Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Gurglesons]

Hah.
I don't think Sid ever asks out, but I wouldn't blame him if he did. Same with Malkin and Letang.

Oh, I wouldn't care either. I just think all three of these guys care more about retiring as a Penguin than anything else for the remainder of their career.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I just wish the team cared as much about trying to let them end things on a high note because lol, our top 6.

Man, I was cruising draft rankings this morning. This team could really use Cayden Lindstrom. 6'4, 215lb and he can move. Could be a Lindros-lite guy. Was discussing in other threads if it comes down to it, who do you pick Demidov or Lindstrom and honestly, it's a tough choice.

The more I think about it, the more I am on the "waive the white flag this year" send out what you can, then retool next year and hope you get a couple good prospects to add to the system.

Jake for Lekkeimaki + 1st 2025 (the assumption being that our 24 pick is top 10) with the assumption that we could be getting a roster player back.
Smith for a 2nd
Assume one of Nieto or Acciari are sent out for a late, irrelevant pick

In my gushy universe, we end up at the 10OV slot but "win" the lottery to pick higher. Celebrini and Demidov are off the list, and we get Lindstrom. Going into next year with $25mil in cap space and a prospect pool of Yager, Lekkeimaki, and Lindstrom up front would be really, really nice. That could be a future top line for us. Both Yager and Lekkeimaki have nasty shots. More or less, this is a "reset" on last year. Or a "do over" for Dubas. With that cap space, you can do one of two things - 1. Go the Smith route again and take a quality player that is a cap casualty while not having to send cap back. 2. Go the FA route and try to target 1-2 guys to fill holes.

I really like the idea of making the post-Crosby era more physical and tough.

 

[Gurglesons]

I really like the idea of making the post-Crosby era more physical and tough.

I dunno. That's not really our identity as a franchise.

At least when we've been successful.

 

[SEALBound]

I just wish the team cared as much about trying to let them end things on a high note because lol, our top 6.


I really like the idea of making the post-Crosby era more physical and tough.

Balance I would say. I like Florida with Barkov, Tkachuk, and Reinhart with complementary wings. Good skill and physicality balance there. Same with Ottawa's forward group. It may just come down to "who you get" though.

Pretend Chicago gets 2OV. I could see a huge discussion taking place on Demidov vs Lindstrom. I really see that both ways of who you would want to take there.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I dunno. That's not really our identity as a franchise.

At least when we've been successful.

I know but we’re unlikely to get another Lemieux/Jagr/Crosby/Malkin/Letang for a while so get me something more fun to watch and that will drive Mike Sullivan to quitting. Just ice 4 lines of goons.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Oh, I wouldn't care either. I just think all three of these guys care more about retiring as a Penguin than anything else for the remainder of their career.

I think they care more about what people on HFboardz thinks about them.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean the whole “no goons, garbage league” was Mario. Sid wanted goons. Now we have a bunch of Bostonian carpetbaggers for owners, so why not out-Boston Boston?

Club identities change over time, might as well try something new for a few.

 

[Gurglesons]

I know but we’re unlikely to get another Lemieux/Jagr/Crosby/Malkin/Letang for a while so get me something more fun to watch and that will drive Mike Sullivan to quitting. Just ice 4 lines of goons.

lol. whatever gets him fired.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I always liked pests and shit-stirrers more than straight goonage. Goons honestly don't move the needle much on the game IMO. Especially the modern game.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Also big lolz to people talking about the Pittsburgh hockey media trying to stir up clicks on their website to be relevant. You should know by now they know nothing.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Was holding my breath until Bonino cleared, NGL.

He takes faceoffs and PKs.

He should probably start in OT.

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

Can we just give Geno a very skilled Russian teammate. Then some hard nose worker bee with non stop motor. Thx.

Sully learning of a Russian being traded for to be put on Geno line….

 

[HandshakeLine]

lol. whatever gets him fired.

can't bench the rookie when the whole team is rookies.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I always liked pests and shit-stirrers more than straight goonage. Goons honestly don't move the needle much on the game IMO. Especially the modern game.

As long as we don't have Sids and Genos to catch elbow retaliations, Cookes and Ruutus are funny

 

[HandshakeLine]

I always liked pests and shit-stirrers more than straight goonage. Goons honestly don't move the needle much on the game IMO. Especially the modern game.

I mean, in the post-instigator era, a pest/shit stirrer is way more valuable. Give me a Jarkko Ruutu/Claude Lemeiux type for this roster, please.

Actually, our power play is so bad, please don't, we'd just be even worse off if we got more time on the man advantage.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

As long as we don't have Sids and Genos to catch elbow retaliations, Cookes and Ruutus are funny

I mean... that happens anyway. The fans, league and refs just laugh and shrug.

 

[Andy99]

Sid will probably be the last one to realize that won't happen in Pittsburgh.

He probably thinks with the right moves they will be right back in it.

If Sid truly cared about the Pens, he’d get himself traded this off-season for a boatload of picks/players and then re-sign the following season to give it a go with the new younger team lol

 

[HandshakeLine]

As long as we don't have Sids and Genos to catch elbow retaliations, Cookes and Ruutus are funny

You need to pair those guys with legit dirty players to have the best effect, tbh. Under Mario, that was kind of a no-go (though he did allow some really surprisingly dirty guys on the team.)

Again, my platonic ideal of a player of the Pens was always a prime-Tocchet type; a guy who can ride shotgun on a scoring line, but would also opportunistically destroy someone with a borderline hit or drop the gloves if he thought they had crossed the line.

I don't give a shit about "play to the whistle" clean game platitudes.

If Sid truly cared about the Pens, he’d get himself traded this off-season for a boatload of picks/players and then re-sign the following season to give it a go with the new younger team lol

Ah yes, the Marc Bergevin.

 

[The Old Master]

The "Russian factor" is always something to consider but I think Demidov is good enough to overcome that. I don't think GMs will be on the fence. The only thing I could see is perhaps team needs. Like if Anaheim gets 2OV, they may opt for Silayev, Levshunov, or Dickenson to replace Drydale given what they now have at forward.

Yes, with the season we are having, being gushy and dreaming about big happenings at the draft with a high pick is one of the rare forms of excitement.

Reminds me of 2020 when we were on the block to potentially get the 1OV that went to NYR. Who took Lafreinere . But I remember dreaming heavily of the 1OV and either taking him or trading down. Given how crapy that season turned out, that was one of the fun parts about summer.

As of now, the potential return for Jake and what kind of prospect we could get is about as fun as we get.

any Russian that gets drafted this year will be a blind pick (no gm has seen them play, they are just using film) and on a normal year i wouldn't mind them tanking, i expect that next year they will be worse. plus, having traded one of those chances at a top pick make me nervous about which pick we give up.
,

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pixies, let's take a closer look at that 9 game point streak and exactly what he is producing. Karlsson scored one goal, 3 primary, and 6 secondary assists during this "streak". Some of the secondary assists were as meaningless as his pass to Malkin before Graves got the lucky rebound off the keeper's backside in Vegas. But, thems the rules, and as silly as secondary assists are, that counted.

Another sometimes silly stat is +/-. During this same streak EK65 was a Mnus-5. Trying to find some positive I recall that maybe a month ago, Penguins avg. expected G's /20 with Karlsson was a league leading 1.66. Getting 24 minutes / night is a good thing, too, I guess.

I was under no illusion we would see anything approaching the production Karlsson delivered last season, for any number of good reasons, but considering the cost of acquisition, his cap hit, and his propensity to make dipshit plays that even leaves Letang scratching his head, the EK65 Penguin's experience has been a rather profound disappointment to date. Sure, coaching has something to do with that, maybe a lot, but so does the player. It isn't only the Pittsburgh idiot media that has noticed this, out of market writers have written about this, as well.

We can be sure about one thing - Karlsson wouldn't turn back towards his own zone and throw a haphazardly pass near an open net and then after when talking about it, barely take accountability for it with some "I guess..." comments after each one.

Karlsson suffers from the same fate most that come to the Pens do when they're highly productive players that are now stuck under Sullivan's brilliant system. I don't think Karlsson has been that bad, I get some don't like him and didn't think he was necessary and the former is just petty the latter is maybe not wrong. The contracts Dubas moved were good as Sullivan wasn't using them properly anyway, but to get Karlsson and see how Sullivan is f***ing that up should give him pause that now even his moves are looking terrible under Sully like moves JR and Hextall made (Ignore the Hextall comments you lot want to make, it is what it is).

Karlsson is way off his pace, he's on a pace that would be Letang's career high-area of points. You should understand how f***ing comical it is to shit all over a player that on his off season, it's the best season you'd likely get production wise out of Letang.

any Russian that gets drafted this year will be a blind pick (no gm has seen them play, they are just using film) and on a normal year i wouldn't mind them tanking, i expect that next year they will be worse. plus, having traded one of those chances at a top pick make me nervous about which pick we give up.
,

You don't think European scouts are still going there to watch games?

The thing to remember is to never have hope for anyone we take since they will never have a future under this coach unless Dubas starts drafting 26yr old overagers that have been skipped in the draft for 8-9yrs.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What's up with people crapping on secondary assists, lately? lol

 

[The Old Master]

You don't think European scouts are still going there to watch games?

most gm's like to go to the tournaments and see how the players stack up against each other. with the war most of the top Russian players didn't get out of Russia.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

most gm's like to go to the tournaments and see how the players stack up against each other. with the war most of the top Russian players didn't get out of Russia.

I still think Euro based scouts still get to view the entire games there though whereas the ones here might only watch an edited together video of things they wanted to see out of the player, you know what I mean? It might not be LIVE viewing, but getting an entire game, then editing it to watch just the player is still doable.

Not that I condone watching players from a country at war or whatever, but there are ways.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I can't stand the narrative of, "should the Penguins be sellers or buyers?"

They need to be better. Full-stop. Addition by subtraction in some cases, so sellers. Adding legitimate young talent via trades, including high draft picks, so buyers.

If Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Karlsson want to be Penguins, then they will accept the moves if they improve the team. They are all smart people, so they know this roster is just not good enough. They also know that the GM has precious few assets to work with.

Whatever happens, this team CLEARLY needs to get YOUNGER. These are not the 2002 Detroit Red Wings. This team cannot compete as presently constructed. So, trading away Pierre-Olivier Joseph (the second/third-youngest player on the team) is nonsensical. Start with veterans, please. And sure, if Guentzel wants to stay and the contract does not damage the future of the team, you can re-sign him too. Top scoring wingers are hard to find. This team (arguably) only has one. But, if you can improve the top six by actually trading Guentzel, then go ahead. I think it makes more sense to try to move the other top-six options: Rakell, Smith and of course Rust (which is tricky because of the contract language in his deal). It also makes too much sense to move Eller, who should have value, Nieto (Edm nearly signed him last summer) if healthy and Ruhwedel (I doubt he has value beyond what Mike Sullivan sees, but perhaps somebody else thinks like him). Nedeljkovic is also a potential trade chip, but timing is always important when moving a goaltender.

If this team got younger, chances are they get better. The veteran core has to believe, and of course the coach is a non-believer, but Dubas has a chance to do some good things here.

Don't eff it up.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I can't stand the narrative of, "should the Penguins be sellers or buyers?"

They need to be better. Full-stop. Addition by subtraction in some cases, so sellers. Adding legitimate young talent via trades, including high draft picks, so buyers.

If Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Karlsson want to be Penguins, then they will accept the moves if they improve the team. They are all smart people, so they know this roster is just not good enough. They also know that the GM has precious few assets to work with.

Whatever happens, this team CLEARLY needs to get YOUNGER. These are not the 2002 Detroit Red Wings. This team cannot compete as presently constructed. So, trading away Pierre-Olivier Joseph (the second/third-youngest player on the team) is nonsensical. Start with veterans, please. And sure, if Guentzel wants to stay and the contract does not damage the future of the team, you can re-sign him too. Top scoring wingers are hard to find. This team (arguably) only has one. But, if you can improve the top six by actually trading Guentzel, then go ahead. I think it makes more sense to try to move the other top-six options: Rakell, Smith and of course Rust (which is tricky because of the contract language in his deal). It also makes too much sense to move Eller, who should have value, Nieto (Edm nearly signed him last summer) if healthy and Ruhwedel (I doubt he has value beyond what Mike Sullivan sees, but perhaps somebody else thinks like him). Nedeljkovic is also a potential trade chip, but timing is always important when moving a goaltender.

If this team got younger, chances are they get better. The veteran core has to believe, and of course the coach is a non-believer, but Dubas has a chance to do some good things here.

Don't eff it up.

To be buyers or sellers and still have the same problematic coach is the main issue with this team. There is no addition or subtraction that makes this team better because the coach that is the problem, remains the problem.