Part 2 2014 Flyers' Draft Talk [times and TV info in first post]

[Roo Mad Bro]

I'd very easily take Perlini over any of Milano, Fabbri or Fiala. Especially the latter two. You don't build championship teams by drafting Tyrion Lannisters. And I'd easily take Virtanen over all of them. This team needs skill, yes, but we also need that skill to have size.

If Virtanen is still there at 17, and I think there's at least a small chance he is, I'd be all over that if I'm the flyers

One of Perlini's biggest knocks is that he doesn't use his size at all. He's soft.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Speaking of undersized skill players I wouldn't mind taking a flyer (no pun intended) with Vladimir Tkachev in the later rounds.

He came over late to the Q in Moncton but put a 1.50PPG average in 36 games there. He was also the kid who deked Morin out of his skates at the Super Series back in the winter.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Maybe it's just a difference of philosophy, but I would never draft one player over another for size. Maybe all else being equal, you pick the bigger guy, but rarely is that the case. That's what gets you a Hugh Jessiman. Or a Hodor to continue in the spirit.

I'm definitely not saying you should ignore size, but you can't let it be the dominating factor when comparing players at the draft when so little is known for sure.

EDIT: Especially when we're talking about guys who certainly have passable size. Milano is 5'11.5", is that really an inhibitor?

Yeah no I like Milano. I was speaking more to Fabbri or Fiala or Vrana.

My point is that if Hypothetically, Milano, Fabbri, Fiala, Vrana and Virtanen are there at 17 I take Virtanen. And that's not just based on size. I'm not suggesting that if take a player solely on size but I hear a lot of people pinpointing those smaller players when there could potentially be a guy who has a lot of skill as well, but has more size to go along with it.

Milanos size wouldn't be an issue for me, and I wouldn't mind taking him... But not if any of my previously mentioned players are still on the board. Only ones on my list I might take Milano over are Perlini and tuch.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Speaking of undersized skill players I wouldn't mind taking a flyer (no pun intended) with Vladimir Tkachev in the later rounds.

He came over late to the Q in Moncton but put a 1.50PPG average in 36 games there. He was also the kid who deked Morin out of his skates at the Super Series back in the winter.

Didn't he play with Barbashev and completely dominate some games?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Didn't he play with Barbashev and completely dominate some games?

Yeah, he played with him in Moncton as well as in tournaments with Russia.

Here's his profile:
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=211956

He could be like a Gaudreau type of pick in the middle rounds.

 

[Ryker]

Didn't he play with Barbashev and completely dominate some games?

Yeah, pretty shifty. I can't remember who he played with, but I don't think it was Barbashev. He did stand out in the games against the QJMHL, but later on he kind of disappeared at times. I think he was better against the WHL again, but you could tell he doesn't need many chances to finish. So even though he didn't necessarily buzz all the time, he definitely stung.

 

[The Rage Kage]

I decided to do some research on forwards that the Flyers have drafted in the first round since 1990.

Player - Draft Year - Overall Pick - Games Played - Points - Penalty Minutes

Mike Ricci - 1990 - 4 - 1099 - 605 - 979

Peter Forsberg - 1991 - 6 - 708 - 885 - 690

Ryan Sittler - 1992 - 7 - No Games Played

Jason Bowen - 1992 -15 - 77

Dainius Zubrus - 1996 - 15 - 1169 - 579 - 729

Simon Gagne - 1998 - 22 - 799 - 597 - 324

Justin Williams - 2000 - 28 - 755 - 498 - 497

Jeff Carter - 2004 - 11 - 564 - 410 - 320

Mike Richards - 2004 - 18 - 575 - 425 - 510

Steve Downie - 2005 - 29 - 376 - 162 - 766

Claude Giroux - 2006 - 22 - 415 - 377 - 181

James Van Reimsdyk - 2007 - 2 - 324 - 192 - 165

Sean Couturier - 2011 - 12 - 205 - 81 - 69

Scott Laughton - 2012 - 20 - No Games Played in the NHL

17th overall Forward:

Bobby Clarke - 1969 - 17 - 1144 - 1210 - 1453

(Sorry for anyone if that is hard to read)

The majority of those players haven't retired yet, so in the future it might look even better. Based on this though I'm just going to trust the Flyers organization if we draft a forward, if it's a defensemen, I might be a little more skeptical.

Doing a little more research, I found that the average Flyer forward selected in the first round will have played 548 games, through 10 seasons at 29. We've had a lot of injuries which affects that, but that's a decent success rate. The large majority of forwards the Flyers select in the first round play in many NHL games. Had Ryan Sittler not been injured so often, we may have had even more success.

I also found it interesting that Bobby Clarke was selected 17th overall, maybe we can draft someone like him again

I'm fairly confident with the Flyers Drafting forwards, only a few of those players have been arguable busts. If we go forward, I'll get behind it, even if I don't agree at first

Edit: I also don't like the argument that we should draft size, two of the best players to wear orange and black were under 6 feet tall and less than 200 pounds. We aren't going to be drafting another Lindros who has extreme skill and size, were going to be sacrificing one or the other unless you want mediocrity.

 

[renberg]

After watching the Kings, you can see how much it means to have big strong guys on the wings who can skate a bit. Its what the Flyers lack right now. some of their guys can skate but aren't big; some are big but can't skate. For that reason, they need to get someone who is over 6' who can skate and move the puck.
Nylander, Virtanen, Perlini and Ritchie would fill the bill but most likely they'll be gone at 17. Kempe would probably be there. They Flyers know him since they had his brother a few years back. He'd be a nice guy to get.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Hartnell is an underrated skater, he isn't agile but he can pick up speed, voracek is 6'3'' and is not a bad skater

 

[Broad Street Elite]

Hartnell is an underrated skater, he isn't agile but he can pick up speed, voracek is 6'3'' and is not a bad skater

Neither are good skaters though. The Flyers really don't have a single forward that would be construed as a great skater. Giroux and Read are probably the two best and I would classify them as good skaters. Schenn and Voracek are ok. Hartnell, LeCavalier, and Simmonds are average. Couturier is probably slightly below average to meh.

Gostisbehere will almost instantly be our best skater and Laughton probably is somewhere in the Read/Giroux range as a good skater.

 

[Patrick Division]

FC's final rankings

http://futureconsiderations.ca/fc-releases-final-ranking-2014-nhl-draft/

Some of note players we talked about.

Fiala 13th
Milano 17th
Tuch 19th
Sanheim outside top 30.


Its the year to get a forward. Defenders are very weak this year.

They also have Robby Fabbri at 15. He's a C but if he can play W too I would love to draft him. Reading a lot of great stuff about him but most lists have him going before 17.

 

[Harold Bingo]

Neither are good skaters though. The Flyers really don't have a single forward that would be construed as a great skater. Giroux and Read are probably the two best and I would classify them as good skaters. Schenn and Voracek are ok. Hartnell, LeCavalier, and Simmonds are average. Couturier is probably slightly below average to meh.

Gostisbehere will almost instantly be our best skater and Laughton probably is somewhere in the Read/Giroux range as a good skater.

I've always thought Voracek was one of the Flyers' best skaters.

 

[BringBackFletcher]

Neither are good skaters though. The Flyers really don't have a single forward that would be construed as a great skater. Giroux and Read are probably the two best and I would classify them as good skaters. Schenn and Voracek are ok. Hartnell, LeCavalier, and Simmonds are average. Couturier is probably slightly below average to meh.

Gostisbehere will almost instantly be our best skater and Laughton probably is somewhere in the Read/Giroux range as a good skater.

Voracek is a good to great skater. He's easily a better skater than Giroux

 

[Striiker]

Neither are good skaters though. The Flyers really don't have a single forward that would be construed as a great skater. Giroux and Read are probably the two best and I would classify them as good skaters. Schenn and Voracek are ok. Hartnell, LeCavalier, and Simmonds are average. Couturier is probably slightly below average to meh.

Gostisbehere will almost instantly be our best skater and Laughton probably is somewhere in the Read/Giroux range as a good skater.

Voracek isn't a good skater??!?


what?

 

[Prongo]

Speaking of undersized skill players I wouldn't mind taking a flyer (no pun intended) with Vladimir Tkachev in the later rounds.

He came over late to the Q in Moncton but put a 1.50PPG average in 36 games there. He was also the kid who deked Morin out of his skates at the Super Series back in the winter.

Isn't he the one that ways 134 pounds?? I know that size isn't everything but he needs to at least get to 150 to try to sustain an NHL career. Johnny hockey weighs 150 and Briere weighs 174 while both are "listed" at 5'9. A player weighing 134 doesn't have a chance lol.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Voracek is a much better skater than Giroux. Giroux is an average skater. Simmonds is better the G too.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Isn't he the one that ways 134 pounds?? I know that size isn't everything but he needs to at least get to 150 to try to sustain an NHL career. Johnny hockey weighs 150 and Briere weighs 174 while both are "listed" at 5'9. A player weighing 134 doesn't have a chance lol.

He's listed at 163lbs.

 

[Prongo]

He's listed at 163lbs.

This is what I was talking about. They have similar names.... or are they the same person lol. Seems like they are the same just spelled differently.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=454075

By contrast, Vladimir Tkachev has a tiny frame -- listed at 5-foot-9, 141 pounds -- and surely wouldn't have great physical testing numbers, yet after joining Moncton of the QMJHL late in the year, he put up 17 goals and 39 points in 26 (regular season plus playoff) games. How much should teams care about his physical stature and fitness as an 18-year-old? At past Combines, I recall seeing the likes of Toni Rajala or Mike Reilly, who both looked way too small to be pro hockey players.

Also read an article that had him at 134. Can't find it though.

 

[Broad Street Elite]

Voracek is strong on his skates, but definitely imo lacks anything resembling the kind of speed or acceleration necessary to be a "great" skater.

Regardless of whether you want to categorize Voracek as a good skater or not, the point that the Flyers are definitely a below average skating team offensively and defensively still stands. The team was abused by the rangers in that area and management made a point to state that it was an area of necessary improvement.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Voracek is a much better skater than Giroux. Giroux is an average skater. Simmonds is better the G too.

Wouldn't go that far. Simmonds has improved a lot, but he's more of a straight line guy. Not nearly as good on his edges or changing directions as Giroux. Giroux is an above average skater who plays faster due to his elite puck skills at full speed.

 

[BringBackFletcher]

Voracek is strong on his skates, but definitely imo lacks anything resembling the kind of speed or acceleration necessary to be a "great" skater.

I think you might need your eyes checked

 

[FLYguy3911]

Voracek is strong on his skates, but definitely imo lacks anything resembling the kind of speed or acceleration necessary to be a "great" skater.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=606821

You're nuts.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

This is what I was talking about. They have similar names.... or are they the same person lol. Seems like they are the same just spelled differently.

It's the same person, eliteprospects does that a lot with Russian players. They use like their actual name in Russian.

He was listed 163 lbs. on Moncton's website.

 

[Prongo]

It's the same person, eliteprospects does that a lot with Russian players. They use like their actual name in Russian.

He was listed 163 lbs. on Moncton's website.

Yea, I remember reading about him and thinking how small he was. He is 5'9 though in real height so that's a plus. He isn't 5'9 "Dnny Breire height" where he actually is 5'6 or 5'7. He does need to put on significant weight though. 150 isn't unthinkable though if he is at 141. 134 would be much more worrisome.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Yea, I remember reading about him and thinking how small he was. He is 5'9 though in real height so that's a plus. He isn't 5'9 "Dnny Breire height" where he actually is 5'6 or 5'7. He does need to put on significant weight though. 150 isn't unthinkable though if he is at 141. 134 would be much more worrisome.

He's likely going somewhere in the 3-5 range so it could be worth a gamble.