Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Ginormousthumbs]

It’s really simple for Dubas. Sack the entire staff.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Oh, for sure. I said before it screams "Rich guys with too much money who must own *more* things". They're dipshits when it comes to hockey who just bought the team cuz they felt like it, simple as that.

Could be worse, I guess. FSG could be the Pegulas or Jerry Jones.

Why aim so low? James Dolan is the blue chip standard for POS owners. Just ask Charles Oakley!

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I disagree. The 20-21 Penguins were fun to watch. Won the division. The 21-22 Penguins hit 100+ points.

Last years team was rough, but to be honest it was more entertaining than this year. Zucker alone brought energy worth checking in on every night.

The enjoyable players this year have been DOC, Crosby, and Puustinen. That's about it lol.

To be honest, I get a kick out of the low-drama, generally well-executed efficiency and professionalism Eller delivers.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Letang was a badass in 21-22 as well, though.

I have plenty bad to say about the coach/system whatever but Tanger seems largely unaffected if not downright thriving at times.

He's an idiot that plays his game no matter what.

He was born and bred under the Bylsma era, for him to be unaffected by Sullivan, he was made for it.

The funny part is we are being critical of EK65 and he is on a 9 game point streak. That's how boring this team is.

That's what I didn't get about the hate he was getting by f***ing idiots like Kingerski, Rossi, Yohe and the rest of that clown posse. They will shit all over Smith for not producing and won't touch Rust for it, but will trash EK while he's producing under a shit system.

 

[Nakawick]

The only hope we have is our PP getting above 20% the rest of the way and or a new coach. Unless some kind of hockey trade presents itself.

 

[Andy99]

You think a year older Geno and Sid would do better with less help?

Younger players would be more help…I mean look at Rust, Smith and Rakell: not much help there

 

[Ryder71]

sit tight

Hope you're right, for the long term viability of the team that'd be great!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Younger players would be more help…I mean look at Rust, Smith and Rakell: not much help there

Don't worry mate, Colin White is clearly the answer, not Puustinen

He moves Malkin to wing for 3 shifts - usually at the 17 minute mark of a period when everyone is tired the ice is f'd and then changes his mind again. Dude is adverse to anything outside of his 'pairs' theory I'm sure he'll write a book about some day.

This board could construct and ice a better team than that organization. Moving Malkin to wing HAS been talked about by several of us for several years now. Revolutionary? No, we have f***ing eyeballs and watch the team year in and year out.
- We've noticed the wheels falling off for Geno. We've noticed that he can't carry the mail but for 3 shifts a game. We've noticed that the two things that he's still elite on is his shot and passing.....so uhh...wing with Sid makes a F ton of sense. Trading for a support piece makes a F ton of sense.....but nah - Reilly Smith + paid local media mouthpieces talking about all their chemistry is the route we take. Then just continue to double down on it.

So yeah, now more than ever - cash in on Jake. Recoup his production + (because I think Sid's numbers would also boost) by shifting Geno up to L1. You now have an elite line 1 in hockey and are left with the hole in L2 - that you frankly had before because Geno can't carry those guys. Bring in that 2C of Kadri or whomever and revamp that way. As Sid/Geno age they could shift to L2 at some point or whatever. But for the next 2.5 years they could absolutely anchor a dangerous line in the NHL.

The funniest thing is that his pairs theory is really only for Crosby's line and the 4th line.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I love that we lucked into a worse ownership than the f***ing Kraken.

I don't understand the issue people have with FSG, unless it's just being upset about the Sullivan contract.

The 2022-23 season was their first full season as owners. They ended the year by firing the President of Hockey Operations and the General Manager, hired Dubas and expanded the size of the front office staff, and made substantial improvements to the arena.

Dubas has been on the job for seven months and just half of the season. I know everyone wants Sullivan canned yesterday, but it's pretty common for new management to evaluate someone over the course of the season and then make a decision on their future. You want to see them handle various challenges.

Jim Rutherford, by the way, did the same with Bruce Boudreau before hiring Tocchet in Vancouver. Rutherford was brought in on Dec. 9, 2021, four days after Boudreau was hired. Rutherford didn't bring in Tocchet until Jan. 22, 2023. Boudreau was 50-40-13 with Vancouver.

If you want to rip FSG for the Sullivan contract, that's fine. But the rest of their ownership has been pretty much normal.

 

[The Old Master]

You could have a Rust - Sid - Geno line 1 for the same price as a non-upgraded Guentzel and I could make a very, very solid argument for Geno landing 40 goals with Sid to do most of the zone work.

as much as i would like to see Geno moved to wing, Geno never was/ is not now/or ever will be the type of winger Sid wants to play with on a regular basis. so that thinking needs to stop.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don't understand the issue people have with FSG, unless it's just being upset about the Sullivan contract.

The 2022-23 season was their first full season as owners. They ended the year by firing the President of Hockey Operations and the General Manager, hired Dubas and expanded the size of the front office staff, and made substantial improvements to the arena.

Dubas has been on the job for seven months and just half of the season. I know everyone wants Sullivan canned yesterday, but it's pretty common for new management to evaluate someone over the course of the season and then make a decision on their future. You want to see them handle various challenges.

Jim Rutherford, by the way, did the same with Bruce Boudreau before hiring Tocchet in Vancouver. Rutherford was brought in on Dec. 9, 2021, four days after Boudreau was hired. Rutherford didn't bring in Tocchet until Jan. 22, 2023. Boudreau was 50-40-13 with Vancouver.

If you want to rip FSG for the Sullivan contract, that's fine. But the rest of their ownership has been pretty much normal.

I have not problem with FSG outside of Sullivans contract. That should have been the new GM's decision and they overstepped.

The Boudreau thing is an awful comparison. Boudreau got a season because he was just hired.

Sullivan has been awful for at least 3 years. Waiting was not needed. Honestly Hextall should have fired Sullivan after his first year.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

as much as i would like to see Geno moved to wing, Geno never was/ is not now/or ever will be the type of winger Sid wants to play with on a regular basis. so that thinking needs to stop.

Malkin and Sid together is less effective than people think.

Malkin needs to move to wing, but it should be with a strong two-way center who doesn't need the puck on his stick.

 

[The Old Master]

just find a way to get us the 1st pick this year and that would go a long way to fix it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I have not problem with FSG outside of Sullivans contract. That should have been the new GM's decision and they overstepped.

The Boudreau thing is an awful comparison. Boudreau got a season because he was just hired.

Sullivan has been awful for at least 3 years. Waiting was not needed. Honestly Hextall should have fired Sullivan after his first year.

The Pens fanbase may believe Sullivan has been awful for the last three years or so, but Dubas has no idea what kinds of factors were in play that led to the team's performance. Dubas was focused on Toronto. He has no material knowledge if Sullivan has been a terrible coach, if Rutherford lost his focus, if previous ownership meddled, if current ownership meddled, if Hextall was just terrible at his job or hand his hands tied, or if the players just fell short.

That's why conducting your own review of the situation and doing your own evaluation of the staff is so important as a manager, especially when you're talking about future Hall of Famers and a coach who won back-to-back Stanley Cups.

I will be stunned if Dubas does not make significant changes, with most of them likely coming after the season.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Pens fanbase may believe Sullivan has been awful for the last three years or so, but Dubas has no idea what kinds of factors were in play that led to the team's performance. Dubas was focused on Toronto. He has no material knowledge if Sullivan has been a terrible coach, if Rutherford lost his focus, if previous ownership meddled, if current ownership meddled, if Hextall was just terrible at his job or hand his hands tied, or if the players just fell short.

That's why conducting your own review of the situation and doing your own evaluation of the staff is so important as a manager, especially when you're talking about future Hall of Famers and a coach who won back-to-back Stanley Cups.

I will be stunned if Dubas does not make significant changes, with most of them likely coming after the season.

prepare to be stunned.

 

[Darren McCord]

I will be stunned if Dubas does not make significant changes, with most of them likely coming after the season.

I mean the only significant thing he can do is fire sullivan and at this rate sullivan could lose 10 games in a row and they would blame geno

 

[BusinessGoose]

After the season is too late to make changes

 

[Honour Over Glory]

as much as i would like to see Geno moved to wing, Geno never was/ is not now/or ever will be the type of winger Sid wants to play with on a regular basis. so that thinking needs to stop.

Geno being wing on his own line is the answer. Not the two headed desperation move that does nothing these days.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The Pens fanbase may believe Sullivan has been awful for the last three years or so, but Dubas has no idea what kinds of factors were in play that led to the team's performance. Dubas was focused on Toronto. He has no material knowledge if Sullivan has been a terrible coach, if Rutherford lost his focus, if previous ownership meddled, if current ownership meddled, if Hextall was just terrible at his job or hand his hands tied, or if the players just fell short.

That's why conducting your own review of the situation and doing your own evaluation of the staff is so important as a manager, especially when you're talking about future Hall of Famers and a coach who won back-to-back Stanley Cups.

I will be stunned if Dubas does not make significant changes, with most of them likely coming after the season.

I mean, the bolded is just flat out not true. People who are taking a new job going into it prepared about what they're getting themselves into, especially when they've got multiple offers.

If Dubas truly came into Pittsburgh without an iota of an idea what part of Sullivan's coaching has contributed to the Pens' failures, then he's a complete idiot. You don't sign somewhere without doing your due diligence first.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

That's what I didn't get about the hate he was getting by f***ing idiots like Kingerski, Rossi, Yohe and the rest of that clown posse. They will shit all over Smith for not producing and won't touch Rust for it, but will trash EK while he's producing under a shit system.

The funny part is we are being critical of EK65 and he is on a 9 game point streak. That's how boring this team is.

Pixies, let's take a closer look at that 9 game point streak and exactly what he is producing. Karlsson scored one goal, 3 primary, and 6 secondary assists during this "streak". Some of the secondary assists were as meaningless as his pass to Malkin before Graves got the lucky rebound off the keeper's backside in Vegas. But, thems the rules, and as silly as secondary assists are, that counted.

Another sometimes silly stat is +/-. During this same streak EK65 was a Mnus-5. Trying to find some positive I recall that maybe a month ago, Penguins avg. expected G's /20 with Karlsson was a league leading 1.66. Getting 24 minutes / night is a good thing, too, I guess.

I was under no illusion we would see anything approaching the production Karlsson delivered last season, for any number of good reasons, but considering the cost of acquisition, his cap hit, and his propensity to make dipshit plays that even leaves Letang scratching his head, the EK65 Penguin's experience has been a rather profound disappointment to date. Sure, coaching has something to do with that, maybe a lot, but so does the player. It isn't only the Pittsburgh idiot media that has noticed this, out of market writers have written about this, as well.

 

[BusinessGoose]

What are the other pens dmen goals, assists and +/- over the last 9 games?

Maybe adjust for TOI, too.

Then we'll know if EK is a cause or symptom.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pixies, let's take a closer look at that 9 game point streak and exactly what he is producing. Karlsson scored one goal, 3 primary, and 6 secondary assists during this "streak". Some of the secondary assists were as meaningless as his pass to Malkin before Graves got the lucky rebound off the keeper's backside in Vegas. But, thems the rules, and as silly as secondary assists are, that counted.

Another sometimes silly stat is +/-. During this same streak EK65 was a Mnus-5. Trying to find some positive I recall that maybe a month ago, Penguins avg. expected G's /20 with Karlsson was a league leading 1.66. Getting 24 minutes / night is a good thing, too, I guess.

I was under no illusion we would see anything approaching the production Karlsson delivered last season, for any number of good reasons, but considering the cost of acquisition, his cap hit, and his propensity to make dipshit plays that even leaves Letang scratching his head, the EK65 Penguin's experience has been a rather profound disappointment to date. Sure, coaching has something to do with that, maybe a lot, but so does the player. It isn't only the Pittsburgh idiot media that has noticed this, out of market writers have written about this, as well.

I'm the guy who defended every mistake Kris Letting ever made for 10+ years. So probably the wrong tree to bark up.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I mean, the bolded is just flat out not true. People who are taking a new job going into it prepared about what they're getting themselves into, especially when they've got multiple offers.

If Dubas truly came into Pittsburgh without an iota of an idea what part of Sullivan's coaching has contributed to the Pens' failures, then he's a complete idiot. You don't sign somewhere without doing your due diligence first.

There is research and due diligence, and then there is seeing things firsthand.

Dubas absolutely did his research. He probably looked at past scouting reports of what the Pens had in their organization and at the NHL level, used contacts to learn what others thought of the coaching staff, etc.

We do the same when we're looking at jobs, right? Ask around, look for red flags, see who you know who might know something more than the HR folks are telling you.

But there is nothing like getting in and seeing things yourself. And I can count numerous times in my own life when I've joined an organization or taken a new job and had been told by outsiders, "Yeah, it's a good place, but Person A has their fingerprints all over it and screws it up," only to find out Person B is the one making the decisions and Person A is the scapegoat. And, of course, sometimes Person A does just suck.

And that's why you do your own evaluations, especially as a manager. Do your research, be prepared, and then let people show their true selves after you're in position to make decisions.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Pixies, let's take a closer look at that 9 game point streak and exactly what he is producing. Karlsson scored one goal, 3 primary, and 6 secondary assists during this "streak". Some of the secondary assists were as meaningless as his pass to Malkin before Graves got the lucky rebound off the keeper's backside in Vegas. But, thems the rules, and as silly as secondary assists are, that counted.

Another sometimes silly stat is +/-. During this same streak EK65 was a Mnus-5. Trying to find some positive I recall that maybe a month ago, Penguins avg. expected G's /20 with Karlsson was a league leading 1.66. Getting 24 minutes / night is a good thing, too, I guess.

I was under no illusion we would see anything approaching the production Karlsson delivered last season, for any number of good reasons, but considering the cost of acquisition, his cap hit, and his propensity to make dipshit plays that even leaves Letang scratching his head, the EK65 Penguin's experience has been a rather profound disappointment to date. Sure, coaching has something to do with that, maybe a lot, but so does the player. It isn't only the Pittsburgh idiot media that has noticed this, out of market writers have written about this, as well.

Karlsson is having a career average season for him so far.

He's averaged 0.82 points per game for his career. He's at 0.75 right now with 33 points in 44 games.

His career shooting percentage is 6.9. He's at 6.7 this season.

If anything, he's probably had a few points disappear because guys haven't converted chances.

Can he be more decisive, erase some mistakes, and be better on the power play? Sure. But he's far from a problem.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I'm the guy who defended every mistake Kris Letting ever made for 10+ years. So probably the wrong tree to bark up.

all I know is HFboards autocorrect discriminates against Penguin fans...