Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[kmart]

The off-season of 2012 was a weird point in time. How many people remember or realize that Ovi was fresh off two of his worst seasons, scoring 32 and 38 goals (78+ games in both seasons) and Stamkos was the reigning Rocket winner. And what I'm getting at here is that not only had Stamkos won his second Rocket but Ovi and Stamkos now both had two Rocket Trophies: they were even but Ovi was trending way down while Stamkos was fresh off getting 60 goals! Since then Ovi's been scoring goals at 0.616 clip and Stamkos at .504 -- oh, and Ovi got an additional seven(!) Rockets. Stamkos of course sustained some pretty bad injuries but he's still third in goals since 12-13 (2nd is, perhaps somewhat surprisingly, his draft buddy Tavares).

those years with low scoring was the result of caps front office/george mcphee losing some marbles after a few painful playoff outs. it started with forcing boudreau to coach a defensive style of hockey and ended with adam oates playing ovechkin on the right wing.

yes ovis pace went down in those years but so did the scoring of the complete team, a lot of people just look at the stats and call this time a slump... no, he was still the best producer for the caps in that time. it was an example where ovechkin sacrificed his style of play for the coaches, be it maniac oates or turtle hunter hockey... rookie coaches came in - blew their nose at ovechkins prime, got fired and till this day they never coached in the nhl again.

 

[kugelbahn]

By the way, on the topic of primary points

OV has 4 Primary Art Rosses (Kugelbahns):
07-08
08-09
09-10
(shared with Sid who scored one more goal but played 9 more games,
I say "no tiebreakers for Kugelbahns" )
14-15

McDavid has 3
Crosby has 2 (did not get it in 06-07, too many secondaries)

Somebody might have data to create yearly table, I do not, just looked at nhl.com

 

[pezpunk]

those years with low scoring was the result of caps front office/george mcphee losing some marbles after a few painful playoff outs. it started with forcing boudreau to coach a defensive style of hockey and ended with adam oates playing ovechkin on the right wing.

yes ovis pace went down in those years but so did the scoring of the complete team, a lot of people just look at the stats and call this time a slump... no, he was still the best producer for the caps in that time. it was an example where ovechkin sacrificed his style of play for the coaches, be it maniac oates or turtle hunter hockey... rookie coaches came in - blew their nose at ovechkins prime, got fired and till this day they never coached in the nhl again.

I swear Adam Oates would bench Ovie if he scored. He seemed visibly angry when it happened.

 

[Sinistril]

000-100 goals | 167 games
100-200 goals | 129 games
200-300 goals | 177 games
300-400 goals | 161 games
400-500 goals | 167 games
500-600 goals | 189 games
600-700 goals | 154 games
700-800 goals | 161 games

Extrapolating.... less than 4 seasons until 1000. How many seasons left on his contract again?

 

[kugelbahn]

those years with low scoring was the result of caps front office/george mcphee losing some marbles after a few painful playoff outs. it started with forcing boudreau to coach a defensive style of hockey and ended with adam oates playing ovechkin on the right wing.

yes ovis pace went down in those years but so did the scoring of the complete team, a lot of people just look at the stats and call this time a slump... no, he was still the best producer for the caps in that time. it was an example where ovechkin sacrificed his style of play for the coaches, be it maniac oates or turtle hunter hockey... rookie coaches came in - blew their nose at ovechkins prime, got fired and till this day they never coached in the nhl again.

right, but I think you could call 16/17 a slump, same Trotz before and after, where he scored his usual 50ish, or am I missing something?

 

[RageQuit77]

Those hockey fans who are adamantly on side of that 'generic playmaker', exactly those same dudes who cannot differentiate between quality of statistical points, who will always point to the objective fact the 'generic playmaker' is very good to make quality pass to 'a generic goal scorer', even then he doesn't show that innate quality, pointing out that the 'generic goal scorer' was the fault the perfect pass didn't resonate positively on 'the generic playmaker's' box score.

But when 'a generic goal scorer' scores without that all-permitting pass from 'a generic playmaker' it is fault of the scorer, obvious demonstration how he is "selfish".

Categorical difference is that 'a generic goal scorer' is concerned about scoring goals, and his fellow 'generic playmaker' tries to do his best to be either the goal scorer himself or make the play to his fellow generic goal scorer to ensure maximal chance for a goal to occur, the generic playmaker's fans count only

points

...to determine who is the dude!

Then everyone, fans, media, peers, FO dudes and all share trophies based on these points.

A generic goal scorer have a handicap, uphill battle from the start in the race for random trophies like Art Ross, and Hart, only because of scoring goals is so undervalued deed in the game of hockey.

Worst of it all is that everyone know instinctively the value of things, but because there exists that formula

A(if A=C then D)=B=C=D(Only If A=C) = 1 point, when

A is necessary requirement for B to exist
B is necessary requirement for C to exist

If A=C exist then D exist
While D can be A, it doesn't matter pointswise if you score a goal as A,
but when D exist pointswise, it cannot be A, even if D=A (no point)
but if A=C and thus D exist, D is C (1 point)

...

OVI! Outscore them everyway you can! All those selfwish bastards! xp

EDIT/ADD: Hockey point scoring system is in theory very easy to formalize, my fault is that I'm not a nerd, and that when trying to do such thing my alcohol consumption level is about 15 a'le coq, not best fit for the task. If some one can formalize that I would be thankful. Such formulation must include also cases of "own goal", when the goal and point is awarded to the last guy of opposing team touched the puck.

Official NHL point counting would benefit from such simple formula. Apparently.

 

[Devil Dancer]

right, but I think you could call 16/17 a slump, same Trotz before and after, where he scored his usual 50ish, or am I missing something?

Wasn't that the year Trotz reduced his ice time to save him for the playoffs?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Wasn't that the year Trotz reduced his ice time to save him for the playoffs?

He definitely played hurt as well. I believe he had the longest scoring drought of his career, 10 consecutive games without a goal

 

[Zuluss]

right, but I think you could call 16/17 a slump, same Trotz before and after, where he scored his usual 50ish, or am I missing something?

Ovechkin had a wrist injury in 16/17 as well as in 10/11. His dismal shooting percentage in those seasons shows his shot was not the same.
Luckily, he bounced back from both injuries and neither had a long-term impact - which does not happen all that often, wrist injuries did in a lot of snipers, Ovechkin's buddy Semin being a prime example.

 

[RageQuit77]

Ovi is by far in lead of TSA (total shot attempts), shots toward the goal that weren't SOG. And such stat is "new".

I remotely recall situation when I made this fact public in some old Ovi-thread few years ago.

Comment was welcomed by HC Ovi fans with that same normal disdain they (we) handle with usual Sid fanboys.

That made me concerned, as they (we) took my comment as down playing comment on Ovi's efforts.

If I recall correctly, I tried desperately explain against unresponsive wall of Ovi fans that big TSA is natural consequence when shooting in volumes. That ratio SOG/TSA is adequate measure for shot quality as that ratio operates with intrinsically bigger sample than ratio G/SOG.

It went somehow to deaf ears then. Cannot understand why. Maybe Laine was demonstrating unprecedented level in that shot quality measure then, don't know, can't recall.

Point now is that with Ovi, he break all kinds of shot related records all the time, and some of those records are both inevitable and necessary for him to be the goal scorer he is, but in an isolation can be used as an argument against him.

 

[Fantomas]

Ovi is by far in lead of TSA (total shot attempts), shots toward the goal that weren't SOG. And such stat is "new".

I remotely recall situation when I made this fact public in some old Ovi-thread few years ago.

Comment was welcomed by HC Ovi fans with that same normal disdain they (we) handle with usual Sid fanboys.

That made me concerned, as they (we) took my comment as down playing comment on Ovi's efforts.

If I recall correctly, I tried desperately explain against unresponsive wall of Ovi fans that big TSA is natural consequence when shooting in volumes. That ratio SOG/TSA is adequate measure for shot quality as that ratio operates with intrinsically bigger sample than ratio G/SOG.

It went somehow to deaf ears then. Cannot understand why. Maybe Laine was demonstrating unpresented level in that shot quality measure then, don't know, can't recall.

Point now is that with Ovi, he break all kinds of shot related records all the time, and some of those records are both inevitable and necessary for him to be the goal scorer he is, but in an isolation can be used as an argument against him.

I don't get this. A shot on the net is normally a good thing. Shooting makes things happen.

The one exception is when you miss badly and the puck bounces in a such a way that lets the opponent loose on a fast break.

 

[RageQuit77]

I don't get this. A shot on the net is normally a good thing. Shooting makes things happen.

The one exception is when you miss badly and the puck bounces in a such a way that lets the opponent loose on a fast break.

NHL counts SOG (Shots on goal)
NHL counts also TSA (Total Shot Attempts)

Expectation is that those players who have most SOG, also tend to have most TSA as natural consequence they shoot with intention to score goals.

NHL counts 'miss' when a shot is SOG, but is Ping, pong, or sproing to a bar, post...

To TSA goes all those shots that weren't SOG (including "misses").

It is obvious, that if a player shoot a lot, there will be also shots going out of SOG criteria.

For player's overall shooting accuracy it is much more demonstrative to use SOG/TSA ratio than G/SOG ratio, i.e S%. Even better is if use G/TSA, as this is the "true shooting %".

Ymmärrätkö?

Ovi's career

SOG: 6237
TSA: 11694
Goals: 808

G/SOG: 12.95% ('Shooting %')
SOG/TSA: 53.33%
G/TSA: 6.91% ('Real Shooting %')

Now. Search the %s for 'generic playmakers'.

Good source for the data: www.hockey-reference.com (uses NHL API)

 

[Fantomas]

NHL counts SOG (Shots on goal)
NHL counts also TSA (Total Shot Attempts)

Expectation is that those players who have most SOG, also tend to have most TSA as natural consequence they shoot with intention to score goals.

NHL counts 'miss' when a shot is SOG, but is Ping, pong, or sproing to a bar, post...

To TSA goes all those shots that weren't SOG (including "misses").

It is obvious, that if a player shoot a lot, there will be also shots going out of SOG criteria.

For player's overall shooting accuracy it is much more demonstrative to use SOG/TSA ratio than G/SOG ratio, i.e S%. Even better is if use G/TSA, as this is the "true shooting %".

Ymmärrätkö?

Ovi's career

SOG: 6237
TSA: 11694
Goals: 808

G/SOG: 12.95% ('Shooting %')
SOG/TSA: 53.33%
G/TSA: 6.91% ('Real Shooting %')

Now. Search the %s for 'generic playmakers'.

Good source for the data: www.hockey-reference.com (uses NHL API)

Not sure what this has to do with my post, but ok, I don't disagree with anything. Maybe I muddied things a bit when I said "shot on the net" and meant "show at the net."

 

[RageQuit77]

No worries, Dear @Fantomas, with all respects it is likely me that muddy things now. (~2.0-2.3 promilles in my veins now)

Whatever, basic stats and basic math (I mean the Basic) doesn't lie.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[COHawk]

Only 2 goals away this season from tying Mike Gartner for most 30 goal season all time (17). Ovi is already tied for the most 40 goal seasons with Gretzky (12) and 50 goal seasons with Gretzky/Bossy (9). 20 goal season will depend how many more years Ovi plays as Howe has the record at 22 (Ovi has 18).

 

[crazy8888]

I swear Adam Oates would bench Ovie if he scored. He seemed visibly angry when it happened.

I do not recall this. In fact as terrible of a coach Oates was he was actually good for Ovi in terms of getting him out of the funk he was in the previous few seasons. Im pretty sure Ovechkin still trains with Oates from time to time or at least used to. Now the team as a whole sucked because Oates was the worst coach to ever wear that title. Perhaps that's why Ovi seems angry?

I mean its not a coincidence that Oates never sniffed another HC job again. Hunter on the other hand would probably get some opportunities around the league if he wanted. His defensive style jives with some teams. But im pretty sure he never wanted to coach in NHL and wanted to live on his farm and be involved in junior hockey over there.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[Dibbs31]

Ovie with 809

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

With goal #809, Alex Ovechkin is Petr Klima goals away from tying Wayne Gretzky.

 

[M2Beezy]

809. What a beauty, like clock work

 

[authentic]

I agree that Crosby's 2016 Conn Smythe was weak. In my article ranking the Conn Smythe winners from the past 40 years I said "this is probably the weakest showing on the list".

On the other hand, Pittsburgh won due to a balanced team effort. There wasn't another player who was clearly more deserving. Someone had to win, and Crosby was arguably the best choice from an underwhelming group:

• Phil Kessel outscored Crosby 22-19. But a three point gap is small, and the only series where Kessel was clearly better was the 2nd round. Even though Crosby can be overrated defensively, he was still used in a much less sheltered way than Kessel, and got the tougher matchups. (I don't hear many people complaining that Ovechkin won the Smythe despite being outscored 32-27, so a three point difference isn't the trump card that some people claim).
• Matt Murray played well, but his save percentage was "only" 92.3%, which was much lower than what a goalie typically needs to win (the five previous winners were 94.6%, 94.0%, 92.0%, 94.5%, and 93.4%). And he missed three games, which didn't help.
• At the time, I don't recall Kris Letang being discussed as the potential Conn Smythe winner. He probably would have gotten my vote. He logged a ton of minutes in every situation (he was their #1 defenseman at ES and on the PP, and #3 on the PK). He wasn't flashy but was consistent series after series. Still, he wasn't nearly as good as Duncan Keith, who won the Smythe the year before (or Chris Pronger, who probably could have taken three Conn Smythes over the past decade, but somehow didn't win any).

I agree Crosby's 2016 Smythe was really weak by historical standards. But I wouldn't say it was undeserved, because that implies someone else deserved it more. There was no frontrunner, so the voters did the sentimental thing and gave it to the long-time captain.

(EDIT - just realized what thread this is. Maybe revisiting Crosby's 2016 Conn Smythe for the 100th time should be moved out of this thread, where we should be celebrating the historic things Ovechkin is doing).

If I rememeber correctly Letang was the best after the first 2 rounds and Crosby was the best in the last 2 and especially the finals. Kessel was in the mix for sure but it's not like him or Letang were robbed like you said.

 

[Zuluss]

With a goal tonight, Ovechkin passed Selanne on the all-time points list.

Also, just 6 more PP goals to get to 300 career PP goals, something that has never been done before (#2 on the list is Andreychuk, who has 274 PP goals, 250 PP goals would be good for #5 all-time).

 

[TJHKY]

 

[BenchBrawl]

I hope he does it.