Pascal Vincent...YOUR opinion of him as coach

[HabsAddict]

Hi Guys and sorry to intrude...

What is your opinion of Pascal Vincent?

He's currently head coach of out AHL franchise and is in charge of a TON of prospects.

I have one but rather not lead the discussion. Better if you tell me what you thought of him. Particularly playing the young guys and development.

Appreciate any comments and thanks in advance....

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[koteka]

What is your opinion of Paul Vincent?

We would be perfectly fine if we never heard the name Pascal Vincent ever again.

 

[HabsAddict]

We would be perfectly fine if we never heard the name Pascal Vincent ever again.

I kind of figured that...but why?

He's currently in charge of at least 5-6 Grade A prospects in the AHL so you can see my concern.

 

[majormajor]

Hi Guys and sorry to intrude...

What is your opinion of Paul Vincent?

He's currently head coach of out AHL franchise and is in charge of a TON of prospects.

I have one but rather not lead the discussion. Better if you tell me what you thought of him. Particularly playing the young guys and development.

Appreciate any comments and thanks in advance....

I question how much of a Habs Addict you are if you don't know the guys name.

Pascal Vincent took over a tire fire irresponsible team and tried to turn it into a responsible team. They got a little better defensively but not enough. They scored 15 or so more goals than the year prior and gave up 30 fewer.

He had a short leash for the young talent and that wasn't the best for their development. They were afraid to make mistakes. But people here also constantly exaggerate it, kids like KJ and Fantilli and Sillinger are all having stretches even this year where they are just plain bad. The coach can't do much to speed up that growth process.

 

[majormajor]

I kind of figured that...but why?

He's currently in charge of at least 5-6 Grade A prospects in the AHL so you can see my concern.

I remember when you guys were blaming Sylvain Lefebvre (now a Panthers assistant coach) for the failures of can't miss prospects like Scherbak, McCarron, De La Rose, Hudon, etc... Sometimes it's not the coach and you guys just get your echo chamber going overpuffing your prospects.

 

[HabsAddict]

I question how much of a Habs Addict you are if you don't know the guys name.

Pascal Vincent took over a tire fire irresponsible team and tried to turn it into a responsible team. They got a little better defensively but not enough. They scored 15 or so more goals than the year prior and gave up 30 fewer.

He had a short leash for the young talent and that wasn't the best for their development. They were afraid to make mistakes. But people here also constantly exaggerate it, kids like KJ and Fantilli and Sillinger are all having stretches even this year where they are just plain bad. The coach can't do much to speed up that growth process.

20 lashes not calling him Pasqual...

The bolded part is what concerns me. I'm seeing a huge decline in offense from many prospects and also a huge decline in wins. The team is loaded with talent and started with a 13-2 record but now, his coaching taking full effect, the LOSSES are piling up and the offense disappeared.

I don't want to lead the opinion but I can't help commenting on what I see.

I rather you tell me I'm wrong then confirm my bias....

I remember when you guys were blaming Sylvain Lefebvre (now a Panthers assistant coach) for the failures of can't miss prospects like Scherbak, McCarron, De La Rose, Hudon, etc... Sometimes it's not the coach and you guys just get your echo chamber going overpuffing your prospects.

We had a mess in developing prospects. That's neither here or there at this point.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

One thing I could not stand with Vincent was that the Jackets would be up by a goal and he would drop back in a prevent defense. The Jackets would go on to lose with me yelling at the tv. It was very frustrating. He seems like a nice guy, but he only got the job because of the Babcock cluster.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

Always seemed way in over his head. Players never seemed on the same page. He took over a shit situation, I'll give him that.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Hi Guys and sorry to intrude...

What is your opinion of Pascal Vincent?

He's currently head coach of out AHL franchise and is in charge of a TON of prospects.

I have one but rather not lead the discussion. Better if you tell me what you thought of him. Particularly playing the young guys and development.

Appreciate any comments and thanks in advance....

Over the course of the season I went from thinking maybe he’ll be ok to hating his tenure here and happy the day he was dismissed. How he will do in the AHL is an unknown for me. Here he leaned way too heavily on veterans, playing some low skill guys minutes than they deserved and better veterans excessive minutes.

That shouldn’t have been his mission with this team and certainly shouldn’t be his mission coaching an AHL team filled with prospects. Here he had a short leash on young players and I think they too often were looking over their shoulder. Those are the things I’d be watching.

 

[Crede777]

He's a little better than Brad Larson. So probably the 2nd worst NHL coach I've seen in over 20 years.

 

[HabsAddict]

Here are two posts I wrote elsewhere...and Vincent starting to annoy me...

Struggling to score goals because Vincent is trying his best to turn defenseman into fearing death if they go past the blue line. It's kind of hard to score goals with 3 on 5 in the offensive zone. The defenseman are staying high afraid to be burned which does not make for much of an offensive unit.

Houle had the team playing far more offensively.

We started hot but if you take out the first 15 games with 13-2 and now, from Nov 20, were are 7-10 team. That's when Vincents coaching took "full effect".

We wont know how Vincents results apply to the Habs for a few years, BUT if this sub .500 record continues, he's a failure and our prospects will start bombing out one by one. It will be YEARS of wasted development.

My BIGGEST fear now and forever was and is AHL coaches that have one eye towards getting hired in the NHL. They will forsake development for their won/loss record and that is never a good recipe for the parent club.

BTW...I was trying to find players TOI which will tell me a ton on who Vincent favors but apparently it's top secret in the AHL.
Respond to one of our posters saying he's trying to make them "concentrate" on certain skills...which I disagree...

I'm not sure turning defenseman into Jordie Benn is anyone's idea of development. Benn would literally race to the blue line, toss the puck into the corner and treat the opposing zone like it was some kind of radioactive no-go zone.

Do players need coaching and correction? More then I need 3 supermodels...

I've seen Mailman (Mailloux) pinch with almost zero chance of helping, then get burned, I've seen him coming back slowly to the net and leaving a huge gap...and that is in several games. The problem is so do the Habs regulars. If I start criticizing Hutson for his defensive errors, he would be sent to the ECHL. Or should I start with Matheson?

My point is that you correct rookie mistakes until you wonder if God sent them to you as punishment. It's part of their learning process.

Ask me how many inches of hairline I lost trying to make CNC operators out of woman who a year earlier where collecting eggs on their patch of farmland. It just took enormous patience with rinse and repeat. It worked. And I'm damn proud of it.

My argument is...don't stifle one aspect because it will somehow force faster progress in another aspects. PURE NONSENSE. As a 50 year manager of thousands of people, I can guarantee that is a false narrative that has no business in a professional organization. Yet here we are with Vincent putting barriers on players to "learn the game". ABSLUTELY WRONG. It's rinse and repeat. Videos, one-on-one, in-game, in their sleep...rinse and repeat.

I've written about playing vets with rookies, that's because that rinse and repeat is in real time and in game. More effective then discussions or practices the next morning. Plus the teammate is right there, besides you, which can not be ignored.

What happened with X? They worked on him one-on-one to teach him to close the gap, use stick defense and make smarter pinching decisions. It worked...mostly. He still makes mistakes, guys still get by him once in a while, but now apparent mistakes are more like 1 in 20 encounters rather then one 1 in 5. He's never going to be Weber, but then, few are.

 

[HabsAddict]

Here he had a short leash on young players and I think they too often were looking over their shoulder.

We all have our favorite players. One of mine is Mailloux. Last year he had the third highest points in the AHL as a defenseman and he was a rookie.

This year he starts 6 games late because he was sent down from the Habs roster....and score 4 points in one game, 3 in another, soon back on top of the AHL...and then collapses. Why? Then I started to watch the AHL games and M is off the first PP and gets no PK time. Next thing I read is a tweet from Vincent that players have to get the trust of the coach to play.

That sounds like a coach who favors those that help him win...and not a priority on developing.

Thanks for the input guys. You pretty much confirmed what I suspected...

 

[ViD]

I don’t think there was anything exciting about CBJ hockey during his tenure

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Here’s the thing about Vincent. I don’t think he ever got a real chance here as a head coach.

From the start of his tenure he was given a shit sandwich. Babcock had the locker room reeling. There was vultures from the media all over the team, and management was under the gun from ownership. The team was in need of a growing phase, and he quickly was put in hot seat mode even though the roster wasn’t ready and he probably wasn’t either. He didn’t have his own camp. He didn’t have his own staff or summer. Jarmo got fired, and suddenly management was going to be completely overhauled.

Did he do well last year? No. But I can’t really say it was his fault completely.

But the things I think are fair game to point out, because he was here for a while as an assistant, is the PP was awful when he ran it and it was awful when he hired a coach to run it. It’s been pretty decent this year. I don’t think he handled the young guys very well especially with guys like KJ.

 

[majormajor]

But the things I think are fair game to point out, because he was here for a while as an assistant, is the PP was awful when he ran it and it was awful when he hired a coach to run it. It’s been pretty decent this year. I don’t think he handled the young guys very well especially with guys like KJ.

Of all the "fair things to point out" I don't know if the PP failure would be one of them. It stank for six years before he showed up. And it looks good now largely because the players on it are phenomenal at their jobs, I don't think Vincent ever had that option.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Of all the "fair things to point out" I don't know if the PP failure would be one of them. It stank for six years before he showed up. And it looks good now largely because the players on it are phenomenal at their jobs, I don't think Vincent ever had that option.

He certainly didn't contribute to fixing the problem. They also gave up a lot of SH goals it felt like.

 

[Monk]

I've been trying to think of something nice to say and haven't come up with anything.

So I'll just pile on instead. I hated the way he communicated.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

My two cents: he inherited the role very suddenly in an organisation in turmoil and then tried to implement a Vegas style defense, which is suited for big bodied defensemen, when Columbus' defensemen generally were of the smaller and more mobile variety. So for example Gudbranson looked good under Vincent, but not many others. I believe he could probably go on to have success with a more solid team, more time to give input on the roster and generally less organisational chaos around him. When Babcock was fired, it seemed like Vincent was forced into a tough guy role that I didn't feel really suit him.

I think an AHL head coach role is ideal for him right now, where he can be himself and not have a sword of Damocles hanging over him all the time.

 

[majormajor]

My two cents: he inherited the role very suddenly in an organisation in turmoil and then tried to implement a Vegas style defense, which is suited for big bodied defensemen, when Columbus' defensemen generally were of the smaller and more mobile variety. So for example Gudbranson looked good under Vincent, but not many others. I believe he could probably go on to have success with a more solid team, more time to give input on the roster and generally less organisational chaos around him. When Babcock was fired, it seemed like Vincent was forced into a tough guy role that I didn't feel really suit him.

I think an AHL head coach role is ideal for him right now, where he can be himself and not have a sword of Damocles hanging over him all the time.

I think he did what he wanted to do, not because of Babcock. It sounds like he is coaching the same way in Laval. I do agree that he wanted to do the Vegas system and we just didn't have a fit with these players.

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

I think he did what he wanted to do, not because of Babcock. It sounds like he is coaching the same way in Laval. I do agree that he wanted to do the Vegas system and we just didn't have a fit with these players.

Well, then there's a difference between the kind of coach he thinks he needs to be and the one I think he needs to be based on my (admittedly extremely limited) view of his personality.

 

[Cowumbus]

“ Down a goal with 4-5 mins left in the game? Kuraly, Danforth, you’re up next “ - Vincent probably

 

[NotWendell]

Two words: he sucks.

 

[DankoCBJ]

I think we didnt get to see "the real" Pascal Vincent. He was put in a impossible situation where you just cannot succeed. Simple as that.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

He was passed over twice for the head coaching job here and then when he fell into it he seemed to be coaching to save his job and not to win games.

He was dealt a horrible no win situation. Nice enough guy but the way he handled the team was no way to develop and build a winning culture here.

 

[CarolinaBlueJacket]

Two words: he sucks.

One word: Turtle