Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Ulf5]

Karlsson get ready to learn Columbanese buddy. Jk nobody is waiving to go there.

No cliff notes?

 

[Empoleon8771]

No I don't wanna receive notifications from you. Stop referencing me. Stop replying to me. Respect my wishes. Control yourself. Let it go.

Still a lot to give up. Effectively turning Petts and an additional pick into Jiricek is really not a great use of assets in my opinion, but I’m not really that against it either.

My general stance is that the system needs top end talent super badly, so I'd gladly sacrifice a 2nd to upgrade from a late 1st to a prospect like Jiricek. So many late 1sts end up Beauvillier caliber players that I'd take the gamble on Jiricek and just hope he hits the upside he could have.

Rumours are Carolina would take a flier on Ned due to injuries.

I had the same thought but I think that 2nd year is a deal breaker. If he was only on a 1 year deal I think it would make a boatload of sense.

According to Evolving Hockey, the Pens best goalie this season has been Blomqvist with a .92 goals saved above expected…
But Jarry has improved lol to a -2.9 goals saved above expected compared to Ned at -8.48…wouldn’t mind trading Ned honestly

I'll say something brave: Jarry hasn't been that bad since coming back up.

Like he's not good but he's more "passable" than "horrendous".

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, as arguably the president of the "Penguins rebuild now" movement around here, I'd be fine throwing a later 1st at Jiricek just to see if it works. Even if he bombs, you're still probably not getting anybody close to his potential at like, 20th+ overall.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Jarry was never "the problem" with this team.

He's just a thoroughly mediocre bottom third at best starter with an asinine contract. When I get mad at Jarry I'm ACTUALLY getting mad at Kyle Dubas and whatever dunderheads filled him in on Jarry and his ability.

Replace him with a terrific goaltender and this team almost certainly still stinks or is at best a fringe playoff team... so long as this hypothetical goaltender is standing on his head and performing minor miracles every night.

 

[Ryder71]

As long as we don't trade lottery or high picks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarry was never "the problem" with this team.

He's just a thoroughly mediocre bottom third at best starter with an asinine contract.

Replace him with a terrific goaltender and this team almost certainly still stinks or is at best a fringe playoff team so long as this hypothetical goaltender is standing on his head and performing minor miracles every night. .

I don't even care if Jarry ends up playing well, I just want him to not make me want to stick a fork into an outlet watching him. Like the team sucks, it's okay to have a mediocre goalie on a bloated deal. Just don't make me hate watching it.

It's the same way with the entire team. I don't care if they're bad just don't make me hate watching it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

This is the difference between Dubas and Hextall, for those who keep wondering.

Dubas' plan may fail. His moves may end up blowing up in his face. But he articulates his idea and his vision - to some degree - and then is active in trying to make it happen.

Maybe Hextall had a plan and just couldn't articulate it. But Hextall was invisible far too often. He would not have made a move like the Eller trade.

Yes, Dubas should fire Sullivan. We all agree. Until he does, it'll be a significant hurdle to truly change this team's direction. But strictly from a player personnel standpoint, I can at least see the direction Dubas is trying to go. We'll see if it works out.

 

[Duffy13]

My general stance is that the system needs top end talent super badly, so I'd gladly sacrifice a 2nd to upgrade from a late 1st to a prospect like Jiricek. So many late 1sts end up Beauvillier caliber players that I'd take the gamble on Jiricek and just hope he hits the upside he could have.



I had the same thought but I think that 2nd year is a deal breaker. If he was only on a 1 year deal I think it would make a boatload of sense.



I'll say something brave: Jarry hasn't been that bad since coming back up.

Like he's not good but he's more "passable" than "horrendous".

Jarry has been adequate, he hasn't been making those game stealing saves for a long time now, but he's been perfectly adequate with this shit show of a defensive scheme.

I doubt it results in a trade that is considered neutral... Yet. I would think, if he can keep from regressing to his play at the end of last year and the start of this one, he could be an acquisition for a team desperate to try something.

 

[Pancakes]

I’ve been wondering if somehow we pull Jiricek with a package of like Jarry at 50%, plus a 2nd or something and take on Elvis at his full hit.

That's an interesting idea actually. Elvis has one less year on his deal than Jarry does and both guys have obviously struggled mightily on their respective teams.

If Dubas could leverage that to pay less for Jiricek I'd be all for it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, I mean, having a dogshit defensive team in front of you craters any goalie aside from like prime Hasek. Ullmark went from perennial Vezina discussion to sub .890 sv% in Ottawa.

Not saying Jarry's anywhere near Ullmark, but he's very much a "dude needs a change of scenery if he's gonna stabilize his career" guy imo.

I just don't know if there's a team willing to take a shot at him, even a team like Colorado that's had horrendous goalie play. I absolutely would not pay a team to take him, not a chance, and I think you might have to in order to get somebody interested because of the term. His cap hit is whatever, especially with the cap rising dramatically in the next few years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't even care if Jarry ends up playing well, I just want him to not make me want to stick a fork into an outlet watching him. Like the team sucks, it's okay to have a mediocre goalie on a bloated deal. Just don't make me hate watching it.

It's the same way with the entire team. I don't care if they're bad just don't make me hate watching it.

I mean... that's basically my entire gripe summed up right now.

I knew they were likely going to suck at this point or at least be very much on the downward spiral. I prepared for that years ago. I watched Lemieux try to play until the end, too. It's always ugly at least to some degree.

But FFS at least make it as fun as you possibly can if you aren't going to win anything. Try to score some goals... build player value... figure out what you have in some young players etc. This is just like... eye poison purgatory. I don't even feel bad for turning this shit off anymore because it's legitimately offensive and insulting.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is the difference between Dubas and Hextall, for those who keep wondering.

Dubas' plan may fail. His moves may end up blowing up in his face. But he articulates his idea and his vision - to some degree - and then is active in trying to make it happen.

Maybe Hextall had a plan and just couldn't articulate it. But Hextall was invisible far too often. He would not have made a move like the Eller trade.

Yes, Dubas should fire Sullivan. We all agree. Until he does, it'll be a significant hurdle to truly change this team's direction. But strictly from a player personnel standpoint, I can at least see the direction Dubas is trying to go. We'll see if it works out.

I feel like this is giving Dubas too much credit. Dubas' performance so far has mostly been "give out bad UFA deals" and "throw shit at the wall with cheap trades and reclamation projects".

 

[Andy99]

Rumours are Carolina would take a flier on Ned due to injuries.

Then he should be gone…he hasn’t been good so far this season and then there’s no harm in trading him since we’re flush with goalies and aren’t intending to win anyway

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This is the difference between Dubas and Hextall, for those who keep wondering.

Dubas' plan may fail. His moves may end up blowing up in his face. But he articulates his idea and his vision - to some degree - and then is active in trying to make it happen.

DP are you saying... that Dubas speaks in complete sentences?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This is the difference between Dubas and Hextall, for those who keep wondering.

Dubas' plan may fail. His moves may end up blowing up in his face. But he articulates his idea and his vision - to some degree - and then is active in trying to make it happen.

Maybe Hextall had a plan and just couldn't articulate it. But Hextall was invisible far too often. He would not have made a move like the Eller trade.

Yes, Dubas should fire Sullivan. We all agree. Until he does, it'll be a significant hurdle to truly change this team's direction. But strictly from a player personnel standpoint, I can at least see the direction Dubas is trying to go. We'll see if it works out.

I would agree but the guy's still building Hextall bottom-6s, so... I dunno.

I don't really give a shit about the here and now when judging Dubas--though I think he's been mediocre at best in that regard. I'll reserve judgement for the long term, and the fact that he's even targeting guys like Tomasino and Jiricek is a good sign. Although the bar is pretty much subterranean based on his moves/signings though a year and a half with the team.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I feel like this is giving Dubas too much credit. Dubas' performance so far has mostly been "give out bad UFA deals" and "throw shit at the wall with cheap trades and reclamation projects".

I'll admit that it's a very pro-Dubas stance.

However, I think the UFA deals are designed to be stop-gaps/lotto tickets. Especially this year. Bring them in, see if they perform enough to be attractive at the deadline, flip them for assets. It allows Dubas to use other assets to acquire the younger players and prospects he's looking for to restock the system.

 

[Duffy13]

Then he should be gone…he hasn’t been good so far this season and then there’s no harm in trading him since we’re flush with goalies and aren’t intending to win anyway

Problem is, right now there's so many rumours it's like the trade deadline is this weekend. It's pretty nuts lol

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I would agree but the guy's still building Hextall bottom-6s, so... I dunno.

Well Dubas isn't actually building that I don't think. To be fair to the bespectacled weenus.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

DP are you saying... that Dubas speaks in complete sentences?

I have a higher bar than that.

No, it's more about willingness to explain. Hextall was so freakin' paranoid and unwilling to pull back the curtain even a little bit. There was an arrogance to every press conference.

Dubas is more of a politician. He understands the importance of explaining things publicly, even if it's light on significant detail. But there's enough there to at least get an idea of what he's trying to do, even if he stays quiet on the exact machinations.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I would take Elvis on this team.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Well Dubas isn't actually building that I don't think. To be fair to the bespectacled weenus.

He's not. And to build off of what I said about the UFAs, these are guys that are largely still valued elsewhere in the NHL. Someone will pick up Noel Acciari for a draft pick. I guarantee it. Just like the Rangers acquired Ruhwedel last year.

Someone will take a flyer on Beauvillier, especially if he's got 10-12 goals.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'll admit that it's a very pro-Dubas stance.

However, I think the UFA deals are designed to be stop-gaps/lotto tickets. Especially this year. Bring them in, see if they perform enough to be attractive at the deadline, flip them for assets. It allows Dubas to use other assets to acquire the younger players and prospects he's looking for to restock the system.

But that's not what the Acciari, Graves and Jarry deals were. Handing out 1 year deals to Grzelcyk and Beauvillier aren't the "shitty UFA deals" I was referencing.

What he has done since the Karlsson trade has been fine. But what he did up to the Karlsson trade was such a monumental trainwreck that left them with multiple problems. The largest problems on the roster right now are pretty much entirely from Dubas' first 2 months as GM. He has been fine at following the "bring in young talent" since then, but that doesn't erase the disaster start.

What he has done since the start of the 2023-2024 season? Fine, I guess you can say that. Traded for a couple of young reclamation project types (Bemstrom, Tomisano and Glass), got okay value for Guentzel and Smith, got paid to take on a few bad deals, handed out some 1 year UFA deals for guys who will be trade bait...it's all fine and following a focused path. But the start was a completely different path and it was a complete failure that Dubas has still not properly made up for.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'll admit that it's a very pro-Dubas stance.

However, I think the UFA deals are designed to be stop-gaps/lotto tickets. Especially this year. Bring them in, see if they perform enough to be attractive at the deadline, flip them for assets. It allows Dubas to use other assets to acquire the younger players and prospects he's looking for to restock the system.

Who in the world is going to buy up Kevin Hayes, Matt Nieto, Blake Lizzotte, Cody Glass, Grizzledick, etc? Besides himself, I mean.

You guys' plan has a truck-sized hole punched through it -- none of these dudes are building value. They are losing it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I would take Elvis on this team.

Between the injuries the last couple of years and the horrible fireworks accident involving his good friend, I wonder if leaving Columbus would be a good fresh start for him.

 

[Duffy13]

Is it the 3 GMs, and the dozens of bottom 6 forwards that are the problem?

Or is the coach that has been here through it all?

Apparently it's the 3rd GMs fault, and no fault of the Coach.



f***ing hell, these guys man.... At least let's see what happens with a coaching change before we go all in on Dubas.... There's a lot of shared blame to go around.