Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

Status
Not open for further replies.

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
53,040
34,843
But if we're not supposed to give players security, why are we handing out cushy security to the shift manager behind the bench? :laugh:

I don't think Sully's a bad coach, he can be great on occasion, and average other times. But I just don't see how security squares with the reality of coaching in the NHL.

But but…he’s a shoo-in for the Jack Adams …lol

 
  • Like
Reactions: Pens x

CheckingLineCenter

Registered User
Aug 10, 2018
9,448
10,296
But if we're not supposed to give players security, why are we handing out cushy security to the shift manager behind the bench? :laugh:

I don't think Sully's a bad coach, he can be great on occasion, and average other times. But I just don't see how security squares with the reality of coaching in the NHL.
I mean it’s just not the same. Management/coaches arent subject to the cap, age or injuries :laugh:

The upside is you make your guy happy and show confidence in him (and can also demand a higher level of performance). The downside is just FSG’s money- and while I’m sure they don’t ever just hand out a single dollar w/o reason, big picture a hockey coach’s buyout isn’t a end of the world number for them. Just saying in terms of risk/reward it makes sense from an upper level management perspective.

Not saying it’s the right or wrong move, because I cannot predict the future. Could definitely see Sullivan already being past his expiration date.

Edit: on some level, this is all overthinking. I think most of it is just Sully probably wanted a raise, and got one lmao
 
Last edited:

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Feb 16, 2013
17,456
5,488
The Low Country, SC
What constant influx of “talented youth”?

Pat Maroon?
Kevin Shattenkirk?
Blake Coleman?
Barclay Goodrow?

Tampa was the 5th and 6th oldest team
In the league when they got their cups.

Do you need me list all of the homegrown talent that have played prominent roles within the last 5-6 years? yowza
 

Deport Ogie

Registered User
Jun 30, 2014
2,518
2,968
Suburbia
1) That's my complaint, this team has become so easily predictable through adhering to the status quo.
2) I'm not trying to be right, I just don't get the point of a wasted decade so that we can give guys 5+year swan song. I'm just ahead of the curve, trust me; Most will be joining me with my same complaints in the upcoming months/years.

This team literally overhauled 50% of it's defense core to provide better balance. May work, may not, but what you're saying isn't "stop adhering to the status quo!" what you're saying is "stop adhering to the status quo in the way I specifically want!"

The wonderful thing about being an eternal pessimist is that eventually, yes you will be right. It's easy to continuously predict the core falling off a cliff because it will happen. If it's this year, you get to parrot how smart you are! If it's not, you can just say it again next offseason! It's honestly a decent strategy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tasty Biscuits

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
49,305
33,955
Praha, CZ
I mean it’s just not the same. Management/coaches arent subject to the cap, age or injuries :laugh:

The upside is you make your guy happy and show confidence in him (and can also demand a higher level of performance). The downside is just FSG’s money- and while I’m sure they don’t ever just hand out a single dollar w/o reason, big picture a hockey coach’s buyout isn’t a end of the world number for them. Just saying in terms of risk/reward it makes sense from an upper level management perspective.

Not saying it’s the right or wrong move, because I cannot predict the future. Could definitely see Sullivan already being past his expiration date.

Edit: on some level, this is all overthinking. I think most of it is just Sully probably wanted a raise, and got one lmao
Oh, for sure. And like you said, in the end, you can buy out the coach and have it not count against the cap. I just think that coaches should be held to the same standard they hold players too, especially if an organization makes noise about competing and going all the way or whatnot. :laugh:

This team literally overhauled 50% of it's defense core to provide better balance. May work, may not, but what you're saying isn't "stop adhering to the status quo!" what you're saying is "stop adhering to the status quo in the way I specifically want!"

The wonderful thing about being an eternal pessimist is that eventually, yes you will be right. It's easy to continuously predict the core falling off a cliff because it will happen. If it's this year, you get to parrot how smart you are! If it's not, you can just say it again next offseason! It's honestly a decent strategy.
The defensive overhaul was long needed and the thing I'm the most excited about for the new season.
 

Deport Ogie

Registered User
Jun 30, 2014
2,518
2,968
Suburbia
The defensive overhaul was long needed and the thing I'm the most excited about for the new season.

For as much as we've talked about needing a better top 6 F or not for Geno's sidecar the addition of Petry behind him could honestly be the biggest add this team has made in some time, assuming we get good Petry.

I know a lot of folks are meh on Pettersson and that's fine, I get it, but Petry himself has said that Petts is the sort of dman that he feels comfortable playing with. I think it really could work.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
30,585
26,083
Well, not being able to restructure or buy out contracts certainly does affect that. :laugh:

But that McGinn contract is not great. Rust's contract is pretty ugly too, as are the rest of them you name. I guess it's a logical extension on how teams are operating now, but that doesn't mean it's good in the abstract. And in the end, I think that ultimately, it's one of the reasons we didn't squeeze more cups out of this era-- it's just simply too hard to build a roster even taking away the parity and lack of prospects. It's also why I wish we would have explored trading TB, not signed McGinn for a dumb deal, and not resigned Carter and run some internal stop-gaps instead. We basically shot ourselves in the lower body because we panicked that we'd lose some ultimately mediocre pieces and now we're stuck with a mediocre roster at the end of era and no room to make any moves going forward.

I'm not trying to sound alarmist or stealing PensX's thunder or anything. I don't expect us to compete for a Cup, just have some cool last hurrahs. I just think it's hard to look at the roster moves we've made over the last 3-4 years and have them be anything above "okay" or "possibly decent". The best non-UFA/RFA moves we made frankly in 5 years were trading Marino and Matheson. :dunno:

I mean to a large extent I agree with you. I think this roster is good, I think a lot of the more expensive depth pieces are good or at least maybe not shot, but other than that I think this team is at a considerable handicap because long years of success without a single proper reload means there's very few good players on the team at team friendly deals. To a certain extent I think this team being as high up the rankings as it is is actually a major overperformance when you look at how many of the teams around us in 16-17 have taken a fall from grace.

*pause* Also the part where the players that have to perform are quite injury prone.

But as for the amount of security the hockey world likes to give out - I agree it mostly doesn't help the teams but my point was never that it helps the teams, simply that we're not giving Sully anything his players haven't got.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
49,305
33,955
Praha, CZ
For as much as we've talked about needing a better top 6 F or not for Geno's sidecar the addition of Petry behind him could honestly be the biggest add this team has made in some time, assuming we get good Petry.

I know a lot of folks are meh on Pettersson and that's fine, I get it, but Petry himself has said that Petts is the sort of dman that he feels comfortable playing with. I think it really could work.
Yeah I still want a bit of snarl and thump back there, but that's stuff you can fix on the 3rd pairing pretty easily or in house, if you want to put Friedman in. Pettersson actually making that realistic step into the top 4 after seasons of not would be a huge difference maker there.

Again, I'm not sure any of it's going to work out, but at least it's a change. :laugh:
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
49,305
33,955
Praha, CZ
But as for the amount of security the hockey world likes to give out - I agree it mostly doesn't help the teams but my point was never that it helps the teams, simply that we're not giving Sully anything his players haven't got.
Oh, I get you. I just mostly feel that 99.9% of coaches don't deserve that luxury. It's not fair, but f*** 'em, neither is the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buddy Bizarre

Flying Dego

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
5,253
6,433
Oh, I get you. I just mostly feel that 99.9% of coaches don't deserve that luxury. It's not fair, but f*** 'em, neither is the world.
I think it's entirely fair. Coaches are paid a hefty salary with the knowledge that the gig is more temporary than permanent.

They are paid handsomely for the stress that comes along with the job.
 

Coastal Kev

There will be "I told you so's" Bet on it
Feb 16, 2013
17,456
5,488
The Low Country, SC
This team literally overhauled 50% of it's defense core to provide better balance. May work, may not, but what you're saying isn't "stop adhering to the status quo!" what you're saying is "stop adhering to the status quo in the way I specifically want!"

The wonderful thing about being an eternal pessimist is that eventually, yes you will be right. It's easy to continuously predict the core falling off a cliff because it will happen. If it's this year, you get to parrot how smart you are! If it's not, you can just say it again next offseason! It's honestly a decent strategy.

A: The two D they dealt would have been the two D that I would have kept and built around.
2: I'm not an eternal pessimist, falsely applying a label to discount an opinion is what the modern internet foundation is built on.
C: Fire Sully........and not in a good way.

The last top nine forward Tampa drafted outside of Ross Colton was drafted in 2015.
So they don't count?
also, D men don't count?

you're out of your depth
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pens x

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
96,619
78,567
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
A: The two D they dealt would have been the two D that I would have kept and built around.
2: I'm not an eternal pessimist, falsely applying a label to discount an opinion is what the modern internet foundation is built on.
C: Fire Sully........and not in a good way.


So they don't count?
also, D men don't count?

you're out of your depth

If we had a talent like Sergachev we would be playing him. We simply have not had a consequential depth piece like that.

Aside from Sergachev their top D core in the cup years was based around Hedman, McDonagh and Cernak who are around the same age as Dumo, Letang and Matheson / Marino.

Kapanen is playing the same role as Colton in our line up and is the same draft class.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
86,046
86,860
Redmond, WA
That article about Smith is absolutely just a smokescreen. The Penguins are obviously going to trade/waive POJ and play Smith in the NHL.

It's just a way of saying "well actually we don't have to trade POJ" to give the Penguins a shred of negotiating power. It's the same thing as when Yohe posted that "they're happy to keep Kessel" article days before Kessel was traded.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
86,046
86,860
Redmond, WA
We love that leverage by Hextall re: POJ. Turn that 5th rounder into a 4th rounder, King. :laugh: :sarcasm:

This is exactly why I'm coming around to the "who cares?" situation with POJ. If they just traded him for another Friedman caliber defenseman they can get through waivers, I'd be extremely satisfied with that.

Defensemen in POJ's current spot have basically no value. Teams aren't willing to pay much for a waiver eligible defenseman who hasn't shown he's NHL ready. If you can just swap him for another comparable defenseman you can stash in WBS, that's the move you should be doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big Friggin Dummy

jmelm

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 27, 2002
13,418
3,828
Toronto, Canada
I honestly think this whole roster situation got messy when the Penguins actually got Heinen to re-sign. I think they were fully going forward as if he wouldn't be here, which made retaining Kapanen make sense. But with Heinen sticking around, why keep Kapanen? But the issue is by the time Heinen signed, Kapanen had already filed for arbitration, so there was really no getting out of his deal.

Had they known Heinen was coming back, they could have not qualified Kapanen and have a 23 man roster of:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Heinen-Carter-McGinn
Poehling-Blueger-Archibald
Zohorna

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Petry
Smith-Rutta
Friedman-Ruhwedel

And you'd have about $2 million in cap space as far as I can tell.

We also could’ve just let Kapanen go to UFA and sign Motte who could play W or C for about $2M less.

In other words, the Kapanen decision should not have been contingent on Heinen nor any one specific player. We could also have traded a 2nd for Puljujarvi or signed a variety of other players. There was no lack of options.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pens x

Tasty Biscuits

with fancy sauce
Aug 8, 2011
12,599
3,948
Pittsburgh
Am I allowed to complain about the site layout or is that a no go? The sponsored stories section above the post reply button is a huge eyesore and takes up soooo much space. Very annoying
Yeah it really sucks. I guess it's fitting for a sport that does everything it can to alienate its fanbase that the Board does the same for its users.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pancakes

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
49,305
33,955
Praha, CZ
"Hey, uh, any of you want this dummy before I put him on waivers and you can get him for free? No? Nobody? Sick."
"How about we trade him to you for nothing? Just promise us you'll keep him fed and take him for walks and watch him listlessly plod through his callups."
Am I allowed to complain about the site layout or is that a no go? The sponsored stories section above the post reply button is a huge eyesore and takes up soooo much space. Very annoying
Yeah, it suuuuucks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad