Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

[Andy99]

We're currently 7th in the Metro with only one game left to play. The drop off is worse than we anticipated.

the Metro is gonna be tough though…according to The Hockey News lol…

The Metropolitan Division Looks the Most Competitive in the NHL

Every division has the ingredients for a tight playoff race down the homestretch. But the Metropolitan Division looks to have the tightest race of them all.

thehockeynews.com

 

[Pancakes]

Retrospectively how many “great teams” did we have entering the season in the Sid and Geno era.

A few. I feel like entering the season with the best player in the league and the third best player in the league is two pretty big feathers in our cap though.

We of course no longer have that, though on the plus side our depth is probably better than it ever was when Crosby and Malkin were younger.

 

[Andy99]

But we have….hope he lives up to it…

Ranking the NHL's top 10 goalies for the 2022-23 season from Andrei Vasilevskiy to Marc-Andre Fleury | Sporting News

The Sporting News ranks the best goalies in the league ahead of the 2022-23 season.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[Deport Ogie]

But we have….hope he lives up to it…

Ranking the NHL's top 10 goalies for the 2022-23 season from Andrei Vasilevskiy to Marc-Andre Fleury | Sporting News

The Sporting News ranks the best goalies in the league ahead of the 2022-23 season.

www.sportingnews.com

Until he does it in the playoffs there will always be doubt. And given what I typically see around this place, even if he does do it in the playoffs there will be doubt. I, for one, think he's capable. I see no reason not to believe he would have done admirably against NYR last year but I'm not going to call out anyone who disagrees.

The really interesting question then becomes the contract. If he puts up a top 10 type regular season again, stays healthy, and then performs well enough in the postseason, what's the AAV going to look like and who pays it?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

one would hope that they can play forever at the same level...but at that age there is a tipping point when the things go downhill, hope its not this year,

People have been saying Crosby was going downhill for years one of these times they might be right but........NOT TODAY

 

[ColePens]

People have been saying Crosby was going downhill for years one of these times they might be right but........NOT TODAY

I think the core guys are a ltitle to blame since 2019. They haven't found that level but the supporting cast was

B R U T A L

Look at guys like Teddy B's playoff stats. Then run through McCann and literally all of the guys lol

 

[Coastal Kev]

I think the core guys are a ltitle to blame since 2019. They haven't found that level but the supporting cast was

B R U T A L

Look at guys like Teddy B's playoff stats. Then run through McCann and literally all of the guys lol

Maybe you should look at the coach as well.

 

[Gurglesons]

A few. I feel like entering the season with the best player in the league and the third best player in the league is two pretty big feathers in our cap though.

We of course no longer have that, though on the plus side our depth is probably better than it ever was when Crosby and Malkin were younger.

I think realistically we always have made moves in season to make us a “great team” outside of 16-17 which obviously suffered the Letang injury.

 

[ColePens]

Maybe you should look at the coach as well.

Bro... you cant sit here and post like that Nobody has wanted Sully fired more than I did after being swept. We can't change that at this point. He will be the coach.

I've been very clear. Please follow along.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only way this team will be worse than last year's team is if the big guns all take massive steps backwards due to their age.

On paper, this team is clearly improved from last year. The only changes were Rodrigues, Marino, Matheson and Ruhwedel out and Archibald, Petry, Smith and Rutta in, plus you have Rakell for a full season now. I don't see any justification for that being a "downgrade".

Petry is by far the best player in that group and Smith-Rutta meshes so well as a 3rd pair that the defense should be massively improved. The forward group has a (right now) healthy Malkin and Zucker, plus Rakell for a full season. Everything else is effectively the same. So what's the justification for this team being worse? Just their age?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

The only way this team will be worse than last year's team is if the big guns all take massive steps backwards due to their age.

On paper, this team is clearly improved from last year. The only changes were Rodrigues, Marino, Matheson and Ruhwedel out and Archibald, Petry, Smith and Rutta in, plus you have Rakell for a full season now. I don't see any justification for that being a "downgrade".

Petry is by far the best player in that group and Smith-Rutta meshes so well as a 3rd pair that the defense should be massively improved. The forward group has a (right now) healthy Malkin and Zucker, plus Rakell for a full season. So what's the justification for this team being worse? Just their age?

I think a lot of non-Penguins fans (and maybe even some Pens fans) just keep expecting all the stars to fall off a cliff performance wise because it’s happened to other teams with older stars i.e. Blackhawks, Kings, etc. One of these years, they’ll be right but considering the years Crosby and Letang had plus everyone’s health as you mentioned, I can’t see it happening this year either.

 

[Peat]

I think the core guys are a ltitle to blame since 2019. They haven't found that level but the supporting cast was

B R U T A L

Look at guys like Teddy B's playoff stats. Then run through McCann and literally all of the guys lol

Blueger was on ice for more 5v5 goals for than Malkin vs Montreal and was only just behind Sid vs NYI; McCann was on ice for the same amount as Malkin vs Montreal and more than Sid vs NYI. And McCann was on ice for more goals for than either Sid or Geno in the first NYI series.

If those guys were brutal, what were the core guys whose on ice performances were regularly even worse for scoring?

I hate this narrative. The core - albeit heavily injury impacted - let this team down a lot more than a little for three straight years, pure and simple. It started at the top. They're not a little to blame and let down by brutal depth, they were brutal and frankly the depth should have a lot more excuses for not scoring because the core's not breaking down defences.

Last year was the first time in a long time the core can say they got the job done - at 5v5 at least, barring Trouba's elbow - and ask questions about why didn't the depth follow through.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, until Geno's miraculous showing on one leg against the Isles and Sid+Jake going insane against the Rangers, the top-6/core had been abysmal since the Caps series in 2018. I think Sid and Jake had more points each in the Rangers series than they had total going back to that Caps series.

 

[Peat]

Also anyone who thinks this team is worse on paper for the following changes at the start of the season -

Rakell for Rodrigues
Poehling/Archibald for ZAR
Petry for Marino
Smith for Matheson
Rutta for Ruhwedel

is fundamentally wasting your time

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I think a lot of non-Penguins fans (and maybe even some Pens fans) just keep expecting all the stars to fall off a cliff performance wise because it’s happened to other teams with older stars i.e. Blackhawks, Kings, etc. One of these years, they’ll be right but considering the years Crosby and Letang had plus everyone’s health as you mentioned, I can’t see it happening this year either.

There is a large difference that I have being saying all along, these guys are generational talent...........those guys weren't and aren't

Big difference

 

[ColePens]

Blueger was on ice for more 5v5 goals for than Malkin vs Montreal and was only just behind Sid vs NYI; McCann was on ice for the same amount as Malkin vs Montreal and more than Sid vs NYI. And McCann was on ice for more goals for than either Sid or Geno in the first NYI series.

If those guys were brutal, what were the core guys whose on ice performances were regularly even worse for scoring?

I hate this narrative. The core - albeit heavily injury impacted - let this team down a lot more than a little for three straight years, pure and simple. It started at the top. They're not a little to blame and let down by brutal depth, they were brutal and frankly the depth should have a lot more excuses for not scoring because the core's not breaking down defences.

Last year was the first time in a long time the core can say they got the job done - at 5v5 at least, barring Trouba's elbow - and ask questions about why didn't the depth follow through.

I would say the blame is... everything? Lol.

Now I hate giving a pass, but goaltending was 100000000% the issue last year. Louis SUCKED. LIke really bad. I sitll don't think that team would have won the Cup.

 

[Dominance]

Caps are facing a far harsher drop-off than us.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Also anyone who thinks this team is worse on paper for the following changes at the start of the season -

Rakell for Rodrigues
Poehling/Archibald for ZAR
Petry for Marino
Smith for Matheson
Rutta for Ruhwedel

is fundamentally wasting your time

do you think people really worry about wasting time on here?

We will be talking about an undrafted player who was cut for years

Some people talk about how much we hate a coach and GM 100 different ways rehashed for over 1,000s of post

People are not wasting their time on here

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I think realistically we always have made moves in season to make us a “great team” outside of 16-17 which obviously suffered the Letang injury.

We've made some really solid moves in season and at the TDL, we have been one of the most active teams addressing issues, unfortunately not all those players always work out even though on paper they very well could have.

 

[chethejet]

Pens have the potential to be better and they were pretty good last year. A healthy Zucker. Malkin in much better condition and a year removed from his knee surgery. A full season with Rakell, and using Carter in the TOI as per his play. Now Dumo is an issue and the level of play from the LD is just not physical or close to what was there a couple years ago. Dumo is an issue. Hextall at some point has to upgrade the LD with moving a contract out.

 

[Peat]

I would say the blame is... everything? Lol.

Now I hate giving a pass, but goaltending was 100000000% the issue last year. Louis SUCKED. LIke really bad. I sitll don't think that team would have won the Cup.

Injuries and goaltending imo, the same story for three years straight.

Won the cup? Probably not, but I think they could have reached the Conference Finals, and from there it's a bit of a who knows.

I would give a lot just to see them turn up fit for once and find out what's really there under all the bad luck stories.

 

[Pens x]

Until he does it in the playoffs there will always be doubt. And given what I typically see around this place, even if he does do it in the playoffs there will be doubt. I, for one, think he's capable. I see no reason not to believe he would have done admirably against NYR last year but I'm not going to call out anyone who disagrees.

The really interesting question then becomes the contract. If he puts up a top 10 type regular season again, stays healthy, and then performs well enough in the postseason, what's the AAV going to look like and who pays it?

He’s going to turn 28 this season, and we still don’t know if he can play well in the playoffs. That’s a problem.

He has no one to blame but himself for his embarrassing 3.00 GAA, 89% sv. You don’t sign him to a lucrative contract until he proves himself.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So for some actual news:





It looks like Carter will be good to go for the season starting and Blueger won't be far behind him.

 

[Andy99]

Pens have the potential to be better and they were pretty good last year. A healthy Zucker. Malkin in much better condition and a year removed from his knee surgery. A full season with Rakell, and using Carter in the TOI as per his play. Now Dumo is an issue and the level of play from the LD is just not physical or close to what was there a couple years ago. Dumo is an issue. Hextall at some point has to upgrade the LD with moving a contract out.

DK just said this morning that reports out of camp were that Dumo’s skating does not look good…

 

[Empoleon8771]

I am legitimately curious to see how they become cap compliant. With how they're using the defense, it doesn't seem like sending Smith down is really in the cards whatsoever. It would be really bizarre for the team to run with Smith-Rutta non-stop without even looking at Rutta-Ruhwedel as a pair, only for them to send Smith down and run with Rutta-Ruhwedel to become cap compliant. But I don't really see another option outside of sending Smith down that doesn't risk losing a player.

Especially after losing Zohorna to waivers, I think Hextall will be much more hesitant to waive a player to get them through waivers. I think Ruhwedel would assuredly get claimed and Friemdan might get claimed.