Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[HandshakeLine]

Who thinks this team is a contender?

 

[The Old Master]

I was just messin around. But yeah I just don't see the point in a like 9M dollar long term Jake. YMMV

as long as there isn't a no trade/no move crap with it. I'm ok with it.
edit; it would allow us to be more picky.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Who thinks this team is a contender?

FSG

 

[Allie Kitsune]

Who thinks this team is a contender?

Dictator-for-Life Mike.

 

[The Old Master]

Dictator-for-Life Mike.

From what I've heard, he knows the heat is on.

 

[molon labe]

I don’t have any faith in Dubas turning around this team. He seems to be a yes man based on his gushing about Mike Sullivan.

He could have been easily excused for coming in and scorching earth - they missed the POs last year, new guard, blah blah.

He made his bed by coming in and simping.

Next - he's had two, maybe three(?) long weekends/long stretches between bad games here this season and nothing has happened. You'd think he'd have been canned over the long weekend, on the week off, or here with 4 days off (had he not been canned before, obviously).....yet he's still here. So why would anyone think for one second that he won't be here later in the year? Is Dubas daft enough to fire him when we're so far out of the hunt, with zero roster pieces, and trades no longer allowed so that whatever new coach is just instantly hand tied into the same shit? Logic is escaping this situation.

Disgusting me I'm even 1% agreeing with the Crosby to the Avs discussions on the MB. Dude deserves better and this tire fire is straight pain to watch or support.

 

[The Old Master]

Disgusting me I'm even 1% agreeing with the Crosby to the Avs discussions on the MB. Dude deserves better and this tire fire is straight pain to watch or support.

if we are going to blow it up, might as well go nucellar. and get it over with.

 

[SEALBound]

It might take Sid making the call if Dubas is wishy-washy on it. And there are other ways around it. I talked about making Sullivan a Senior Hockey Ops person or some other bullshit made up title last year to get him out of the HC spot.

I think you can go semi-scorched earth and try again next year. It just means waiving the white flag on this season. They are 21st as is. If they send out some guys with the intention of refueling next year, no doubt they finish bottom 10. Then you get your 2025 1st in the Guentzel deal.

Jake (extended) to Vancouver for Hoglander, Lekkeimaki, 2025 1st, 2024 3rd (or similar)
Smith to Arizona for 2nd
Acciari to Winnipeg for a 4th
Neds to Toronto for NYI 3rd
POJ to Calgary to Dube (can be off-season move)

Bring in Roslovic, DeBrusk, and Bertuzzi

Bertuzzi-Crosby-Rust
Debrusk-Malkin-Rakell
DOC-Roslovic-Hoglander
Nieto-Eller-Dube

Petts-Letang
Graves-Karlsson
Ludvig-Shea

TJ-BUG/Blomqvist

There's plenty of money left there as well. You could get a better 3rd pairing guy and a decent BUG or resign Neds if available.

That gives us significantly more depth, a new look and allows us to mix and match A LOT. DOC, Hoglander, and Dube can all play in the middle 6 and you can mix and match wing pairings until you find something that works. Roslovic is down a bit this season but I think he's a guy who can rebound just like Eller did with us. You can scratch Nieto and have guys like Puustinen, Yager, or Lekkeimaki in the mix as well.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I have said repeatedly they can Fire Sullivan Yesterday, Last week, Last season it doesn't f***ing matter to me, But you loons who think that it is all of a sudden going to make the Pens a SC Contender will be crestfallen

Most of us just want the Pens to be entertaining and for Sid/Geno to rack up points. This team hasn't had contender potential for years, regardless of who's coaching. JR saw to that and then Hextall sealed and buried the coffin.

 

[chethejet]

Well Dubas isn't Hextall stupid here. He came in and did what was doable. would I trade Petry and Grunland contracts for Karlsson. In a NY minute. Karlsson can be moved after next year for asset management. Now Jake is the barometer and no question Sullivan has his way Jake is here to make his decisions easier. Me I think it will come down to are changes needed now? Are assets needed for depth and competition. If Jake brings back a really good package I start now.

 

[Jacob]

If Comtois is in the clear in the you-know-what then maybe he's worth a league minimum deal. Nearly a PPG in the AHL, and on an AHL-only deal so technically a UFA.

 

[PensFutures]

Well Dubas isn't Hextall stupid here. He came in and did what was doable. would I trade Petry and Grunland contracts for Karlsson. In a NY minute. Karlsson can be moved after next year for asset management. Now Jake is the barometer and no question Sullivan has his way Jake is here to make his decisions easier. Me I think it will come down to are changes needed now? Are assets needed for depth and competition. If Jake brings back a really good package I start now.

I think sometimes this gets overlooked too much. It doesnt matter if my team finished 1st or 32nd, if I have the chance to make that trade, I do it 100/100 times. Karlsson is still on pace for about 65 points, which is maybe slightly lower than his usual.

What did we really lose in that trade? A 1st rd pick that at the time looked like it would be around the 20th spot allowed us to upgrade Petry, end up with an upgrade over DeSmith, lose a square peg in a round hole at 3C, an overpriced 3rd pairing defenseman, and an AHL curtain jerker.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think sometimes this gets overlooked too much. It doesnt matter if my team finished 1st or 32nd, if I have the chance to make that trade, I do it 100/100 times. Karlsson is still on pace for about 65 points, which is maybe slightly lower than his usual.

What did we really lose in that trade? We upgraded Petry, ended up with an upgrade over DeSmith, and lost a square peg in a round hole at 3C, an overpriced 3rd pairing defenseman, an AHL curtain jerker, and a 1st round pick that we havent hit on since 2012 or 2006 before that.

A 1st rounder has limited value because a team that hardly ever has 1st rounders (and if they have them, they are low picks) didn't get a couple right?

I agree with the overall point, but it's bizarre to say a 10-15 pick doesn't have significant value.

 

[The Old Master]

What did we really lose in that trade?

lets wait till we see, before we make that judgement. not say'en I wouldn't make the trade.

 

[SEALBound]

Well Dubas isn't Hextall stupid here. He came in and did what was doable. would I trade Petry and Grunland contracts for Karlsson. In a NY minute. Karlsson can be moved after next year for asset management. Now Jake is the barometer and no question Sullivan has his way Jake is here to make his decisions easier. Me I think it will come down to are changes needed now? Are assets needed for depth and competition. If Jake brings back a really good package I start now.

Oh 100%. Of all the moves he made, EK is the one I'm the most lenient about. People pretend it was Dubas spending a free $10.5mil on the guy when that isn't the case. I'm 100% in the EK > Petry, Granlund, Rutta club. Petry is HS territory. Granlund was terrible. Rutta I'd like to have but man was he expensive for what he brought. 100% EK being here is better.

Dubas is also in a very tough decision. The expectation (and wishes of the org, owners, and players) is to make the playoffs. To date, their performance has been suspect enough to question whether or not it happens but they aren't so far away that it's a foregone conclusion. While soooo many here want to pull the plug on the season, that's not the direction the organization necessarily wants. With Guentzel, its so friggin tough to know what the right move is at this juncture. Not very often do you get immediate returns on guys like Guentzel that allow a team to compete the following year. Looking at three high-profile trades - Hall, Meier, and Horvat - none of the trading teams got back significant pieces that have turned the tide. Our best case is nabbing someone like Lekkeimaki and hope that he's a core piece with Yager in 6-7 years. The return we get doesn't help us that much now but that's the crux of any major trade. It's typically easier for the other team because they are usually shit at the time - New Jersey in 2019, San Jose, and Vancouver respectively. Trading those guys was an easy call. Trading Jake? No so easy.

I imagine there are internal discussions around - if you DO trade Jake, what does next year's roster look like? Who are you targeting to bring in and does it make sense? The ideal scenario, IMHO, is to trade Jake to a team and get back a medium return such as Podkolzin+2025 1st, go bottom 10 and keep the pick, then resign Jake on July 1st. That's the best of all worlds. But at the same time, that also has to be what Jake wants. That's something that's been a side note here - he may full well decide that he doesn't want to be here or doesn't want the team-friendly deal that makes sense. He could easily ask for Nylander money and someone will give it to him. If that's the case...what responsibility does Dubas have? Go all in for one last hoorah, or trade him? I don't think people know how tough of a decision that is.

If Comtois is in the clear in the you-know-what then maybe he's worth a league minimum deal. Nearly a PPG in the AHL, and on an AHL-only deal so technically a UFA.

I think compete/intensity is his issue. I can't see Sullivan liking him over Harkins. Which is more a Sullivan issue than Comtois.

 

[PensFutures]

A 1st rounder has limited value because a team that hardly ever has 1st rounders (and if they have them, they are low picks) didn't get a couple right?

I agree with the overall point, but it's bizarre to say a 10-15 pick doesn't have significant value.

That's a fair point, my skepticism with our draft history outside of 1 and 2 overall took over. I guess I also had my blinders on, thinking that pick had any chance of being close to #10 after adding EK to the roster.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

At absolute worst, Dubas consolidated debt with the EK trade. I do that deal every day.

Still think Karlsson has been a godsend. Eller was a great move.

Graves, Acciari have been horrendous. Jarry extension was understandable but too long.

Overall I give the Dube a B- so far, which is disappointing IMO.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Going through all of Dubas's signings, I believe this is how I felt about the signings at the time they happened:

1. Puustinen: whatever, I wasn't impressed with him this season
2. Nieto: whatever, might be a bit too much money but that's what happens in FA
3. Nedeljkovic: neat, I hope he bounces back
4. Jarry: ehhh... I wanted to go with a goalie duo as opposed to him but I get it
5. Graves: alright, I like this but that's a bit much on the money
6. Acciari: again, that's a bit much on the money, but he should bring an element that this team has been missing
7. Eller: nice, I've liked him for many years. but I don't know how he's been recently. hopefully it works out.
8. Shea: who?
9. Koppanen: who?
10. Johnstone: who? oh that's a neat story. congrats to him!
11. Zohorna: welcome back to WBS
12. Hellberg: neat
13. Butcher: also neat
14. Hinostroza: should help with WBS
15. Johnsson: maybe he'll be a sleeper signing for the NHL Pens
16. Pieniniemi: I didn't expect him to be signed so soon. I guess that's a good sign
17. Gruden: sure why not
18. Ty Smith: makes sense and I hope they use him somehow. not sure where he fits in the NHL for the Pens
19. DOC: a decent 4th liner at worst. maybe he'll finally start putting it together at the NHL level with his scoring but it's not looking like it
20. Colin White: I liked him years ago and am hoping he'll be nice depth
21. Samorukov: ok?

 

[Epic Neal Time]

If Guentzel isn't re-signed out of the All Star break, he's as good as gone IMO. It means two things, either:

1. Guentzel doesn't want to re-sign. At which point, you have to trade him. Dubas wouldn't have punted on the talks if he didn't want to keep the trade option on the table.

2. The Penguins can't meet his financial demands. Same as above, trade him.

You just can't treat him as an own rental and let him walk. The team does not have it this year.

 

[Sideline]

If Sid and Geno were 26 and 27 instead of 36 and 37 I'd be way more confident in their ability to will this team into the playoffs. However, they're already performing at or even above what you expect for older stars.

This isn't a burn it down year, but Guentzel isn't going to be the difference between a conference finals and a Cup finals either. JR loves to over pay for "his guys." I say take the 1st and top prospect you know he's will to give and call it a season.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

At absolute worst, Dubas consolidated debt with the EK trade. I do that deal every day.

Still think Karlsson has been a godsend. Eller was a great move.

Graves, Acciari have been horrendous. Jarry extension was understandable but too long.

Overall I give the Dube a B- so far, which is disappointing IMO.

Forgot about Ned and Ludvig. He did inject the team with some youth, though they may all be fringe players, I believe he did say they would need to find some diamonds in the rough.

What bother me more is the non-move of keeping Reardon, to shakeup the coaching staff, even though our PP has been crappy for most of the year. A 15th ranked PP would have put us on track for the playoffs right now, and we would be having a different conversation!

 

[chethejet]

Nice package for Jake. get a top 10 lottery pick as Pens finish top 10 and hope for some lottery luck. Love the center and RD. Now as to moves, DOC can play with Sid. Smith third line guy with one year left is not a killer. Not the best but he is gone after next year. Rust traded after next year, Karlsson gone after next year for a nice package, Point is Pens don't have to tank here. Rebuild the talent base and Yagar, Poulin, and a couple other come in over next 2 years and go from there.

 

[SomeDude]

Yes, the value of the EK trade is a no brainer. Getting rid of negative value contracts alone was likely the price of our 1st.

However, Dubas is making the value worse by sitting on his hands while this team circles the drain on another season due to an embarrassing PP, stale system, and inept coaching staff.

He doesn’t get a pass on the season based on a summer trade. Especially when his other moves, sans Eller, aren’t exactly aging like fine wine.

 

[HandshakeLine]

As I like to remind everyone, coaches do not count against the cap.

 

[Andy99]

What could the Penguins realistically sell if they went in that direction?

There are not a lot of candidates for the Pittsburgh Penguins to realistically move for meaningful returns if they decided to sell at the NHL Trade Deadline this season.

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