the same problems keep popping up even with the shakeups, I don't get why there shouldn't be concern?

To me, the problems with this team are part roster composition and part usage. Either one of those can be fixed rather easily, but if you fix one without fixing the other, you still end up with problems. :laugh:

I dunno. I'd love this team to go on an absolute Cinderella run to close out the era. It would be amazing to watch and be a part of and it would solidify this team as Something Special, like the storied dynasty teams. But it's not going to get there by pretending problems don't exist. :dunno:
It's kind of hard for me to pinpoint personnel stability as a core problem when in 2021 we score 14 in 6 games and then in 2022 we score 29 in 7 games, both against similarly stingy opponents.
One year L1 gets shutdown and then the next year it's the most explosive line of the 16 teams in R1.

The best way to assess trends is to outline the biggest reasons we lost the last 5 rounds and find commonalities. Goaltending availability dictated two of those outcomes to a large degree IMO. That's just luck and largely uncontrollable. You can have a proper 3rd goalie in waiting, but you'll be lucky if he's good enough to save you.
Another series was total lack of motivation in the bubble for the players, wanting to go home to families instead of isolating in hotels. We can look at the X's and O's of why goals against happened, but the reality is that there was a lack of focus and desire.
2019 we faced a far more organized, superior team that played a tailor-made system for crushing us. Still, it was a humiliating gutless effort that's inexcusable.
2018 was a case of exhaustion vs a hungrier team. We got owned in the neutral zone and couldn't come into the Caps zone with control + speed. Trotz just figured out a strategy to counter Sullivan.

One common thing across these 5 years is that we haven't gotten a strong goalie performance. When you lose in 2022 by one goal and game 5 in 2021 by 1 goal off a Jarry giveaway, this cannot be ignored. Maybe the 2nd line hasn't done enough too often as well.
Have there been any common threads with our bottom sixes or D-pairings? I'd need to research them all properly to answer that.
What about special teams? Same thing. Our PP percentage was pretty good the last 2 playoffs, even if the 2nd unit was the reason.

Meh, I believe in looking at this year as a separate entity. As things stand we'll have 7 players that weren't present during 2022 when April comes around. We don't know what the health situation will be for us and our opponents, and don't know how much that will impact results.
It's important to remember that our opponents aren't perfectly rounded teams either. Every team has flaws. All that matters is if those flaws outweigh the flaws of your opponent and make you lose.
 

Gurglesons

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It's kind of hard for me to pinpoint personnel stability as a core problem when in 2021 we score 14 in 6 games and then in 2022 we score 29 in 7 games, both against similarly stingy opponents.
One year L1 gets shutdown and then the next year it's the most explosive line of the 16 teams in R1.

The best way to assess trends is to outline the biggest reasons we lost the last 5 rounds and find commonalities. Goaltending availability dictated two of those outcomes to a large degree IMO. That's just luck and largely uncontrollable. You can have a proper 3rd goalie in waiting, but you'll be lucky if he's good enough to save you.
Another series was total lack of motivation in the bubble for the players, wanting to go home to families instead of isolating in hotels. We can look at the X's and O's of why goals against happened, but the reality is that there was a lack of focus and desire.
2019 we faced a far more organized, superior team that played a tailor-made system for crushing us. Still, it was a humiliating gutless effort that's inexcusable.
2018 was a case of exhaustion vs a hungrier team. We got owned in the neutral zone and couldn't come into the Caps zone with control + speed. Trotz just figured out a strategy to counter Sullivan.

One common thing across these 5 years is that we haven't gotten a strong goalie performance. When you lose in 2022 by one goal and game 5 in 2021 by 1 goal off a Jarry giveaway, this cannot be ignored. Maybe the 2nd line hasn't done enough too often as well.
Have there been any common threads with our bottom sixes or D-pairings? I'd need to research them all properly to answer that.
What about special teams? Same thing. Our PP percentage was pretty good the last 2 playoffs, even if the 2nd unit was the reason.

Meh, I believe in looking at this year as a separate entity. As things stand we'll have 7 players that weren't present during 2022 when April comes around. We don't know what the health situation will be for us and our opponents, and don't know how much that will impact results.
It's important to remember that our opponents aren't perfectly rounded teams either. Every team has flaws. All that matters is if those flaws outweigh the flaws of your opponent and make you lose.

I've think it's fair to say the Penguins have been awful at holding a lead or playing defensively after taking the lead in every playoff series since Washington in 2018.
 
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AuroraBorealis

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I've think it's fair to say the Penguins have been awful at holding a lead or playing defensively after taking the lead in every playoff series since Washington in 2018.
Yeah that's pretty fair. They are extremely vulnerable right after scoring.
This applies to this year as well.

I'm not sure what can be done about it though. Personnel changes aren't the answer. It's a mindset and/or poor coaching.
 

Gurglesons

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Yeah that's pretty fair. They are extremely vulnerable right after scoring.
This applies to this year as well.

I'm not sure what can be done about it though. Personnel changes aren't the answer. It's a mindset and/or poor coaching.

We've changed up personnel so much. It's obvious it needs to be coaching next.

And with a coaching change you likely see a change in personnel due to someone holding players accountable based on they play rather than what they did for the coach previously.
 

Gurglesons

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So what changed between 2017 Sullivan and 2018 then?

Sullivan played his guys in 2016 and 2017. His guys left or got promoted and he was forced to play players like Simon and Sprong he didn't have in the AHL.

Since then he's continuously gone with players like McKegg, Wilson, JJ, Cullen, Dumo, etc. over young players who are ready for more minutes. It was originally something you could write off in 2018 / 2019 as the young players simply not playing better than the older players on the roster, but as we have seen over the past few years that isn't the case.

JJ-Schultz in 2020 over POJ / Riikola and Ruhwedel.
This year with Dumo over POJ and Smith.
etc.
 
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AuroraBorealis

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Sullivan played his guys in 2016 and 2017. His guys left or got promoted and he was forced to play players like Simon and Sprong he didn't have in the AHL.
I meant what changed in Sullivan's coaching that made us vulnerable to surrendering leads after one year. Simon was a pretty defensively sound player. Sprong never played a playoff game here.

The way I see it the team gets excited after scoring and want more. They either push too far forward and get caught in transition, or they aren't mentally prepared to defend off the ensuing faceoff.
The goalies don't exactly bail us out either.
 

Gurglesons

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I meant what changed in Sullivan's coaching that made us vulnerable to surrendering leads after one year. Simon was a pretty defensively sound player. Sprong never played a playoff game here.

The way I see it the team gets excited after scoring and want more. They either push too far forward and get caught in transition, or they aren't mentally prepared to defend off the ensuing faceoff.
The goalies don't exactly bail us out either.

We ran the 1-2-2 occasionally in 2016, but really relied on it in 2017. Since then it has become a hallmark of us finishing out games. It's funny, people argue we should play the trap when we essentially do every time we take a lead.

It's also just the message. The message gets lost after 7 years. Nobody is committed to the same message for 7 years especially high profile athletes.

Look at the team right now. Why are you putting in max effort when regardless you are getting rewarded with the same minutes and the same usage if you are Carter or Dumoulin?

Same applies to Jake and Rust.
 

AuroraBorealis

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We ran the 1-2-2 occasionally in 2016, but really relied on it in 2017. Since then it has become a hallmark of us finishing out games. It's funny, people argue we should play the trap when we essentially do every time we take a lead.

It's also just the message. The message gets lost after 7 years. Nobody is committed to the same message for 7 years especially high profile athletes.

Look at the team right now. Why are you putting in max effort when regardless you are getting rewarded with the same minutes and the same usage if you are Carter or Dumoulin?

Same applies to Jake and Rust.
I don't think this particular issue is about the message or accountability. I suspect there's been a lack of video/instructional preparation to deal with this recurring problem.
The team should just be told to play a defensive style the first shift after they score, until things stabilize. I think we should play very defensive in the first minute of games too. Like, don't even try to score. It hasn't been worth it.

Both instances are high emotional points for our opponents, and we need to weather it and get our feet under us.

We should start games with the Blueger line. They don't get scored on much at all.
 

Gurglesons

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But he's a better player, Boston locked him up for a steal of a cap hit, and Chychrun will end up costing more assets.

That's what happens when you give an injury prone player who is one concussion away from likely never playing again to a 8 year deal.

Also Lindholm cost a 1st, two 2nds, and a solid prospect. Probably the return Chychrun will end up getting.
 
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