Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[HandshakeLine]

I don't understand the issue people have with FSG, unless it's just being upset about the Sullivan contract.

The 2022-23 season was their first full season as owners. They ended the year by firing the President of Hockey Operations and the General Manager, hired Dubas and expanded the size of the front office staff, and made substantial improvements to the arena.

Dubas has been on the job for seven months and just half of the season. I know everyone wants Sullivan canned yesterday, but it's pretty common for new management to evaluate someone over the course of the season and then make a decision on their future. You want to see them handle various challenges.

Jim Rutherford, by the way, did the same with Bruce Boudreau before hiring Tocchet in Vancouver. Rutherford was brought in on Dec. 9, 2021, four days after Boudreau was hired. Rutherford didn't bring in Tocchet until Jan. 22, 2023. Boudreau was 50-40-13 with Vancouver.

If you want to rip FSG for the Sullivan contract, that's fine. But the rest of their ownership has been pretty much normal.

Hiring someone who doesn’t understand the sport to oversee your acquisition is really really dumb. I’m not seeing any reason to defend that, but go off, I’m willing to hear your take why we should allow FSG years to figure out the game of hockey.

I mean it’s the same model as Charles Wang!

“I mean, do people actually like watching this style of hockey?”

Seems pretty clear to me.

Yeah I loved the 2015-2016 team too. But this kind of hockey that we’re playing now is not it, no matter how much we wish it was. That’s the point.

We cannot play that kind of hockey with this roster. We have overhauled it numerous times to try to get back there and failed. So, again, do you like watching what we’re playing now?

 

[edog37]

Hiring someone who doesn’t understand the sport to oversee your acquisition is really really dumb. I’m not seeing any reason to defend that, but go off, I’m willing to hear your take why we should allow FSG years to figure out the game of hockey.

I mean it’s the same model as Charles Wang!


Yeah I loved the 2015-2016 team too. But this kind of hockey that we’re playing now is not it, no matter how much we wish it was. That’s the point.

We cannot play that kind of hockey with this roster. We have overhauled it numerous times to try to get back there and failed. So, again, do you like watching what we’re playing now?

Bro, it’s the same system they played back then, but as I pointed out, they no longer have the horses to do it. I don’t mind the system, it’s the players I have issue with.

 

[Pens1566]

I mean the only significant thing he can do is fire sullivan and at this rate sullivan could lose 10 games in a row and they would blame geno

I'd add trading Jake to that as well. I think those are the two obvious "significant" things he could do at this point.

He could always do something extra crazy though ...

 

[HandshakeLine]

Bro, it’s the same system they played back then, but as I pointed out, they no longer have the horses to do it. I don’t mind the system, it’s the players I have issue with.

Which again is not the point I am making. We no longer have the horses, why are we even pretending we can execute the system? We should be changing the system, because no overhaul of the roster (and we have had 3 significant ones) can run the “system”.

 

[HandshakeLine]

To put it another way, the system relies on not only rolling 4 lines of fast players, it needs the star players to drive that. Letang and Malkin can’t really anymore, not like they used to. Crosby kinda can, but Jake and Rust are shells of what they were during the B2B playoff runs. We don’t have a 4th line as good as those lines. None of the centers can really turn mediocre wingers into those opportunistic guys the way they did in 2015-2017.

IMO it is silly to talk about adding players to make the system work because there is nobody we could add to make it work without completely overhauling the roster again, and even then there’s the huge elephant in the room which is that players we do add to the roster end up worse here. At some point you just have to realize that no matter how well a system works in paper and in a vacuum, we just can’t seem to execute that faster style of play anymore. Hell, we added the perfect players in many respects and look at how we’re playing now.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Regarding all this hiring and front office talk, may I remind yinz:

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Regarding all this hiring and front office talk, may I remind yinz:

Plus the dude can make good ale to help wash down the dark times.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Karlsson is having a career average season for him so far.

He's averaged 0.82 points per game for his career. He's at 0.75 right now with 33 points in 44 games.

His career shooting percentage is 6.9. He's at 6.7 this season.

If anything, he's probably had a few points disappear because guys haven't converted chances.

Can he be more decisive, erase some mistakes, and be better on the power play? Sure. But he's far from a problem.

His goals/game is also down 17% fwiw from his career avg.. I didn't describe his play as a problem, just as a disappointment in terms of production. Read the posts in this forum post-trade, there was a lot of jubilation. Perhaps expectations were unwarranted or over the top? Is this the player you expected?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Regarding all this hiring and front office talk, may I remind yinz:

You were due for a big break. Congrats my man.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

His goals/game is also down 17% fwiw from his career avg.. I didn't describe his play as a problem, just as a disappointment in terms of production. Read the posts in this forum post-trade, there was a lot of jubilation. Perhaps expectations were unwarranted or over the top? Is this the player you expected?

The main thing is that people just wanted to have fun watching this team again. We wanted someone who's fast, hungry and skilled.
Plus unloading the Granlund 5 mil x 2 was a nice feeling at the time.

Karlsson's pretty much met my expectations. I try to keep those realistic, based on average career play. Not his fault that his price tag is astronomical and next to impossible for him to live up to. He was never very good defensively, so giving him 10 mil per was excessive.
Plus with the Petry retention, we need him to play up to an 11.5M value, and that's an absurdly tall order.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You were due for a big break. Congrats my man.

Love to see local kids do well

 

[McGroarty2]

Not sure if it's been discussed but if Bonino were claimed and it resulted in Carter as 13th F and Acciari taking Carter's RW spot and one of White or Harkins sent down, would you do it?

Guentzel Crosby Rust
O'Connor Malkin Puustinen
Poulin Eller Rakell
Harkins Bonino Acciari
Carter

 

[pistolpete11]

Not sure if it's been discussed but if Bonino were claimed and it resulted in Carter as 13th F and Acciari taking Carter's RW spot and one of White or Harkins sent down, would you do it?

Guentzel Crosby Rust
O'Connor Malkin Puustinen
Poulin Eller Rakell
Harkins Bonino Acciari
Carter

No. Bones is shot. He has less points than Carter and is a team worst -12.

 

[PensFutures]

Not sure if it's been discussed but if Bonino were claimed and it resulted in Carter as 13th F and Acciari taking Carter's RW spot and one of White or Harkins sent down, would you do it?

Guentzel Crosby Rust
O'Connor Malkin Puustinen
Poulin Eller Rakell
Harkins Bonino Acciari
Carter

No. Bonino is dunzo.

 

[Andy99]

We might be able to nab one or two of these guys for Jake…

Scout's Analysis: Prospects of interest on six 'buying' teams in NHL trade market

Prospects and draft picks are the currency buying teams have to offer around the NHL trade deadline, but not all have the same depth. Scout Jason Bukala looks at six potential buyers, and the top prospects they may have to consider parting with in any big move.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Andy99]

On EK…

 

[Turin]

On EK…

Risk? Perish the thought. No fun allowed

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Literally any coach with a brain knows you just let a player of Karlsson's caliber just play on instinct out on the ice and figure out a way to cover his defensive issues with other players. I dunno. Maybe I'm a Jack Adams winner in the making.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Literally any coach with a brain knows you just let a player of Karlsson's caliber just play on instinct out on the ice and figure out a way to cover his defensive issues with other players. I dunno. Maybe I'm a Jack Adams winner in the making.

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

San Jose sucked for years with Karlsson, including before they started tanking. I am really not sure it is that simple. When I see how Carolina uses Burns I don't see crazy improvisation out there.

None of this is to say Sully doesn't suck, my pitchfork is still lit etc

 

[SomeDude]

After the season is too late to make changes

I think a lot of people are forgetting Sid has 2 years left and they can negotiate with him after this season.

Another missed playoffs is certainly going to creep into his mind when thinking about the end of his career.

 

[Andy99]

I think a lot of people are forgetting Sid has 2 years left and they can negotiate with him after this season.

Another missed playoffs is certainly going to creep into his mind when thinking about the end of his career.

One year left after this, not two…

 

[SomeDude]

One year left after this, not two…

Yes, he currently has 2 years. This year and next. That’s what I meant.

You can re-sign a player when they have 1 year left and FSG already said they prioritize a new deal for Sid.

2 consecutive years of non-playoff hockey and no realistic improvements in sight, you can certainly expect that to factor into Sid’s future plans.

To sum it up, Dubas needs to at least try to fix this now. It can’t wait. Just fire the friggen coach. It’s not that hard. How many teams have fired coaches now? How many of them have improved since firing said coaches? I’d wager all or most.

 

[Andy99]

Yes, he currently has 2 years. This year and next. That’s what I meant.

You can re-sign a player when they have 1 year left and FSG already said they prioritize a new deal for Sid.

2 consecutive years of non-playoff hockey and no realistic improvements in sight, you can certainly expect that to favor into Sid’s future plans.

To sum it up, Dubas needs to at least try to fix this now. It can’t wait. Just fire the friggen coach. It’s not that hard. How many teams have fired coach’s now? How many of them have improved since firing said coaches? I’d wager all or most.

Honestly Dubas needs to have a sit down w Sid after the season and after he trades Jake lol and see if he wants to be here…he’s done so much for the organization that he deserves to decide if he wants to be here for the rest of the time he plays or be traded elsewhere…unfortunately I don’t think Sullivan will be fired…last chance is during the break next week and after that it won’t happen at all

 

[Malkinstheman]

I really dont think theres any risk of Sid asking out. Dude has 3 cups and made the playoffs for 16 straight years. He has the chance to be part of the first ever trio in sports history to play 20 years together. I dont know, maybe its just cope from me but I cant see Sid becoming a mercenary at this point.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sid's never gonna ask to be dealt. He very well may just retire when his deal's up knowing this team's best is years in the rear view and he's facing down some real lean seasons. Especially if Jake's dealt (which he should be, even if it makes Sid sad, sorry).

I don't really care about some media-speak stuff about wanting to play as long as he's having fun from a dude who has been programmed like a robot to spout cliches since he was 10 years old. We'll see if he's still having a ton of fun playing on a team maybe netting a top-10 pick as a, what, 39 year old?