Okay, the thread title is just to get attention. I know Roy was good -- I watched pretty much his whole career, on and off, and I've always rated him very high.
Even so, I was sort-of stunned to see that this forum seems to consider him the #1 goalie ever. Really?? While I agree he was one of the best of his time, I don't see him as anywhere near the best ever.
I think one of the difficulties of evaluating Roy is that he played much of his career for two pretty stacked, good teams. This is in contrast to Hasek, who in his Buffalo days (which made his name) did not play for a stacked, great team, but still helped that team to the playoffs and very nearly the Stanley Cup. In other words, Hasek's contribution to his team in that mid-to-late-90s period is extremely clear. With Hasek, Buffalo was a contender. Without him, they were almost nothing.
But with Roy, it's hard to say how much he added. Certainly, he added a lot. But enough that we can say he's the greatest of all time...?
Maybe my judgement is clouded because I just watched the highlights of an Edmonton-Montreal match from 1985 when rookie Roy let in 4 of the first 5 shots he faced in the second period, but it seems to me that in the brief periods when Roy backstopped average-level teams, he was himself less than stellar (I'm not saying he was just average, but that he was less than stellar when his team was more average). At the end of his career, he sits with three Vezina trophies. Not small change, but not enough to suggest the greatest of all time.
What Roy did very well was turn it on in the playoffs, and to bounce back from weaker efforts. Nobody can argue with his three Conn Smythes. That forms the strongest argument for his 'greatest' status, I suppose. But he won it in 1986 on the bad of a very unremarkable rookie season, and then the 1993 and 2001 wins are in front of very stacked teams. I agree that Roy deserved the three Conn Smythes (certainly the '86 and '93 ones; perhaps '01 is more debatable), by the way.
From the stats: Roy led the NHL in save-% 4 times in 18 years. Good? yes. Great? yes. Best of all time..? Uhh... He led in GAA 3 times and wins 2 times. In 18 years. Is this the best goalie ever?
I dunno... I like Roy a lot and I think he was great. But I don't think he's the best ever. I'm just wondering if the legend of 'St. Patrick' is starting to take over from reality.
Even so, I was sort-of stunned to see that this forum seems to consider him the #1 goalie ever. Really?? While I agree he was one of the best of his time, I don't see him as anywhere near the best ever.
I think one of the difficulties of evaluating Roy is that he played much of his career for two pretty stacked, good teams. This is in contrast to Hasek, who in his Buffalo days (which made his name) did not play for a stacked, great team, but still helped that team to the playoffs and very nearly the Stanley Cup. In other words, Hasek's contribution to his team in that mid-to-late-90s period is extremely clear. With Hasek, Buffalo was a contender. Without him, they were almost nothing.
But with Roy, it's hard to say how much he added. Certainly, he added a lot. But enough that we can say he's the greatest of all time...?
Maybe my judgement is clouded because I just watched the highlights of an Edmonton-Montreal match from 1985 when rookie Roy let in 4 of the first 5 shots he faced in the second period, but it seems to me that in the brief periods when Roy backstopped average-level teams, he was himself less than stellar (I'm not saying he was just average, but that he was less than stellar when his team was more average). At the end of his career, he sits with three Vezina trophies. Not small change, but not enough to suggest the greatest of all time.
What Roy did very well was turn it on in the playoffs, and to bounce back from weaker efforts. Nobody can argue with his three Conn Smythes. That forms the strongest argument for his 'greatest' status, I suppose. But he won it in 1986 on the bad of a very unremarkable rookie season, and then the 1993 and 2001 wins are in front of very stacked teams. I agree that Roy deserved the three Conn Smythes (certainly the '86 and '93 ones; perhaps '01 is more debatable), by the way.
From the stats: Roy led the NHL in save-% 4 times in 18 years. Good? yes. Great? yes. Best of all time..? Uhh... He led in GAA 3 times and wins 2 times. In 18 years. Is this the best goalie ever?
I dunno... I like Roy a lot and I think he was great. But I don't think he's the best ever. I'm just wondering if the legend of 'St. Patrick' is starting to take over from reality.
