Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Turin]

You just need your skill to be better than the other team's physicality. Everyone kept saying "Oh, we'll just hit the 2016 Pens team! That will work!" and the Penguins dummied everyone pretty easily. You need to build your team around who you have as your core and the style that suits them best. The problem with the "gets some scumbags" (which, I totally agree and want as well) is that it's tough to find scumbags who aren't liabilities who are reasonably available. The Wilsons, Tkachuks, and Troubas of the league get snatched up pretty well. Then you have to pay Jeannot like returns for them because they are such a rare commodity.

I think he does. His legacy in Pittsburgh begins with handling the remaining years of Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. If you fail them, you start your legacy as a failure. I don't think Dubas has that level of individual ownership that would make him think that.

3 of 4 top 6 wings, eh?

To be replace by who? Name names.

15 million dollars is the name.

 

[SEALBound]

15 million dollars is the name.

To do what with?

 

[Turin]

Truer words.

This is far more a drag on this team than people seem to be copping to.

EDIT: I'm sorry but these guys just aren't "perfectly fine top six players." You could probably get this kind of production and consistency from a wide swath of guys and at far cheaper. Rust started out on fire. Woo hoo. So did Malkin and it hasn't let him off the hook. Raks was great last year. Well that was last year. He looks like ZAR this year. Smith... lol... bye, bud. We hardly knew ye.

They are "fine" but that's the problem. You got Guentzel and 3 guys who are "fine" but generally don't do anything on their own. Rust is pissing me off, if he was anything like he was in 2022 the Pens would be in fine shape, their powerplay would probably be a lot better too. Shoulda sold high.

To do what with?

Find better players, namely a C so Malkin can be a winger. You can do a lot with 15 million.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Find better players, namely a C so Malkin can be a winger. You can do a lot with 15 million.

Just trade the poor bastard, geez. Would be a kindness at this point.

 

[SEALBound]

Find better players, namely a C so Malkin can be a winger. You can do a lot with 15 million.

Like who? Give me an example.

 

[Turin]

Like who? Give me an example.

 

[SEALBound]

*Snip*

I mean, eliminating $15mil from the top 6 and you can't name a single player you would sign?

2024 NHL Free Agents - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

2024 NHL free agent players who are available to be signed during NHL free agency

www.capfriendly.com

Here's the grim reality of the center market in FA next year. That assumes Stephenson and Wennberg even make it to FA.

FA rarely fixes holes and you tend to over pay for people. $5mil for each is not terrible relative to what they are capable of bringing relative to what prices you have to pay on the open market.

 

[K Fleur]

Jarry just soo good, total bargain signing.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean it's the GMs job to find players that fit.

I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure some AHLer could do 90+ percent of what Raks/Smith are doing this year. Were it not for his hot start I'd lump Rust in there, too. But he's definitely on one of his extended disappearing acts rn.

 

[Come on]

I know you all want Jake traded but, if they do it. It better be for nhl ready prospects and not the shit show of the 23-32 first round pick and 17 year old kid.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The players who could have currently helped on our wings were traded for Jason Zucker, Derick Brassard and Kasperi Kapanen. Not the picks directly, but when you give up 4+ firsts worth of value for 3 guys who have left no residual value, that leaves management hamstrung.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know you all want Jake traded but, if they do it. It better be for nhl ready prospects and not the shit show of the 23-32 first round pick and 17 year old kid.

NHL ready like Kris Beech, Ross Lupaschuk and Michal Sivek NHL-ready?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It's enlightening to read about how many people keep the games on as background noise.
So they don't care enough to watch the games, yet care enough to push back on discussions here, talking about what they're "seeing"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's enlightening to read about how many people keep the games on as background noise.
So they don't care enough to watch the games, yet care enough to push back on discussions here, talking about what they're "seeing"

It's been the same exact thing for 2+ years so it's not like people have to conjure up much in the way of flights of fancy. Honestly one of the only things that is impressive about this team anymore is that they managed to upturn like 40% of the roster and snag the Norris winner and look almost exactly the same if not worse.

That's a consistency of sorts!

 

[Rudy Russo]

The players who could have currently helped on our wings were traded for Jason Zucker, Derick Brassard and Kasperi Kapanen. Not the picks directly, but when you give up 4+ firsts worth of value for 3 guys who have left no residual value, that leaves management hamstrung.

That's all on Rutherford. Zucker was demoted to the 4th line before getting traded to the penguins, and the Leafs were up against the cap before they traded for Kappy. Rutherford didn't need to give up a first round picks for each of those players.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The Penguins aren't going full firesale while Crosby is still in the NHL.

I think they can keep Jake while reshaping the team, regardless of who is coach.

Between now and the deadline, I'd make the following moves:

1. Acquire Elias Lindholm from Calgary (with 50% retained) for Rickard Rakell, Owen Pickering and the Penguins' 2026 2nd round draft pick. Play Lindholm at center and shift Malkin to the wing. Rakell gives Calgary a top six replacement while Pickering and the pick provide future assets.
2. Acquire Anthony Duclair from San Jose for Pierre Olivier-Joseph
3. Acquire Vegas' 2024 3rd round pick for Reilly Smith (reversing the trade from this summer)
4. Acquire Nick Robertson from Toronto for Valterri Puustinen and Chad Ruhwedel.
5. Acquire Ilya Lyubushkin and Adam Henrique (50% retained) from Anaheim for Ty Smith, Radim Zohorna and 2024 3rd round pick
6. Acquire Nick Robertson from Toronto for Valterri Puustinen, Chad Ruhwedel and 2025 4th round pick.

If you think that's a lot of moves, Dubas made the same number of trades for Toronto last year between February 17, 2023 and March 3, 2023. Those included acquiring Ryan O'Reilly, Jake McCabe, Sam Lafferty, and others.

The end result is a cap compliant roster that looks like the following:
Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Malkin-Lindholm-Duclair
Poulin-Henrique-Robertson
DOC-Eller-Acciari
Carter

Pettersson-Karlsson
Lyubushkin-Letang
Graves-Ludvig
Shea

It also includes no long-term commitments. Lindholm, Duclair, Lyubushkin, and Henrique are all free agents. Robertson is a young RFA. You can explore further moves in the offseason.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The Penguins aren't going full firesale while Crosby is still in the NHL.

I think they can keep Jake while reshaping the team, regardless of who is coach.

Between now and the deadline, I'd make the following moves:

1. Acquire Elias Lindholm from Calgary (with 50% retained) for Rickard Rakell, Owen Pickering and the Penguins' 2026 2nd round draft pick. Play Lindholm at center and shift Malkin to the wing. Rakell gives Calgary a top six replacement while Pickering and the pick provide future assets.
2. Acquire Anthony Duclair from San Jose for Pierre Olivier-Joseph
3. Acquire Vegas' 2024 3rd round pick for Reilly Smith (reversing the trade from this summer)
4. Acquire Nick Robertson from Toronto for Valterri Puustinen and Chad Ruhwedel.
5. Acquire Ilya Lyubushkin and Adam Henrique (50% retained) from Anaheim for Ty Smith, Radim Zohorna and 2024 3rd round pick
6. Acquire Nick Robertson from Toronto for Valterri Puustinen, Chad Ruhwedel and 2025 4th round pick.

If you think that's a lot of moves, Dubas made the same number of trades for Toronto last year between February 17, 2023 and March 3, 2023. Those included acquiring Ryan O'Reilly, Jake McCabe, Sam Lafferty, and others.

The end result is a cap compliant roster that looks like the following:
Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Malkin-Lindholm-Duclair
Poulin-Henrique-Robertson
DOC-Eller-Acciari
Carter

Pettersson-Karlsson
Lyubushkin-Letang
Graves-Ludvig
Shea

It also includes no long-term commitments. Lindholm, Duclair, Lyubushkin, and Henrique are all free agents. Robertson is a young RFA. You can explore further moves in the offseason.

I'm liking this because I can't help but admire your effort and creativity.

But I'm thinking we'd have a better chance of seeing Dan Bylsma coming back and coaching this team to it's sixth Cup than even half that happening. They'll probably sign Jake to a ludicrous contract, pick up a goober or two at the deadline and call it a day.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'm liking this because I can't help but admire your effort and creativity.

But I'm thinking we'd have a better chance of seeing Dan Bylsma coming back and coaching this team to it's sixth Cup than even half that happening. They'll probably sign Jake to a ludicrous contract, pick up a goober or two at the deadline and call it a day.

It's entirely possible that they do minimal. But I think they also have a fair amount of flexibility to make moves in the offseason, too.

I think it helps illustrate that things aren't dire from a long-term perspective. This team needs work, but it's not an inescapable hole.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's entirely possible that they do minimal. But I think they also have a fair amount of flexibility to make moves in the offseason, too.

I think it helps illustrate that things aren't dire. This team needs work, but it's not an inescapable hole.

I dunno, man. Wish I had your optimism. Looks pretty dire to me. There doesn't seem to be much will or impetus to do much of anything except continue to find edges to nibble around. They start doing things like actually putting the bench staff on the hot seat (at least) and maybe I'll come around a bit.

EDIT: Oh in the long-term? In the long term hopefully they are swimming in futures from selling off all this junk and/or misused parts.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I dunno, man. Wish I had your optimism. Looks pretty dire to me. There doesn't seem to be much will or impetus to do much of anything except continue to find edges to nibble around. They start doing things like actually putting the bench staff on the hot seat (at least) and maybe I'll come around a bit.

I think it's OK to wait until the deadline, at least, to make an evaluation on the urgency or willingness Dubas has to make moves. I think his aggressive offseason showed he's willing to get creative. No matter how it's worked, the Karlsson trade took serious creativity and finagling to get done.

I know everyone wants moves made ASAP, including the coaches, but this is a long-term project. I can understand being more methodical than a franchise that is in its prime contending years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it's OK to wait until the deadline, at least, to make an evaluation on the urgency or willingness Dubas has to make moves. I think his aggressive offseason showed he's willing to get creative. No matter how it's worked, the Karlsson trade took serious creativity and finagling to get done.

I know everyone wants moves made ASAP, including the coaches, but this is a long-term project. I can understand being more methodical than a franchise that is in its prime contending years.

It's confusing to me that it's long term considering that Sid's time is like *looks at watch* well yesterday, actually.

This is part of the problem. They seem to have no idea where they even ARE in the process.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It's confusing to me that it's long term considering that Sid's time is like *looks at watch* well yesterday, actually.

This is part of the problem. They seem to have no idea where they even ARE in the process.

It's like a building or university master plan. The overall project sometimes takes a decade, with multiple phases having shorter timeframes. You build the new student center first while you're raising funds for the new basketball arena.

That's what this is.

They're in the first phase of a long-term renovation. When Sid and Co. retire, the second phase will kick in which will feature major rebuilding. The final phase will be the reemergence as a contender.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's like a building or university master plan. The overall project sometimes takes a decade, with multiple phases having shorter timeframes. You build the new student center first while you're raising funds for the new basketball arena.

That's what this is.

They're in the first phase of a long-term renovation. When Sid and Co. retire, the second phase will kick in which will feature major rebuilding. The final phase will be the reemergence as a contender.

As much as I like the picture you're painting, here. I think it's a bit more urgent than that. You are going to have to make a choice and make it now. Are they still trying for Sid or are they moving on to the next phase? Honestly they've already delayed far too long on this. You just cannot have both. As much as there is a part of me that loves what you want to see above... it also involves the moving out of whatever futures the team has left. Presumably with the same leadership behind the bench which (much as I know you are loathe to hear it) could well just render the same results all over again, anyway.

Just have that discussion with Sid and blow it up. It doesn't mean you intentionally have to suck. Only that there cannot be anymore dishing of futures in an attempt to build something that just isn't there. I wish I could see what you're seeing but the guts of this team are rotten or way past their best-by dates.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dubas signed half the contracts that have us in this miss.

Suddenly he’s going to start making smart moves?

Toronto lost in the playoffs year after year due to their depth and defense.

Shocker.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Dubas signed half the contracts that have us in this miss.

Suddenly he’s going to start making smart moves?

Toronto lost in the playoffs year after year due to their depth and defense.

Shocker.

I mean to be fair at least some of these signings had all the hallmarks of turning out far better.

Odd that they didn't. Wouldn't you say?