Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[chethejet]

NO way JVR with 7 million AAV fits here. I don't really want a player who is just a PP front net presence but really can't play the other 195 feet. McGill is better as a fit. As to Lafferty, come playoff time, many think he sucks but how many want the Pens to be rag dolled again. sully simply won't play guys who bring that element and prefers Heinens of the world.

 

[Pancakes]

Our deadline goals are obvious. Upgrade on Dumoulin, and upgrade the third line.

Now whether or not either can/will be done, we'll see, but those are the two weakest areas of the team. I'd love to get a premium 3c so that Carter can move to wing where he'd probably be better. Carter could still take the important draws when needed.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

NO way JVR with 7 million AAV fits here. I don't really want a player who is just a PP front net presence but really can't play the other 195 feet. McGill is better as a fit. As to Lafferty, come playoff time, many think he sucks but how many want the Pens to be rag dolled again. sully simply won't play guys who bring that element and prefers Heinens of the world.

Sam Lafferty is Josh Archibald.

You don't need both, and Archibald is cheaper and better.

 

[SEALBound]

Dumoulin+Heinen+3rd to LA for Brenden Lemieux and Carl Grundstrom.

Jake-Sid-Rakell
Zuck-Geno-Rust
Grundstrom-Carter-McGinn
Poehling-Blueger-Kapanen
Arch-Lemieux

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Sam Lafferty is Josh Archibald.

You don't need both, and Archibald is cheaper and better.

I'll say this about Archi...he's been quite reliable defensively.

We have 9 goals for, 2 against with him on the ice at 5v5 this year.
2 goals against in 254 mins of action?
With 74% D-zone starts you take that and run all day, every day.

 

[chethejet]

Archibald played well as RH 4th liner. But what I do see is a small guy who is not going to hold up physically in that role. Even at say 8 minutes, I prefer a bigger RH shot body who can play those minutes. Sully will never accept Lafferty back as I think he was the one who orchestrated the trade for fit.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Archibald played well as RH 4th liner. But what I do see is a small guy who is not going to hold up physically in that role. Even at say 8 minutes, I prefer a bigger RH shot body who can play those minutes. Sully will never accept Lafferty back as I think he was the one who orchestrated the trade for fit.

Why the pining for Laff? He sucks.
His stats look better because he's getting more mins in Chicago

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah Lafferty is producing at a 20 point pace for the Hawks while playing 3rd line minutes. He's literally just 2017-2021 Josh Archibald. I mean sure, that's a fine 4th line piece, but I'd never be demanding the Penguins sign someone like him.

Archibald has been really good here and I still have no interest in spending money to retain him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Our deadline goals are obvious. Upgrade on Dumoulin, and upgrade the third line.

Now whether or not either can/will be done, we'll see, but those are the two weakest areas of the team. I'd love to get a premium 3c so that Carter can move to wing where he'd probably be better. Carter could still take the important draws when needed.

I don't think they'll be able to upgrade the defense this year, I don't see any way they move Dumoulin. But on the 3rd line, I'm not sure the 3rd line needs to be improved as much as the bottom-6 in general just needs another McGinn caliber bottom-6 winger. I don't have an issue with McGinn-Carter-Kapanen and would be fine with acquiring another McGinn caliber player to play on the 4th line. You just need to do that and push probably Poehling out of the lineup. Poehling is a nice depth piece, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think he absolutely has to play. He's a Riley Sheahan type of depth forward.

On defense, I really don't think there is any reason to complicate it. You know they'll be running with this when healthy:

Pettersson-Letang
Dumoulin-Petry
POJ-Rutta

And then they'll be running with this next year:

Pettersson-Letang
POJ-Petry
Smith-Rutta

I do like the idea of acquiring someone like Soucy to keep POJ on the 3rd pair, but I'm skeptical for how long you could actually afford that for. POJ is due for a huge raise after next season and you need to give Smith an opportunity.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think they'll be able to upgrade the defense this year, I don't see any way they move Dumoulin. But on the 3rd line, I'm not sure the 3rd line needs to be improved as much as the bottom-6 in general just needs another McGinn caliber bottom-6 winger. I don't have an issue with McGinn-Carter-Kapanen and would be fine with acquiring another McGinn caliber player to play on the 4th line. You just need to do that and push probably Poehling out of the lineup. Poehling is a nice depth piece, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think he absolutely has to play. He's a Riley Sheahan type of depth forward.

On defense, I really don't think there is any reason to complicate it. You know they'll be running with this when healthy:

Pettersson-Letang
Dumoulin-Petry
POJ-Rutta

And then they'll be running with this next year:

Pettersson-Letang
POJ-Petry
Smith-Rutta

I do like the idea of acquiring someone like Soucy to keep POJ on the 3rd pair, but I'm skeptical for how long you could actually afford that for. POJ is due for a huge raise after next season and you need to give Smith an opportunity.

I think a team could easily take him back if we make a move before the deadline and then hope to retain and flip him. I look at a team like San Jose with Simek.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think a team could easily take him back if we make a move before the deadline and then hope to retain and flip him. I look at a team like San Jose with Simek.

It's not a problem of they can't do it, it's a problem of they won't do it.

I sincerely doubt they'd trade Dumoulin as a rental as the team is contending, both as a sign of respect for Dumoulin and also wanting to keep around his veteran experience. They'll just let him walk after the year.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not a problem of they can't do it, it's a problem of they won't do it.

I sincerely doubt they'd trade Dumoulin as a rental as the team is contending, both as a sign of respect for Dumoulin and also wanting to keep around his veteran experience. They'll just let him walk after the year.

It'll be a curious situation. If he continues to be as bad as he has been, I don't see how they can't entertain the idea of moving him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It's not a problem of they can't do it, it's a problem of they won't do it.

I sincerely doubt they'd trade Dumoulin as a rental as the team is contending, both as a sign of respect for Dumoulin and also wanting to keep around his veteran experience. They'll just let him walk after the year.

Precisely.
They gave him the A when we had a few injuries...that's how highly they think of him

 

[Gurglesons]

Precisely.
They gave him the A when we had a few injuries...that's how highly they think of him

 

[The GM]

It's not a problem of they can't do it, it's a problem of they won't do it.

I sincerely doubt they'd trade Dumoulin as a rental as the team is contending, both as a sign of respect for Dumoulin and also wanting to keep around his veteran experience. They'll just let him walk after the year.

They’d also have to figure out who’s going to DJ in the locker room as well if they moved Dumo. Lots to think about.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

View attachment 626983

Well shit...didn't remember that!

 

[Pancakes]

It'll be a curious situation. If he continues to be as bad as he has been, I don't see how they can't entertain the idea of moving him.

Does Pens management share the same assessment of Dumoulin's game that we do though? I always wonder about that because it took them years to admit JJ was bad and finally buy him out.

 

[BusinessGoose]

They’d also have to figure out who’s going to DJ in the locker room as well if they moved Dumo. Lots to think about.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Does Pens management share the same assessment of Dumoulin's game that we do though? I always wonder about that because it took them years to admit JJ was bad and finally buy him out.

I think it was about year 2 where they said "oh boy, we made a big mistake". If the contract albatross wasn't around, they likely would've pulled the trigger more quickly.

The kicker is though that no one FORCED JJ to dress nearly his entire tenure here. I wonder who bears responsibility for that?

 

[Gurglesons]

Does Pens management share the same assessment of Dumoulin's game that we do though? I always wonder about that because it took them years to admit JJ was bad and finally buy him out.

# 1. This is a different management group that has been fine with moving on from players once they are redundant cap wise. We’ve seen that with Tanev, McCann, Rodrigues, etc.

# 2. At some point if Dumoulin continues to be the clear issue he is on the ice defensively it is impossible to make any other assessment. They may make other statements in the media, but they clearly did not like the defensive make up and went to great lengths to adjust it. They’ve also been clear about not wanting to keep their defensive depth at 9 D.

 

[Pancakes]

I think it was about year 2 where they said "oh boy, we made a big mistake". If the contract albatross wasn't around, they likely would've pulled the trigger more quickly.

The kicker is though that no one FORCED JJ to dress nearly his entire tenure here. I wonder who bears responsibility for that?

Sullivan deserves blame for that but I am sure that JR was giving input on lineup decisions as well.

 

[Pancakes]

# 1. This is a different management group that has been fine with moving on from players once they are redundant cap wise. We’ve seen that with Tanev, McCann, Rodrigues, etc.

# 2. At some point if Dumoulin continues to be the clear issue he is on the ice defensively it is impossible to make any other assessment. They may make other statements in the media, but they clearly did not like the defensive make up and went to great lengths to adjust it. They’ve also been clear about not wanting to keep their defensive depth at 9 D.

I don't disagree but I also think there's a difference between "this player is struggling, let's find a different way to utilize him and get value" and "this player is struggling, we need to get rid of him as he's actively hurting the team".

I just don't know if they're willing to go that extra step with Dumo. I do think to @Empoleon8771's point there is a player respect aspect to consider here. It'd be foolish to consider Dumoulin's pride more important than the team's success but we know coaches/gms make those kinds of mistakes all the time. So I wouldn't be surprised if they take the middle ground option of keeping him but reducing his minutes, even if moving on from him would be better for the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't disagree but I also think there's a difference between "this player is struggling, let's find a different way to utilize him and get value" and "this player is struggling, we need to get rid of him as he's actively hurting the team".

I just don't know if they're willing to go that extra step with Dumo. I do think to @Empoleon8771's point there is a player respect aspect to consider here. It'd be foolish to consider Dumoulin's pride more important than the team's success but we know coaches/gms make those kinds of mistakes all the time. So I wouldn't be surprised if they take the middle ground option of keeping him but reducing his minutes, even if moving on from him would be better for the team.

Dumoulin’s only value in terms of this team at this point is coming from his PKing ability and the staffs usage of him seems to be realizing that.

 

[Peat]

Does Pens management share the same assessment of Dumoulin's game that we do though? I always wonder about that because it took them years to admit JJ was bad and finally buy him out.

It's pretty much a given that every NHL front office assesses dmen, particularly dmen with size, differently to how we do.

JJ is a special case because Rutherford hung a lot of emotion on that decision, and there's also good reason for being very very reluctant to buy that contract out, so I wouldn't use him as the barometer. But you don't have to as there's tons of examples. Tons and tons.

And given how much dmen with size have shone through post-season, maybe they're not wrong to do so.

In any case, yes, I doubt they're going to do anything at this stage. If he looks crap end of February they maybe feel different but we're a couple of months away there. Hopefully they move him away from Rutta but that's about it. I would also add that decision probably has nothing to do with Dumo's pride, and a lot to do with how the locker room will think of things. If Sully argues against subtracting a respected semi-core vet at this stage because he's got how the team reacted to trading out Hagelin at the back of his head, it's a hang-up with reason behind it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Archibald has been really good here and I still have no interest in spending money to retain him.

If Archi continues his pace thru the season, I'd welcome him back at the same pay rate