FlyTimmo
pit <3
- Jul 10, 2013
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Part 2 2014 Flyers' Draft Talk [times and TV info in first post]
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Random Forest
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- May 12, 2010
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Yes, but it's not nearly the issue some people believe it is. For one, the kid probably never does upper body (which isn't really problematic; he'll be on a balanced workout regime moving forward), and his lower half is probably much more developed making pull ups all the more difficult. Not to mention the combine is incredibly strict with form so there's no telling how they made you start. We also don't know what exercises he had done prior.
Yeah, it's a surprising stat but it doesn't mean the scrawny 7th grader at your local middle school has even the slightest physical ability on him like some people are implying.
Milano's wing span at his height is a damn good thing. Makes him more of a possession player even for his size.
Funny cuz I want nothing to do with Virtanen or Tuch.
Give me Fiala, Vrana, Barbashev. I'd obviously love Ritchie,Nylander but there's no way they fall to us. Ritchie seems like a Flyer to me. I can see the Flyers liking Tuch but I don't want him. If we drafted Milano I'd be okay too I suppose.
Give me Fiala, Vrana, Barbashev. I'd obviously love Ritchie,Nylander but there's no way they fall to us. Ritchie seems like a Flyer to me. I can see the Flyers liking Tuch but I don't want him. If we drafted Milano I'd be okay too I suppose.
Random Forest
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- May 12, 2010
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One more time, you don't know the conditions. You don't know what exercises he had done before. You don't know the exact standards they hold you to for all these exercises (we do know that they're extremely strict, though).
Pull ups work primarily your back/lats. Neither of which make a shred of difference for a hockey player anyway. The kid's a tremendous talent, and his inability to do pull ups does not mean he will be fodder for NHL defenders to level. That's just not how it works.
And for the record, Tyler Toffoli put up 0 pull ups in his combine, also.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
Kevin Durant couldn't even do a single bench press of 185 lbs. during his draft combine after being in a year of a college weight program.
Media people & even people involved with NBA teams made a bigger deal about back then & how did that one turn out?
It was known coming into this that it was iffy at best that Bennett would be in the NHL next year because of his physical stature. It would be major mistake to let this fool you on Bennett's future when for my money he's the highest upside player in this draft. If he fell out of the top 3 like some are suggesting that would insane on those teams part.
Media people & even people involved with NBA teams made a bigger deal about back then & how did that one turn out?
It was known coming into this that it was iffy at best that Bennett would be in the NHL next year because of his physical stature. It would be major mistake to let this fool you on Bennett's future when for my money he's the highest upside player in this draft. If he fell out of the top 3 like some are suggesting that would insane on those teams part.
If anything, knowing that he's physically underdeveloped and dominating the league, you have to think that his upside is huge when he fills out.
I still want Milano. Kid seems like he's going to be a damn good player.
If anything, I'd be happy if he turned out to be like another 17th overall in the form of Hertl (not as big, but hopefully as skilled).
If anything, I'd be happy if he turned out to be like another 17th overall in the form of Hertl (not as big, but hopefully as skilled).
BillDineen
Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
- Aug 9, 2009
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My skinny 10 year old could do one pullup at 8 and can almost do three now. That is without working out. It is more surprising than anything. I guess he has considerable physical upside given the low, low base he is starting from.
Random Forest
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That's awesome. Can your skinny 10 year old do NHL Draft Combine standard pull ups after performing grueling tests that pretty much suck all the life out of you?
He's not coming from a "low, low base". He's an elite level athlete. Just because he may be lacking in one area that has very, very little to do with his sport does not mean his physical ability is lacking or in any dimension inferior to your little boy.
I've never seen Bennett, but I'd assume he's pretty bottom heavy. For someone who doesn't incorporate pull ups into his workout regimen, it's not exactly mind blowing that given these circumstances, he wouldn't be able to do one. I'd be willing to bet that if you saw him next week and told him to give you a pull up, he'd be able to do it.
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
- Nov 9, 2011
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If you watch the video showing him attempt to do the pull up, he has an upper body that looks a lot closer to what you'd expect from a starved POW in a prison camp than an NHL prospect. It's embarrassing for sure, but not that big a deal overall imo. As Button said, it shows a pretty clear are of improvement.
Only downside that it probably shows, however, is that he simply may not be ready for the NHL right now and will take sometime to get to even a low threshold of upper body strength.
CutOnDime97
Too Showman
- Mar 29, 2008
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Video of Bennett is in here if it hasn't been posted yet: http://www.tsn.ca/VideoHub/?found=combin&show=373874
Random Forest
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- May 12, 2010
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Yeah, I've seen the video, and there's not doubt he's got a small upper body, but that just confirms that he's bottom heavy.
If someone lifts nothing but legs, chances are he's not going to be able to do pull ups like someone who lifts nothing at all.
That's why I get frustrated with people bringing up their children here or saying, "I'm fat and out of shape, and even I can do better!" as if it means they have something on an elite athlete. Then factor in all the other potential circumstances surrounding the combine, and it's even less embarrassing.
It's obviously a point of weakness and an area where he stands to improve, but I don't consider it embarrassing or an issue that should negatively impact one's perception of him as a hockey player or an athlete.
BillDineen
Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
- Aug 9, 2009
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Frustrated? Ok.
No one is comparing overall ability to a soon to be professional athlete. All these guys knew the combine was coming. Not even being able to get half way in a pull up is bad and shocking. It probably means nothing to his nhl career and by the time he is a rookie, he probably will be able to do a lot, but it is shocking none the less.
Random Forest
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You're not the first I've had this conversation with.Frustrated? Ok.
People say the same stuff every year. "Oh, he only did two reps on the bench? I was repping 15 at his age!"
And the answers are always the same. You don't know what the combine standards are, and you don't know what he had done immediately prior.
He did weak relative to his peers, but it's probably not so weak in a general sense. I just find it annoying when people say that such scores are worse than what their overweight uncles or 10 year old children could do, and it seems on combine day, we get heaps of those posts.
Jtown
Registered User
I just want to say the nhl combine is one of the worst put together testing evaluations I could ever think of for evaluating a hockey player.
If i was a s and c coach for one of the teams i would instruct the Gm on which tests needed to be taken seriously and not seriously.
Vo2max test is important for any athlete, however that can be improved upon greatly. Size of the person determines how well a person can become at this. The larger the person the more volume their lungs can hold. The more oxygen they can consume.
Anerobic power is based off of size as well. A larger person has a mechanical advantage over a smaller person when it comes to power.
So a lot of these tests can be evaulated by looking at the measurements of a person.
What these test do however is determine work ethic. I can find a person off the street and get them to test well in these categories in 2 months. So if you find a player that isn't testing well then its probably because they just got finished playing and havent had time to train, or if they have had time to train they havent put in the work.
I know agents who the moment a player's season is over they make sure their client is int he gym getting ready for the combine in whatever sport. In hockey its different for some
reason. Players are really hit or miss when it comes to work ethic in the gym.
If i was a s and c coach for one of the teams i would instruct the Gm on which tests needed to be taken seriously and not seriously.
Vo2max test is important for any athlete, however that can be improved upon greatly. Size of the person determines how well a person can become at this. The larger the person the more volume their lungs can hold. The more oxygen they can consume.
Anerobic power is based off of size as well. A larger person has a mechanical advantage over a smaller person when it comes to power.
So a lot of these tests can be evaulated by looking at the measurements of a person.
What these test do however is determine work ethic. I can find a person off the street and get them to test well in these categories in 2 months. So if you find a player that isn't testing well then its probably because they just got finished playing and havent had time to train, or if they have had time to train they havent put in the work.
I know agents who the moment a player's season is over they make sure their client is int he gym getting ready for the combine in whatever sport. In hockey its different for some
reason. Players are really hit or miss when it comes to work ethic in the gym.
It has little to do with leg muscle weight or how hard he works his lower body. Even a minimal exercise program should have a component that doesn't leave parts out. Not using his back and arms? C'mon bro. He could do 35-50 lbs reps on a sitdown machine for 20 reps every other day and be able to do one pullup. That's literally 2 minutes.
This isn't basketball. Upper body strength is reasonably desired, but taking much less important tier to leg work and conditioning.
Some hockey players are downright doughy, but I'd rather draft, all other things being equal a Brindy or Weber -- someone who likes being in a gym and doesn't skip anything. I wouldn't skip up Kane for being doughy, but all other things being equal between two Kanes - I'd rather one that has some upper body strength.
It's definitely a slight knock. I'd prefer to draft pro-athletes, not just pro-hockey players.
This isn't basketball. Upper body strength is reasonably desired, but taking much less important tier to leg work and conditioning.
Some hockey players are downright doughy, but I'd rather draft, all other things being equal a Brindy or Weber -- someone who likes being in a gym and doesn't skip anything. I wouldn't skip up Kane for being doughy, but all other things being equal between two Kanes - I'd rather one that has some upper body strength.
It's definitely a slight knock. I'd prefer to draft pro-athletes, not just pro-hockey players.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
The funny thing about Bennett is that he has a good amount of sand paper to his game especially for a skilled player like himself.
This will definitely eliminate him from the top two since Reinhart & Ekblad are ready but I can't see him falling out of the top 4. If he does than I sure someone will be giddy at the other teams stupidity.
He was banged up to at the conclusion of his year so his training regiment likely didn't hit the ground & running. He still has the bulk of this summer & next summer to get bigger. I would have faith in him being ready by that time.
The kid is pretty younger compared to most of his peers in this draft & put up 90+ points as 17 year old in the OHL.
This will definitely eliminate him from the top two since Reinhart & Ekblad are ready but I can't see him falling out of the top 4. If he does than I sure someone will be giddy at the other teams stupidity.
He was banged up to at the conclusion of his year so his training regiment likely didn't hit the ground & running. He still has the bulk of this summer & next summer to get bigger. I would have faith in him being ready by that time.
The kid is pretty younger compared to most of his peers in this draft & put up 90+ points as 17 year old in the OHL.
Random Forest
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Yeah, I agree with this. But at the same time, how much does it really mean if a guy like Doughty put up 0 pull ups at LA's camp in his rookie year? I mean, he went on to have a hell of a rookie season, so maybe the takeaway here is that the difference is negligible.
All else being equal, then fine, take the guy who can do more pull ups. But are things ever so equal that it should come down to such marginal differences? That's why realistically, this won't negatively impact Bennett's draft spot. He could still go anywhere from 2-4 just like before.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
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Good thing he doesn't lift. He might have taken Laughton's head off.
I'd rather have the kid who is physically immature anyway. If you can dominate without being in peak physical conditioning, you're only going to be that much better when you get on a professional S&C program. That's why I laugh when people ding Gostisbehere as a prospect just becuase he is "too small".
I'd rather have the kid who is physically immature anyway. If you can dominate without being in peak physical conditioning, you're only going to be that much better when you get on a professional S&C program. That's why I laugh when people ding Gostisbehere as a prospect just becuase he is "too small".
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
Future Consideration's Final Rankings.
http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-releases-final-ranking-2014-nhl-draft/
Striiker
Former Flyers Fan
Milano right where we want him. Pick him and then sit on him for 2 years, then bring him up. Kapanen is falling like a rock.
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