Confirmed with Link: Pascal Vincent Named Laval Rocket Head Coach

[Captain Mountain]

And 20 years ago, Facebook wasn't a thing.

Here's a great user comment on The Athletic

This guy is a poster child for failing up (and then failing down, then failing back up again, then down again...). His stint with the Moose was after he was an assistant for the Jets for years - as a tactical 'eye in the sky,' which lasted a very short time, then as the PP expert during the years of a sub 15% PP, then running the forwards during their lowest scoring season in franchise history... he was Awful. It's not clear that Cheveldayoff ever knew that he was allowed to make changes, but it's not an accident that the Jets got good AFTER Pascal was demoted.

I don't really understand this character - he just sticks around despite literally never having success with a team. The last trophy he won at any level was in 1992 playing as an over-ager in the Q. He has never won any trophy as a coach in all his 23 years (why does the article say 30?). At the professional level (13 years), he has seen the playoffs twice ever - the 4 game sweep of the Jets in 2015, and a second round loss in 2018 with the Moose.

Saying that 'he' graduated a bunch of NHL quality players for the Jets is also a fantasy.

Basu lists:

Cole Perfetti - 10th overall, played 32 games under Vincent
Kyle Connor - 17th overall, a year at college, 56 games under Vincent
Logan Stanley -18th overall, 2 seasons under Vincent, still trying to establish NHL career at 26
Jack Roslovic - 25th overall, year of college, 97 games under Vincent over two years

Dylan Samberg - 42nd overall, 3 years college, 32 games under Vincent
Jansen Harkins - 47th overall, 150 games under Vincent, back in the AHL at 27
Tucker Poolman - 5th round, 3 seasons of college, 60 games under Vincent over two years
Mason Appleton - 6th round pick, 2 years college, 120 games under Vincent

He also coached guys like Kristian Vesalainen (24th overall, 88 games with Vincent) and
Eric Comrie (2nd round, 152 games under Vincent) and many more who flamed out. Kostalek, Spacek, Lipon, De Leo and on and on - guys who were late picks with promise and never made the jump from Vincent's AHL team. No one is writing to say 'Is Pascal Vincent responsible for Nic Petan not becoming a star?' I don't know the answer, but we can't say he made Kyle Connor's career while pretending the long list of guys who didn't make it aren't his fault. Good and the bad.

As you can see, the Jets like to take guys headed to college. So Vincent gets them when they are a bit older and more mature, and then the only people I think we could reasonably assume he had the chance to develop from that list are Roslovic, Harkins and Appleton. That's from 5 seasons as the Head Coach of the Moose. And contrary to Basu's assertion - the Moose top 5 scorers from his years always included 3-5 players who were AHL veterans. They were not bit players on young teams.

ALSO! The Jets have had so many problems with their young players arriving too raw - such as Perfetti and Logan Stanley! Both are still trying to nail down full-time jobs with the Jets precisely because they lack the 'professional polish' to their game that an AHL development coach with NHL experience might offer. Other examples include Sami Niku, Ville Heinola, or David Gustafsson - guys who made the jump but can't make an impact at the NHL level. We can say it's talent, not coaching. Fine, but then he doesn't get credit for a handful of 1st round picks making it to the NHL.

I know it seems like I'm this guy's biographer, but seriously - how does he NEVER suffer any of the blame for his poor work outcomes??? CBJ was a mess, no doubt. But we're talking about a guy who was 52 years old with over 20 years coaching experience, who had been an Assistant Coach with that same CBJ team for two previous years and he gave a press conference comparing their top prospects wanting to get NHL experience (and paycheques) to his 13 year old daughter wanting a new phone.

How much more learning did he need to know that was infantilizing and demeaning toward these 20 year old ELITE ATHLETES who gave up their childhoods to pursue excellence in their dreams?? He'd known those young men since the day they started with the Blue Jackets, had been at the draft table, had been at the development camps and pre-seasons with them. If I mocked my newest, youngest, and most valued employees publicly - people I helped to on-board into the company - I'd be fired for creating a hostile working environment. When does PV get held accountable for his ridiculous behaviour??

The guy is a bad technical coach with a 'bro' attitude, no education, who shows no special appreciation of what it means to be an NHL prospect, who has never won anything ever as a coach. What is it about this guy that NHL teams don't run screaming from?

It doesn't sound like you're his biographer, it sounds like you have a personal vendetta. His outcomes aren't poor, they're not to the standard your demanding. If you choose to minimize achievements and maximize his failings then obviously he's not going to look good.

I've long had an issue with this expectation that coaches are entirely responsible for player development, but if the argument is that Winnipeg has had too many prospects who made the jump but can't make an impact from a team that is an outlier of teams that has actually been able to graduate players from the AHL relative to the quality and quantity of their picks/prospects in the first place doesn't say that much. Like Perfetti played 32 games under him in his D+1 season and then stagnated under his successor, and pinning the blame on him.

Nor is it a selling point when the alternatives being suggested are guys who can't even turn junior players into strong prospects that get drafted.

Its not even that I think Vincent is a great coach, but all the alternatives I see floating around don't seem all that great either.

 

[NA Hockey]

It doesn't sound like you're his biographer, it sounds like you have a personal vendetta. His outcomes aren't poor, they're not to the standard your demanding. If you choose to minimize achievements and maximize his failings then obviously he's not going to look good.

I've long had an issue with this expectation that coaches are entirely responsible for player development, but if the argument is that Winnipeg has had too many prospects who made the jump but can't make an impact from a team that is an outlier of teams that has actually been able to graduate players from the AHL relative to the quality and quantity of their picks/prospects in the first place doesn't say that much. Like Perfetti played 32 games under him in his D+1 season and then stagnated under his successor, and pinning the blame on him.

Nor is it a selling point when the alternatives being suggested are guys who can't even turn junior players into strong prospects that get drafted.

Its not even that I think Vincent is a great coach, but all the alternatives I see floating around don't seem all that great either.

Perfetti stagnated under his successor? What are you talking about?

Perfetti played 32 games under Pascal in his D+1 with 26 points and then the following year played 17 games under Morrison with 15 points and was promptly promoted to the Jets for good midseason. I would say both could claim to developing him but neither were "instrumental" to his development. AHL coaches play a part in development but there are so many other factors to development. The one thing an AHL coach can control is ice time and deployment and that is probably their biggest influence in any development of a prospect.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It doesn't sound like you're his biographer, it sounds like you have a personal vendetta. His outcomes aren't poor, they're not to the standard your demanding. If you choose to minimize achievements and maximize his failings then obviously he's not going to look good.

I've long had an issue with this expectation that coaches are entirely responsible for player development, but if the argument is that Winnipeg has had too many prospects who made the jump but can't make an impact from a team that is an outlier of teams that has actually been able to graduate players from the AHL relative to the quality and quantity of their picks/prospects in the first place doesn't say that much. Like Perfetti played 32 games under him in his D+1 season and then stagnated under his successor, and pinning the blame on him.

Nor is it a selling point when the alternatives being suggested are guys who can't even turn junior players into strong prospects that get drafted.

Its not even that I think Vincent is a great coach, but all the alternatives I see floating around don't seem all that great either.

Not my comment, I think it was a Jets fan.

 

[Rapala]

He blew up his knee during a fight with Jesse Blacker and was never close to be the same after that. Leblanc absolutely could've carved a 3rd line winger who can take faceoffs career without that (though I reckon that would've required him to bulk up a bit).

I always heard he was soft soft soft.
This coming from players who actually played against him going back to Midget AAA.
Definitely not my idea of an ideal 3rd line winger.
My third line preference is to have glue guys across the board or at least strong board players on the wing.
No one would ever accuse Leblanc of being that.
Heck I don't particularly like Dvorak or Evans on our third line and they are definitely better than Louis Leblanc.

 

[Treb]

Fortunately since he has butchered the Lightning GM job.

2 Stanley Cup and a Calder Cup. Butchered...

What are the last 31 years in Montreal then?

 

[schwang26]

I think he’ll do perfectly fine. The prospects have experience (with a couple more good ones coming in), the D will be better, the goaltending will be solid. They added size and toughness and Barre Boulet. As long as the injury curse finally moves on from the organization, I expect a solid playoff position this year. They won’t take a step back.

 

[Yep]

My impression is that Hughes, Gorton and co are building a culture that value respect and teamwork in the pursuit of excellence. The headcoach is expected to be the glue that hold the ship together and instill that culture. He is not given carte blanche. He is expected to lead, but most importantly to get the best out of everyone, players and staff members.

We won't have a autocratic one-man show in a coaching position as long as Hughes and Gorton are here. In that sense, I believe MTL is a far better fit for Leclaire, than CLB ever was.

 

[Whitesnake]

I'd hardly call a team that vocally wanted to make the playoffs and hired Babcock to be the head coach was a soft environment.

Vincent's usage wasn't that dissimilar to what MSL has done in Montreal. Johnson played incredibly sheltered minutes with offensive starts and being kept away from other teams top players, and he was awful defensively. He wasn't ready to play tougher minutes. The next two most sheltered players on Columbus were Fantilli (showed a ton of offensive upside, but his defensive game was a work in progress like almost every D+1 player in the NHL) and Jiricek (the guy I think he actually mishandled). Johnson and Fantilli also got substantial PP time, despite being less effective than a ton of other guys.

There was also clear improvements from young guys like Chinakov, Voronkov, etc. Vincent was FAR from being flawless, but players need to actually earn more ice time.

It feels elitist and wrong to suggest that there's extra pressure as an AHL HC than there is being an NHL HC stepping in for one of the most recognizable HC names from the last 30+ years.

Come on man. Columbus. How many series have they won since they came in the league. No matter how it feels, that's what it is. how do you compare Torto's teams with Vincent's? Have you looked at the vets/rookies ratio? You think the great people of Columbus would put a huge amount of pressure on Vincent without looking at the roster?

The need to earn more icetime....well to explain that to me, you have to show me how guys weren,t deserving of some. Being awful at something is NOT a reason to not deserve icetime. You actually need more icetime to stop being awful. Now, if they are lazy it's something else. but then, if they are lazy...why do they stay in the NHL?

And kids being less effective than other players? Great. How effective are you when you finish bottom 4.....

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

2 Stanley Cup and a Calder Cup. Butchered...

What are the last 31 years in Montreal then?

Yzerman built that team. He has disassembled it.

 

[Treb]

Yzerman built that team. He has disassembled it.

Sure, which is why they won with Yzerman... oh wait..

Sure, which is why they won right after Yzerman left... oh wait...

 

[Shred]

Yzerman built that team. He has disassembled it.

Brisebois’ savvy asset management (cap circumvention strategy) got them their 2 cups so they can thank him for that.

I wouldn’t think his dismissive treatment of long time players who gave everything to the team for so long is viewed in a positive light in the room and it doesn’t feel like he is a leader you want to give more to since he established that everyone is expendable. Talking Stamkos, McDonagh and Sergachev here.

 

[Vachon23]

Brisebois’ savvy asset management (cap circumvention strategy) got them their 2 cups so they can thank him for that.

I wouldn’t think his dismissive treatment of long time players who gave everything to the team for so long is viewed in a positive light in the room and it doesn’t feel like he is a leader you want to give more to since he established that everyone is expendable. Talking Stamkos, McDonagh and Sergachev here.

And the most important thing, he’s the one that found John Cooper

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Yzerman built that team. He has disassembled it.

Surely you will realise how wrong this take is after a little research

 

[LaP]

Looking at what Yzerman is doing with Detroit i feel like people are giving him too much credit for TB.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Come on man. Columbus. How many series have they won since they came in the league. No matter how it feels, that's what it is. how do you compare Torto's teams with Vincent's? Have you looked at the vets/rookies ratio? You think the great people of Columbus would put a huge amount of pressure on Vincent without looking at the roster?

The need to earn more icetime....well to explain that to me, you have to show me how guys weren,t deserving of some. Being awful at something is NOT a reason to not deserve icetime. You actually need more icetime to stop being awful. Now, if they are lazy it's something else. but then, if they are lazy...why do they stay in the NHL?

And kids being less effective than other players? Great. How effective are you when you finish bottom 4.....

How many series have Laval won?

And if the question is, "Did Vincent play young guys more/give them more opportunities than Torts (or Larsen)?", then the answer is yes.

If the argument relies on treating the great people of Columbus differently than the great people of Montreal in respect to all the awful rosters the Habs have put out over the years, then its a doomed one.

As for the ice time thing, again, its the same as what MSL has done in Montreal and every other rebuilding team. Give young guys shots higher in the line up. Give them PP time. But don't hand them tougher minutes they clearly aren't ready for yet. Especially for D.

Even ignoring there wasn't real overlap between Roslovic/Nylander minutes, that does not strike me as a team not playing their young guys at ES. And they got serious PP time too. I'm not going to get into lazy or not because I can't know, but they did send Jiricek down.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Surely you will realise how wrong this take is after a little research

Yzerman was the GM. Who knows who actually was responsible for what ever good moves they made? Seeing what Yzerman has done with Detroit makes you wonder if Brisebois was more responsible. Some questionable moves recently but it wasn't for the flat cap they likely win more than 2 Cups.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I wouldn’t think his dismissive treatment of long time players who gave everything to the team for so long is viewed in a positive light in the room and it doesn’t feel like he is a leader you want to give more to since he established that everyone is expendable. Talking Stamkos, McDonagh and Sergachev here.

Vegas and NYR do the exact same thing as TB. They can all afford to be ruthless because players always want to play in those 3 markets.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

And 20 years ago, Facebook wasn't a thing.

Here's a great user comment on The Athletic

This guy is a poster child for failing up (and then failing down, then failing back up again, then down again...). His stint with the Moose was after he was an assistant for the Jets for years - as a tactical 'eye in the sky,' which lasted a very short time, then as the PP expert during the years of a sub 15% PP, then running the forwards during their lowest scoring season in franchise history... he was Awful. It's not clear that Cheveldayoff ever knew that he was allowed to make changes, but it's not an accident that the Jets got good AFTER Pascal was demoted.

I don't really understand this character - he just sticks around despite literally never having success with a team. The last trophy he won at any level was in 1992 playing as an over-ager in the Q. He has never won any trophy as a coach in all his 23 years (why does the article say 30?). At the professional level (13 years), he has seen the playoffs twice ever - the 4 game sweep of the Jets in 2015, and a second round loss in 2018 with the Moose.

Saying that 'he' graduated a bunch of NHL quality players for the Jets is also a fantasy.

Basu lists:

Cole Perfetti - 10th overall, played 32 games under Vincent
Kyle Connor - 17th overall, a year at college, 56 games under Vincent
Logan Stanley -18th overall, 2 seasons under Vincent, still trying to establish NHL career at 26
Jack Roslovic - 25th overall, year of college, 97 games under Vincent over two years

Dylan Samberg - 42nd overall, 3 years college, 32 games under Vincent
Jansen Harkins - 47th overall, 150 games under Vincent, back in the AHL at 27
Tucker Poolman - 5th round, 3 seasons of college, 60 games under Vincent over two years
Mason Appleton - 6th round pick, 2 years college, 120 games under Vincent

He also coached guys like Kristian Vesalainen (24th overall, 88 games with Vincent) and
Eric Comrie (2nd round, 152 games under Vincent) and many more who flamed out. Kostalek, Spacek, Lipon, De Leo and on and on - guys who were late picks with promise and never made the jump from Vincent's AHL team. No one is writing to say 'Is Pascal Vincent responsible for Nic Petan not becoming a star?' I don't know the answer, but we can't say he made Kyle Connor's career while pretending the long list of guys who didn't make it aren't his fault. Good and the bad.

As you can see, the Jets like to take guys headed to college. So Vincent gets them when they are a bit older and more mature, and then the only people I think we could reasonably assume he had the chance to develop from that list are Roslovic, Harkins and Appleton. That's from 5 seasons as the Head Coach of the Moose. And contrary to Basu's assertion - the Moose top 5 scorers from his years always included 3-5 players who were AHL veterans. They were not bit players on young teams.

ALSO! The Jets have had so many problems with their young players arriving too raw - such as Perfetti and Logan Stanley! Both are still trying to nail down full-time jobs with the Jets precisely because they lack the 'professional polish' to their game that an AHL development coach with NHL experience might offer. Other examples include Sami Niku, Ville Heinola, or David Gustafsson - guys who made the jump but can't make an impact at the NHL level. We can say it's talent, not coaching. Fine, but then he doesn't get credit for a handful of 1st round picks making it to the NHL.

I know it seems like I'm this guy's biographer, but seriously - how does he NEVER suffer any of the blame for his poor work outcomes??? CBJ was a mess, no doubt. But we're talking about a guy who was 52 years old with over 20 years coaching experience, who had been an Assistant Coach with that same CBJ team for two previous years and he gave a press conference comparing their top prospects wanting to get NHL experience (and paycheques) to his 13 year old daughter wanting a new phone.

How much more learning did he need to know that was infantilizing and demeaning toward these 20 year old ELITE ATHLETES who gave up their childhoods to pursue excellence in their dreams?? He'd known those young men since the day they started with the Blue Jackets, had been at the draft table, had been at the development camps and pre-seasons with them. If I mocked my newest, youngest, and most valued employees publicly - people I helped to on-board into the company - I'd be fired for creating a hostile working environment. When does PV get held accountable for his ridiculous behaviour??

The guy is a bad technical coach with a 'bro' attitude, no education, who shows no special appreciation of what it means to be an NHL prospect, who has never won anything ever as a coach. What is it about this guy that NHL teams don't run screaming from?

What a terrible post and you eat this shit up haha.

He blew up his knee during a fight with Jesse Blacker and was never close to be the same after that. Leblanc absolutely could've carved a 3rd line winger who can take faceoffs career without that (though I reckon that would've required him to bulk up a bit).

He was terrible before that too.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

My impression is that Hughes, Gorton and co are building a culture that value respect and teamwork in the pursuit of excellence. The headcoach is expected to be the glue that hold the ship together and instill that culture. He is not given carte blanche. He is expected to lead, but most importantly to get the best out of everyone, players and staff members.

We won't have an autocratic one-man show in a coaching position as long as Hughes and Gorton are here. In that sense, I believe MTL is a far better fit for Leclaire, than CLB ever was.

Vincent, not Leclaire.

Brisebois’ savvy asset management (cap circumvention strategy) got them their 2 cups so they can thank him for that.

I wouldn’t think his dismissive treatment of long time players who gave everything to the team for so long is viewed in a positive light in the room and it doesn’t feel like he is a leader you want to give more to since he established that everyone is expendable. Talking Stamkos, McDonagh and Sergachev here.

Brisebois has been mostly terrible. I don’t know how anyone could think we are missing out on him.

 

[Tyson]

Vincent, not Leclaire.


Brisebois has been mostly terrible. I don’t know how anyone could think we are missing out on him.

Brisebois benefitted from the team Yzerman built.

 

[Treb]

Brisebois benefitted from the team Yzerman built.

Most of the guys are either from before Yzerman, after Yzerman or non-1st round pick selections (or UDFA in which Brisebois would have had a hand).

Yzerman big contributions are Sergachev and McDonagh. Thanks Montreal.

 

[Yep]

Vincent, not Leclaire.

I feel so old mixing things up like this, damn. I also partly blame high school football.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Brisebois benefitted from the team Yzerman built.

Or Yzerman benefitted from Brisebois. Yzerman looks painfully bad in Detroit

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yzerman was the GM. Who knows who actually was responsible for what ever good moves they made? Seeing what Yzerman has done with Detroit makes you wonder if Brisebois was more responsible. Some questionable moves recently but it wasn't for the flat cap they likely win more than 2 Cups.

I'm sure Yzerman is still good at what he does but he's not that top 5 or top 10 genius people thought he was. There is a lot of luck in building a team through the draft. Yzerman has not hit really big yet and his team is meh.... tracking middle of the pack strategy for years to come.

Most of the guys are either from before Yzerman, after Yzerman or non-1st round pick selections (or UDFA in which Brisebois would have had a hand).

Yzerman big contributions are Sergachev and McDonagh. Thanks Montreal.

Yzerman's best moves might be
* Adding Sergachev & McDonagh
* Hiring Cooper and Brisebois

Not sure who gets the credit for their cap management and having all those stars at under $10M. Yzerman, Brisebois, No State Tax. Probably a combo of the 3.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Or Yzerman benefitted from Brisebois. Yzerman looks painfully bad in Detroit

Detroit is progressing fine. Ken Holland left them in a mess and they’ve made progress every season. They also have a great prospect pool, despite having bad luck at the draft lottery,

Your bias is showing, or your lack of understanding.