Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[Empoleon8771]

A new UFA option popped up, Rem Pitlick. Montreal is allegedly not qualifying him due to a fear of what his arbitration award would be. He had 37 points in 66 games last year between Montreal and Minnesota. Could be an interesting Kapanen/Heinen replacement for the 3rd line if he's willing to sign for less than the $2.5m-$3m that Kapanen and Heinen will sign for.



The point production isn't the thing I care about (because it's super unsustainable), I'm interested in seeing the analytics for how he did in Montreal. In Minnesota, they looked really good.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Also why are we acting like $6.5 million is "elite" money? $6.5 million is borderline 1st/2nd line center money. $6.5 million for Malkin is a good value, $6 million is great value.

It's not elite money, but we have to be real that $6.5M is going to look terrible by Year 3 of the deal at the latest.

TBH I think there are people in the org that would rather pay $8.5M/1 year than $6.5M/3 years.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It's not elite money, but we have to be real that $6.5M is going to look terrible by Year 3 of the deal at the latest.

TBH I think there are people in the org that would rather pay $8.5M/1 year than $6.5M/3 years.

As prideful as Crosby, Malkin and Letang are, if it gets to the point where they clearly can't play but they still have a contract, they'll just retire. And if they simply retire, the cap hit comes off the books.

So if Geno signs a 4-year contract but it's clear after Year 3 that he simply can't play anymore and he retires before Year 4, the Pens aren't screwed. In fact, they'll gain his cap space.

 

[Empoleon8771]

As prideful as Crosby, Malkin and Letang are, if it gets to the point where they clearly can't play but they still have a contract, they'll just retire. And if they simply retire, the cap hit comes off the books.

So if Geno signs a 4-year contract but it's clear after Year 3 that he simply can't play anymore and he retires before Year 4, the Pens aren't screwed. In fact, they'll gain his cap space.

If he signs a contract that has less money in year 4 than year 3, this isn't the case as far as I know.

 

[Dangles78]

As prideful as Crosby, Malkin and Letang are, if it gets to the point where they clearly can't play but they still have a contract, they'll just retire. And if they simply retire, the cap hit comes off the books.

So if Geno signs a 4-year contract but it's clear after Year 3 that he simply can't play anymore and he retires before Year 4, the Pens aren't screwed. In fact, they'll gain his cap space.

No shot lol. They've taken discounts; I don't care how much the city of Pittsburgh has given them and vice versa, they are still in their 30's and they will just LTIR themselves and collect a check vs simply retire.

 

[ChaosAgent]

As prideful as Crosby, Malkin and Letang are, if it gets to the point where they clearly can't play but they still have a contract, they'll just retire. And if they simply retire, the cap hit comes off the books.

So if Geno signs a 4-year contract but it's clear after Year 3 that he simply can't play anymore and he retires before Year 4, the Pens aren't screwed. In fact, they'll gain his cap space.

That won't actually happen. That's a scenario you're making up. He could feasibly "play" but still be a huge hindrance in an elevated role at 39-40 and wouldn't retire.

But if they frontload Geno's actual money, then maybe it would make sense.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

If he signs a contract that has less money in year 4 than year 3, this isn't the case as far as I know.

Correct. If it is front loaded or has bonuses later in the contract, then the cap hit stays. And, to be blunt, a front-loaded 35+ contract is idiotic. If the Penguins do that, then Hextall is a moron. The Caps did it with Ovechkin and gave him bonuses later in his contract. If he retires before his contract expires, they're stuck with a $9.5 million cap hit.

I'm hoping Carter's contract is a sign that Hextall won't do that and that the salary will be the same for the duration of the contracts for Letang and/or Malkin.

More details from Taylor Haase last summer: Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sports

That won't actually happen. That's a scenario you're making up. He could feasibly "play" but still be a huge hindrance in an elevated role at 39-40 and wouldn't retire.

But if they frontload Geno's actual money, then maybe it would make sense.

They don't want to frontload it. That'd be bad. If they do that, they're on the hook for the full cap hit even if Malkin and Letang retire. If they backload it or keep it even, they're absolved of the cap hit if they retire.

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

That won't actually happen. That's a scenario you're making up. He could feasibly "play" but still be a huge hindrance in an elevated role at 39-40 and wouldn't retire.

But if they frontload Geno's actual money, then maybe it would make sense.

Cap hit still remains for the team on 35+ contracts if the deal includes signing bonuses after the first year or the salary is front loaded on the year-to-year breakdown.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Correct. If it is front loaded or has bonuses later in the contract, then the cap hit stays. And, to be blunt, a front-loaded 35+ contract is idiotic. If the Penguins do that, then Hextall is a moron. The Caps did it with Ovechkin and gave him bonuses later in his contract. If he retires before his contract expires, they're stuck with a $9.5 million cap hit.

I'm hoping Carter's contract is a sign that Hextall won't do that and that the salary will be the same for the duration of the contracts for Letang and/or Malkin.

More details from Taylor Haase last summer: Pittsburgh Steelers, Penguins, Pirates News, Live Coverage | DK Pittsburgh Sports

Wasn't Carter's contract actually front loaded?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Wasn't Carter's contract actually front loaded?

Shit. You're right. By $250,000.

It's $3,250,000 the first year and $3,000,000 the next year. I was looking at the wrong line.

Well, that's stupid, especially for that little. My faith in Hextall designing non-front-loaded contracts for Malkin and Letang just dropped a little.

The principle holds though: If the Penguins sign Letang/Malkin to even or to backloaded contracts without signing bonuses in their later years, they will lose their cap hits if they retire before the contract ends.

 

[Jobeycool]

Anything Kingerski writes doesn't pass the smell test

It is like He rambles but is sort of making sense but off His rockers a bit..

 

[ronduguayshair]

No longer elite?

He’s a second line center with warts. Biggest one being the fanbase who doesn’t see this.

5 on 5 black hole. Makes no one around him better. Better excuses though!

 

[SEALBound]

He’s a second line center with warts. Biggest one being the fanbase who doesn’t see this.

5 on 5 black hole. Makes no one around him better. Better excuses though!

Still a PPG player that boosts the PP.

"Elite" may be a stretch by comparison to the other "elites" in the league but let's be honest, he's a 1C on more than half the teams in the league. Come on now. You're just being petty at this point.

He's not the Malkin of 2012, is that what you want to hear?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Rossi says term has been sticking point in Letang and Malkin negotiations. Pens have budged on Letang and appear to be close to Letang's ask of 4-5 years with an AAV between $7.25 to $8 million.

Rossi's sources said Pens most recent offer to Malkin was 2 years, $6 million. Malkin will only take such a cut if he gets 4 years, and he feels he's been a little disrespected by the short-term offer.

The Pens were hoping to keep Malkin/Letang to a combined $14 million AAV.
-----
From reading this it sounds like Hextall has been tough. Seems like it'd be a fair compromise to go 4 years, $7.5 million with Letang and 3 years, $ 7 million with Malkin and it'd be done. Or hell, just give Malkin the four years at $6 million. But Hextall seems determined to get every dollar.

I already mentioned this, Geno put his foot in his mouth and showed his cards that he wants to retire a pen "and money doesn't matter"

Hextall made Letang a priority and is going to play hardball and squeeze what he can out of the salaries and build the best team he can b/c FSG still wants to see the push.

Hextall owes Geno nothing ( He hasn't won anything with Hextall here) and obviously has an ego from everything we heard about the guy

Its a dangerous game to play b/c you really can piss the player off but it could also squeeze another top player in the lineup if we can save money.

End of the day I feel like we get them both back even though its a pretty shitty way to treat a player who will go down as a top 5 player here all time and thats a pretty tough list. Its a business though and FSG is Hextall's boss, they want to win and Hextall has to build a team with salary and pull all the cards he can.

 

[Jacob]

He definitely needs to move to wing at least semi-permanently.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Still a PPG player that boosts the PP.

"Elite" may be a stretch by comparison to the other "elites" in the league but let's be honest, he's a 1C on more than half the teams in the league. Come on now. You're just being petty at this point.

He's not the Malkin of 2012, is that what you want to hear?

He's not even worth responding to, guys had it out for Geno since day one. I think he ordered a mail order bride from Russia that never came

 

[Pens x]

I already mentioned this, Geno put his foot in his mouth and showed his cards that he wants to retire a pen "and money doesn't matter"

Hextall made Letang a priority and is going to play hardball and squeeze what he can out of the salaries and build the best team he can b/c FSG still wants to see the push.

Hextall owes Geno nothing ( He hasn't won anything with Hextall here) and obviously has an ego from everything we heard about the guy

Its a dangerous game to play b/c you really can piss the player off but it could also squeeze another top player in the lineup if we can save money.

End of the day I feel like we get them both back even though its a pretty shitty way to treat a player who will go down as a top 5 player here all time and thats a pretty tough list. Its a business though and FSG is Hextall's boss, they want to win and Hextall has to build a team with salary and pull all the cards he can.

He should find a more reliable back up goalie and some wingers for Geno.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hextall's job is to build the best team he has. If that involves playing hardball with two of his UFAs that are franchise players with the team, he should do that. This isn't any sort of malice, it's just how a negotiation goes. Malkin wants the most money for himself, while Hextall wants the least money to Malkin so he can build the best team around Malkin that he can.

People shouldn't take these kind of contract negotiations as personal. Everyone here is on good terms with each other as far as we can tell.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Hextall's job is to build the best team he has. If that involves playing hardball with two of his UFAs that are franchise players with the team, he should do that. This isn't any sort of malice, it's just how a negotiation goes. Malkin wants the most money for himself, while Hextall wants the least money to Malkin so he can build the best team around Malkin that he can.

People shouldn't take these kind of contract negotiations as personal. Everyone here is on good terms with each other as far as we can tell.

Emp, you are Pittsburgh media, you flip more than a politician

 

[Empoleon8771]

Emp, you are Pittsburgh media, you flip more than a politician

I have literally been saying all along that Hextall's primary focus should be building the best team he can build. Like I've been adamant about that for months when the Malkin extension talk has come up.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I have literally been saying all along that Hextall's primary focus should be building the best team he can build. Like I've been adamant about that for months when the Malkin extension talk has come up.

Cmon brah, you been saying Malkin is good as gone as well, I guess you are covering all your bases

 

[Empoleon8771]

Cmon brah, you been saying Malkin is good as gone as well, I guess you are covering all your bases

Where in that post did I say anything about the likelihood of Malkin coming back? My post was about how Hextall should be running the team, which is what he's doing right now.

I want Malkin back (at a reasonable number), and I hope that Letang being signed clears up the situation with Malkin.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Still a PPG player that boosts the PP.

"Elite" may be a stretch by comparison to the other "elites" in the league but let's be honest, he's a 1C on more than half the teams in the league. Come on now. You're just being petty at this point.

He's not the Malkin of 2012, is that what you want to hear?

He’s not a 1c. Who are you Phoenix?

This fanbase…

 

[Empoleon8771]

Question really is, does the best possible team include a Malkin extension or not? Malkin at $9.5mil, prob not. Malkin at $6mil, yes. Malkin at $7.5-8.5mil...depends.

Yeah that has been my point. Paying Malkin any price he wants won't make the team better. Getting Malkin at $6.5 million, which allows you to have the money to re-sign Rakell (if you trade Pettersson) and possibly even more (if you trade Zucker) does.

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah that has been my point. Paying Malkin any price he wants won't make the team better. Getting Malkin at $6.5 million, which allows you to have the money to re-sign Rakell (if you trade Pettersson) and possibly even more (if you trade Zucker) does.

Yup, Malkin "at any cost" isn't in the best interest of the team moving forward. We either need him at a low enough cost to add another impact player, we need to move 2-3 roster players (Kap, Zuck, Pettersson) to have the space to add another impact player, or we need to move on from Malkin to have the place to add 2 impact players.