Owen Sound Attack 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

[SoupNazi]

Continued from:

Owen Sound Attack 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

Continued from... Owen Sound Attack 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

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[Millpond]

Wow.

 

[AttackBeacher]

Just a very surprising year.

At no point did I think that the team would become a 1 line team, but here we are.

First line is among the best in the league, but after that players who should be among the top in the OHL are just simply average right now. Guindon was a top 10 scorer in the league at one point last year, Servac Petrovski is very average most nights. Declan Waddick won't come anywhere near the 30 goals he scored last year. Landon Hookey, who I thought would be a 20/25 goal scorer, has struggled all year. Heading into the year the depth was the strength, the team had the most goals returning in the entire OHL, but there's just something wrong with the group, its frustrating to watch.

I feel bad for Carter, with Corbin's struggles (again, didn't see that) he has been forced to play too much and looks to be getting a bit tired.

I have to wonder if at the end of the year, baring a complete 180 degree turn, all the coaches are no longer here. Im not sure its their fault, but on paper the team should be competing for the top of the conference, but they are simply average most nights.

 

[OSattackfan]

Just a very surprising year.

At no point did I think that the team would become a 1 line team, but here we are.

First line is among the best in the league, but after that players who should be among the top in the OHL are just simply average right now. Guindon was a top 10 scorer in the league at one point last year, Servac Petrovski is very average most nights. Declan Waddick won't come anywhere near the 30 goals he scored last year. Landon Hookey, who I thought would be a 20/25 goal scorer, has struggled all year. Heading into the year the depth was the strength, the team had the most goals returning in the entire OHL, but there's just something wrong with the group, its frustrating to watch.

I feel bad for Carter, with Corbin's struggles (again, didn't see that) he has been forced to play too much and looks to be getting a bit tired.

I have to wonder if at the end of the year, baring a complete 180 degree turn, all the coaches are no longer here. Im not sure its their fault, but on paper the team should be competing for the top of the conference, but they are simply average most nights.

I agree with you on your comments. You can't keep playing the same old 3 guys in OT as the results are normally the same. A LOSS. Just my observations

 

[AttackBeacher]

I agree with you on your comments. You can't keep playing the same old 3 guys in OT as the results are normally the same. A LOSS. Just my observations

I’m not sure that they do, Jordan, Petro, Guindon are usually on the ice as well, London did the same thing back when they won in OT a month or so ago, played a handful of players.

My struggle is the lack of production and advancement of secondary players. A year older should be a year better, but they are not.

You can complain about usage but what depth player outside of McCue has earned it?

 

[ktownfan]

I agree with the above statements. I woould say you are a 2 line team, but with less production from line 2. It was obviuos last night in ot that the guys were dead tired. Barlow couldn't back check on the time back to his own zone on the rush before the goal. He was hardly in the replay screen on the goal, Goure got out muscled on the boards and then the 2 on 1. You can't blame the guys. They will take as much ice as the coaches will let them away with. No player is going to say "I'm too tired". It even leaks into the lower players, Tersigni had a few too long shifts and Mccue last night. The top line is deadly, one of the best offensive lines I've seen in a long time. But they can't do it themselves. The problem is they get regular shift, PP and PK time. Why not give a couple guys some PK, just to give them a break. They would be happy to give up a few shifts.
Waddick got 30 last year because he got tons of ice on a bad, bad team. I think he has a bad wrist right now.
Hookey although big is not really aggressive, does have a decent touch around the net. I think his best hockey was this year on a line with Stewart, but that isn't the case now. I think you try that line again, shake it up. At least get some physical play out of it. No one is afraid to run at Barlow, and it is happening

The D question always comes back to Sedley. What a telent offensively, but oh boy, defensively it is bad. That guy must play 30 minutes a night. With Steen being out the D zone is even worse and guys just seem to be running around. I've likes G Smith when he has played, but he plays so little there is no time to develop. K Smith although large is not the D man I thought he was. Out of position, bad reads, not physical, I saw him play against Fronts alot, but I didn't notice this before. I think he has good upside, but needs to focus on his zone, you can't teach 6"5'. Votary must be resigned to just watching George play, and George looks like he is getting tired. Without him there are alot more losses.
I think this coach, like the last coach is coaching for his job, Teakle looks way over his head. It is like all Jr hockey, coaches love who they love and the rest just find a small space to fit in.
Good luck to your team, looks like if they don't get it together and find a way to use some other players, the big boys will burn themselves out, and be an early spring for them

 

[PensFan101]

Just a very surprising year.

At no point did I think that the team would become a 1 line team, but here we are.

First line is among the best in the league, but after that players who should be among the top in the OHL are just simply average right now. Guindon was a top 10 scorer in the league at one point last year, Servac Petrovski is very average most nights. Declan Waddick won't come anywhere near the 30 goals he scored last year. Landon Hookey, who I thought would be a 20/25 goal scorer, has struggled all year. Heading into the year the depth was the strength, the team had the most goals returning in the entire OHL, but there's just something wrong with the group, its frustrating to watch.

I feel bad for Carter, with Corbin's struggles (again, didn't see that) he has been forced to play too much and looks to be getting a bit tired.

I have to wonder if at the end of the year, baring a complete 180 degree turn, all the coaches are no longer here. Im not sure its their fault, but on paper the team should be competing for the top of the conference, but they are simply average most nights.

Whatever it is, the mix just isn't right on this team. Too many guys have stagnated. They've had no choice but to ride their big guns but they're all being ridden into the ground. Scary to think where this team would be without Barlow scoring at an historic pace.

And really, the prognosis for next year isn't exactly rosier, with the excellent overagers we have all leaving and not being easily replaced. With his play the second half, Guindon has probably played himself out of a contract with Montreal and I think he's more likely to be back next season than not but... he hasn't exactly shown to be the difference maker that he has been in the past.

I agree with you completely that it's frustrating to watch and that there should be a cleaning out of the decision makers on the team. I won't beat a dead horse since my views on management are laid out many times in the last season thread, but this team badly needs a reboot.

Edit: also did not expect McCue to be the main piece we got back at the deadline. Konnor Smith looks like he'd really benefit from an overage season but he really has not moved the needle and I think has been more of what the team didn't need on defence. Not his fault, but rather poor analysis from the team in identifying needs.

 

[Millpond]

I'd like to see :
39-11-18
29-7-12
10-8-21
22-16-19

24-9
6-2
28-36/38

A few others injured .

This likely spells the end of the 30 win/ season streak.

Like it or not, next year begins the rebuild .

Unorthodox as it will be.

 

[HockeyPops]

You don't think they will win 5 more times in 12 attempts? That's a .417 wins per game played success rate. This season so far they have managed 25/56 or a .446 wins per game.

 

[ktownfan]

I'd like to see :
39-11-18
29-7-12
10-8-21
22-16-19

24-9
6-2
28-36/38

A few others injured .

This likely spells the end of the 30 win/ season streak.

Like it or not, next year begins the rebuild .

Unorthodox as it will be.

I don't neccesarily disagree with your top 2 lines, I don't see the value of Nansi on the third, (0 goals). I'd put Stewart or Crawford there as they are left shots and Hookey can play his right side. I think as a 3rd line it is physicality you want, and we know who provides that. You are also missing Waddick who will probably end up on the 3rd line. I like brennan, I think in a playoff game he gives you more than Tersigni, who skates fast but gets knocked off pucks and seems to lose battles in his zone. I think the top 2 lines get 80 % of the ice in the end, so does it really matter.

 

[ohloutsider]

Watched a good part of the game last night.
K Smith is playing good steady D last night. Not going to rack up the points but he is doing what he needs to help in your end.
I really liked McCue's game. You have a good one there. Can't really compare McCue to Smith. Both bring different assets to your team. You got good value in that trade.
Also I really like Nansi's game. I think he would benefit from playing up with better players.

And shifts were too long but they were trying to win .

Anyway carry on.

 

[AttackBeacher]

Whatever it is, the mix just isn't right on this team. Too many guys have stagnated. They've had no choice but to ride their big guns but they're all being ridden into the ground. Scary to think where this team would be without Barlow scoring at an historic pace.

And really, the prognosis for next year isn't exactly rosier, with the excellent overagers we have all leaving and not being easily replaced. With his play the second half, Guindon has probably played himself out of a contract with Montreal and I think he's more likely to be back next season than not but... he hasn't exactly shown to be the difference maker that he has been in the past.

I agree with you completely that it's frustrating to watch and that there should be a cleaning out of the decision makers on the team. I won't beat a dead horse since my views on management are laid out many times in the last season thread, but this team badly needs a reboot.

Edit: also did not expect McCue to be the main piece we got back at the deadline. Konnor Smith looks like he'd really benefit from an overage season but he really has not moved the needle and I think has been more of what the team didn't need on defence. Not his fault, but rather poor analysis from the team in identifying needs.

Personally I would argue that the coaches need to be purged. I don't know if its Sean Teakle's fault or not, but no forwards have progressed since he was been here. Guys like Petrovsky and Guindon are regressing if anything. He manages the forwards and generally plays the guys into the ground.

I find we sit back and allow things to happen way more then we push and make things happen, and for me thats strategy and coaching, maybe im wrong.

I think the management is good to be honest, I would look at the team they build based pretty much on drafting and argue they've done a very good job. Misses for sure, but finding Carter George in the 3rd when he was the 5th goalie taken, Taos Jordan in the 12th, Sam Sedley as a 4th. These are all pretty damn good picks. I think the trades are fair, we'd all want Gavin Bryant back but we know the backgronud there and on the surface, the Attack should have won that trade all day long. I still think they won the Hookey/Fantino trade but Hookey (understandable given his family situation).

I put alot of this on coaching to be frank and the over reliance on a handful of players. Now they are relying on those handful of players because the Waddick's, Perto and Guindon's of the world just have not progressed, but why are they not progressing? Its a broken cycle. Loosing both Hishon and Hill may be the biggest loss the team has had in the last few years. I would bet that if Letang and them where still here, we'd have a way different placement in the standings.

 

[ktownfan]

Watched a good part of the game last night.
K Smith is playing good steady D last night. Not going to rack up the points but he is doing what he needs to help in your end.
I really liked McCue's game. You have a good one there. Can't really compare McCue to Smith. Both bring different assets to your team. You got good value in that trade.
Also I really like Nansi's game. I think he would benefit from playing up with better players.

And shifts were too long but they were trying to win .

Anyway carry on.

Mccue i will agree with, but you should watch closely K Smith, Nansi has had opportunity earlier on the 2nd line for a number of games and is goalless. I think he will progress, but not his year.
Long shifts don't win

Personally I would argue that the coaches need to be purged. I don't know if its Sean Teakle's fault or not, but no forwards have progressed since he was been here. Guys like Petrovsky and Guindon are regressing if anything. He manages the forwards and generally plays the guys into the ground.

I find we sit back and allow things to happen way more then we push and make things happen, and for me thats strategy and coaching, maybe im wrong.

I think the management is good to be honest, I would look at the team they build based pretty much on drafting and argue they've done a very good job. Misses for sure, but finding Carter George in the 3rd when he was the 5th goalie taken, Taos Jordan in the 12th, Sam Sedley as a 4th. These are all pretty damn good picks. I think the trades are fair, we'd all want Gavin Bryant back but we know the backgronud there and on the surface, the Attack should have won that trade all day long. I still think they won the Hookey/Fantino trade but Hookey (understandable given his family situation).

I put alot of this on coaching to be frank and the over reliance on a handful of players. Now they are relying on those handful of players because the Waddick's, Perto and Guindon's of the world just have not progressed, but why are they not progressing? Its a broken cycle. Loosing both Hishon and Hill may be the biggest loss the team has had in the last few years. I would bet that if Letang and them where still here, we'd have a way different placement in the standings.

I agree with the coach comment earlier, Rumble hasn't been much of an upgrade if any from Walters, other than less yelling and drama. No doubt Teakle has kept his job in part to his dad being the director of scouting for the team

 

[AttackBeacher]

I'd like to see :
39-11-18
29-7-12
10-8-21
22-16-19

24-9
6-2
28-36/38

A few others injured .

This likely spells the end of the 30 win/ season streak.

Like it or not, next year begins the rebuild .

Unorthodox as it will be.

I agree with the top 2 lines, can't run the second line as is and expect more offense from them. Spread it out.

Next year may be more enjoyable honestly, lose with youth vs banging your head against the wall with frustration.

 

[Bear in the Woods]

I don't neccesarily disagree with your top 2 lines, I don't see the value of Nansi on the third, (0 goals). I'd put Stewart or Crawford there as they are left shots and Hookey can play his right side. I think as a 3rd line it is physicality you want, and we know who provides that. You are also missing Waddick who will probably end up on the 3rd line. I like brennan, I think in a playoff game he gives you more than Tersigni, who skates fast but gets knocked off pucks and seems to lose battles in his zone. I think the top 2 lines get 80 % of the ice in the end, so does it really matter.

Nansi does have 8 assists in 37 games as a rookie this year though. The goals will come.
He is a great play maker and he can keep up with the play. I think Millpond's line up is spot on.
Millpond is my vote for coach next year.

 

[ktownfan]

Nansi does have 8 assists in 37 games as a rookie this year though. The goals will come.
He is a great play maker and he can keep up with the play. I think Millpond's line up is spot on.
Millpond is my vote for coach next year.

Wouldn't be opposed, get your app in

 

[bobber]

I agree with the top 2 lines, can't run the second line as is and expect more offense from them. Spread it out.

Next year may be more enjoyable honestly, lose with youth vs banging your head against the wall with frustration.

I always found the Attack a tough team to play against for the most part every season. Looking at the GA they seem to be having an issue with the defensive side of their game. Is this a coaching issue? They just look like a better squad skill wise than meets the eye.
The GF and GA stats seems to tell a story when you look at the conference or over all league stats on the OHL site. There are a few things that contribute to these two stats and it's different for every team.

 

[AttackBeacher]

I agree with the coach comment earlier, Rumble hasn't been much of an upgrade if any from Walters, other than less yelling and drama. No doubt Teakle has kept his job in part to his dad being the director of scouting for the team

I don't know if the dad has that much pull, he's never at games. Its always DeGray and Lafortune.

 

[AttackBeacher]

I always found the Attack a tough team to play against for the most part every season. Looking at the GA they seem to be having an issue with the defensive side of their game. Is this a coaching issue? They just look like a better squad skill wise than meets the eye.
The GF and GA stats seems to tell a story when you look at the conference or over all league stats on the OHL site. There are a few things that contribute to these two stats and it's different for every team.

I think its a bit of systems, they don't do a great job of getting the puck out, they are one of the worst teams with shots against, they get hemmed in all the time. As bad as it seemed through times last year, they never got stuck in their own zone this much. I think its systems personally, but im not smart enough to say for sure.

It doesn't help that Votary has fallen off a cliff, we figured he'd be a very solid back up at worst, but he lets in 5/6 goals a game with 2/3 of them being average to poor goals against. He's the biggest surprise for me. They have a signed 07 that looked good his fist game out, it would be interesting if they looked for him to take over for Votary once his season is done.

 

[ktownfan]

I don't know if the dad has that much pull, he's never at games. Its always DeGray and Lafortune.

Has to have some, just a part of it I'm sure. I think one of the reasons they only have 2 behind the bench is they have Teakle cheap at 35-40k and still very unsure about the future of Rumble as "coach"

 

[Stellar29]

I think its a bit of systems, they don't do a great job of getting the puck out, they are one of the worst teams with shots against, they get hemmed in all the time. As bad as it seemed through times last year, they never got stuck in their own zone this much. I think its systems personally, but im not smart enough to say for sure.

It doesn't help that Votary has fallen off a cliff, we figured he'd be a very solid back up at worst, but he lets in 5/6 goals a game with 2/3 of them being average to poor goals against. He's the biggest surprise for me. They have a signed 07 that looked good his fist game out, it would be interesting if they looked for him to take over for Votary once his season is done.

I think if the plan as stated is to run Carter George every game here on out minus one of the games in the two three in three game stretches remaining it would make sense to sit him in the stands on the off day. Koprowski should join the team full time after Komoka's season ends March 2nd and can dress in George's place, whether they start Votary or Koprowski. Every little bit of rest they can work in for George the rest of the way would be a good thing in my opinion as he will be called upon big time come playoffs. If you have three goalies on the roster they should look for ways to rest George, even if it's splitting a net in practise with the third goalie. He is such a key piece for this team.

 

[AttackBeacher]

Has to have some, just a part of it I'm sure. I think one of the reasons they only have 2 behind the bench is they have Teakle cheap at 35-40k and still very unsure about the future of Rumble as "coach"

They had three and had to fire one? That’s why they have two. I assume they are still paying the old head coach? I believe most teams that fire their coach after the start of the season in the OHL don’t run to replace an assistant, especially if it’s a team with a tight budget?

 

[PensFan101]

Personally I would argue that the coaches need to be purged. I don't know if its Sean Teakle's fault or not, but no forwards have progressed since he was been here. Guys like Petrovsky and Guindon are regressing if anything. He manages the forwards and generally plays the guys into the ground.

I find we sit back and allow things to happen way more then we push and make things happen, and for me thats strategy and coaching, maybe im wrong.

I think the management is good to be honest, I would look at the team they build based pretty much on drafting and argue they've done a very good job. Misses for sure, but finding Carter George in the 3rd when he was the 5th goalie taken, Taos Jordan in the 12th, Sam Sedley as a 4th. These are all pretty damn good picks. I think the trades are fair, we'd all want Gavin Bryant back but we know the backgronud there and on the surface, the Attack should have won that trade all day long. I still think they won the Hookey/Fantino trade but Hookey (understandable given his family situation).

I put alot of this on coaching to be frank and the over reliance on a handful of players. Now they are relying on those handful of players because the Waddick's, Perto and Guindon's of the world just have not progressed, but why are they not progressing? Its a broken cycle. Loosing both Hishon and Hill may be the biggest loss the team has had in the last few years. I would bet that if Letang and them where still here, we'd have a way different placement in the standings.

Don't get me wrong I think Sean LaFortune has done a great job as director of scouting and the team has continued to punch well above their weight in terms of drafting and recruiting. The problem is we've had another generation of players come through who were let down by poor management at the roster level, and mixed coaching.

This team has the number 1 ranked power play, the top goal scorer in the league, arguably the best goalie in the league, and by far the best trio of overage players. But they're still nowhere near good enough.

To be clear I'd be okay with the scouting staff staying (and if I were king would absolutely keep them), but otherwise clean house with a new GM and new coaching staff.

I'd also say that the teams trading record the past five seasons or so, basically since Suzuki and Durzi packed their bags for Guelph, has been more miss than hit.

 

[ktownfan]

They had three and had to fire one? That’s why they have two. I assume they are still paying the old head coach? I believe most teams that fire their coach after the start of the season in the OHL don’t run to replace an assistant, especially if it’s a team with a tight budget?

I realize there is a budget. Kingston did it here this year. Fired Caputi, asst Mcfarland quit, sot hey stepped up and paid for a real coach (AHL experience) and brought in an assistant from Queens. It can be done. Two guys can't run a bench

 

[AttackBeacher]

I realize there is a budget. Kingston did it here this year. Fired Caputi, asst Mcfarland quit, sot hey stepped up and paid for a real coach (AHL experience) and brought in an assistant from Queens. It can be done. Two guys can't run a bench

In your opinion, but respectful, that's the same as anyone else on here.

You've never really answered why you care so much about the Attack? You're on here daily but never really seem all that happy about it? I probably wouldn't like other teams boards either, but Im not on them daily, Im barely on here now lol.