HF Habs: Out Of Town Thread: 2024 Off-Season edition (Mod Warning #2635)

[GrandBison]

This is what I thought of the Price contract.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839647759571591652

No goalie rotations in playoffs. Rather have your star goalie well rested than trying to ajust his game count over his salary.

 

[vokiel]

The league should "incite" Buffalo to sell a portion of its stock and move to "Houston".

Change my mind

 

[GrandBison]

He still impacts that game.

Benched goalie should assist playing goalie and the rest of the team with what he's seeing. It's not like he's in the stands eating hot dogs.

 

[red devil]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839752885468328202

 

[LaP]

This is what I thought of the Price contract.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839647759571591652

That's some of the stupidest take i've seen in my whole life. The starting goalie is the player playing the most minutes in a season.

A starting goalie will play around 3600 minutes. A first line center will play around 1800 minutes. A number dman around 2100 mminutes.

So when Crosby is on the best he is useless? That's around 38 minutes a game ....

 

[Ozmodiar]

Yet a goalie impacts more minutes over the course of a season than a player or defenseman does.

All that matters is when you are competing for the cup, that goalie is playing all those minutes.

A goalie making 7m could outperform a goalie making 12m. Less likely with a 12m + forward.

Drai will take Stutzle to the woodshed every night. Ullmark vs Igor … could go either way.

Scoring leaders are mostly 8 figure players. Best, highest paid, at the top.
Goalie $$:production is all over the place.

 

[WeThreeKings]

A goalie making 7m could outperform a goalie making 12m. Less likely with a 12m + forward.

Drai will take Stutzle to the woodshed every night. Ullmark vs Igor … could go either way.

Scoring leaders are mostly 8 figure players. Best, highest paid, at the top.
Goalie $$:production is all over the place.

Not really... the top goalies are the top goalies for a reason, that's because they are consistent and will bring that level of performance traditionally every night.

The other goalies have a larger delta of performances which is not what you want as a contender.

You can win without a Shesterkin level goaltender, the same way the Hawks won with Handzus as their 2C, if the sum of the other parts are good enough, you'll have some weaknesses that can be pulled up.

Bobrovsky just went out and ripped up two playoff runs in a row, he's worth that money. While the Bruins lost to that Bobrovsky.

If you are lucky enough to have a top 5 goalie, pay the man. Igor deserves that money the same way Price did. We all know what happened whenever Price wasn't around.

Trying to shortchange a position around GP is stupid when the minute calculation is heavily skewed toward the goalie and when it matters they play every minute of every game.

 

[GrandBison]

A goalie making 7m could outperform a goalie making 12m. Less likely with a 12m + forward.

Drai will take Stutzle to the woodshed every night. Ullmark vs Igor … could go either way.

Scoring leaders are mostly 8 figure players. Best, highest paid, at the top.
Goalie $$:production is all over the place.

There are bad contracts for every position. Night in, night out, if you have Lundqvist or Price in goals, you know what kind of goaltending you're getting. I'd rather have a 10M$ Price than a 5.5M$ Anderson.

 

[LaP]

A goalie making 7m could outperform a goalie making 12m. Less likely with a 12m + forward.

Drai will take Stutzle to the woodshed every night. Ullmark vs Igor … could go either way.

Scoring leaders are mostly 8 figure players. Best, highest paid, at the top.
Goalie $$:production is all over the place.

Then the reason to not give 12 millions to a goalie is because they are inconsistent not because they sit on the bench one game every 4 games. Beside the 7 millions forward wont outplay McJesus. But the rest of his team's top 6 which is worth 7 millions more (soon) than the Oilers one might actually outplay the rest of Oilers top 6. BTW i'm not advocating giving 12 millions to a goalie just that the reasoning in the video is flawed.

 

[GrandBison]

Not really... the top goalies are the top goalies for a reason, that's because they are consistent and will bring that level of performance traditionally every night.

The other goalies have a larger delta of performances which is not what you want as a contender.

You can win without a Shesterkin level goaltender, the same way the Hawks won with Handzus as their 2C, if the sum of the other parts are good enough, you'll have some weaknesses that can be pulled up.

Bobrovsky just went out and ripped up two playoff runs in a row, he's worth that money. While the Bruins lost to that Bobrovsky.

If you are lucky enough to have a top 5 goalie, pay the man. Igor deserves that money the same way Price did. We all know what happened whenever Price wasn't around.

Trying to shortchange a position around GP is stupid when the minute calculation is heavily skewed toward the goalie and when it matters they play every minute of every game.

I think what mislead people about goalies effectiveness is that the goalie stats are mostly averages and skaters mostly totals. It gives the impression that a goalie with a .920 does the same work if he's playing 30, 40 or 50 games. A scorer could go on a 15 games draw but still score 30 goals in a season and that's all that will be remembered.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Not really... the top goalies are the top goalies for a reason, that's because they are consistent and will bring that level of performance traditionally every night.

The other goalies have a larger delta of performances which is not what you want as a contender.

You can win without a Shesterkin level goaltender, the same way the Hawks won with Handzus as their 2C, if the sum of the other parts are good enough, you'll have some weaknesses that can be pulled up.

Bobrovsky just went out and ripped up two playoff runs in a row, he's worth that money. While the Bruins lost to that Bobrovsky.

If you are lucky enough to have a top 5 goalie, pay the man. Igor deserves that money the same way Price did. We all know what happened whenever Price wasn't around.

Trying to shortchange a position around GP is stupid when the minute calculation is heavily skewed toward the goalie and when it matters they play every minute of every game.

The proof is in the pudding.

GMs have a good idea of where money should be spent. Price signed for 10.5M 7 years ago and it still hasn’t been matched.

In the meantime theses guys have been winning Cups: Keumper, Hill, Binnington, Holtby, Murray

 

[GrandBison]

The proof is in the pudding.

GMs have a good idea of where money should be spent. Price signed for 10.5M 7 years ago and it still hasn’t been matched.

In the meantime theses guys have been winning Cups: Keumper, Hill, Binnington, Holtby, Murray

It tells more about Price than anything else and he would still worth his contract.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I think what mislead people about goalies effectiveness is that the goalie stats are mostly averages and skaters mostly totals. It gives the impression that a goalie with a .920 does the same work if he's playing 30, 40 or 50 games. A scorer could go on a 15 games draw but still score 30 goals in a season and that's all that will be remembered.

Igor had .913 sv%.

If that were just .910 over 1600 shots, how many more goals is that?

 

[Ozmodiar]

There are bad contracts for every position. Night in, night out, if you have Lundqvist or Price in goals, you know what kind of goaltending you're getting. I'd rather have a 10M$ Price than a 5.5M$ Anderson.

Yes, bad contracts all over the place.

When teams dole out 8 figure contracts, they generally make sure it’s to their star player(s). It’s a little harder to be sure with goalies (check the stats), and therefore, we don’t see it.

 

[GrandBison]

Igor had .913 sv%.

If that were just .910 over 1600 shots, how many more goals is that?

Like I wrote, I don't care about sv%. How many games under 3 goals? What are his statistics with 1 goal lead? Or when the game is tie? I think that there is a lot more to explore to define what is a good or great goalie than the stats we have access to.

 

[Kimota]

Alex Bellzille waived by Rangers. Come on home, brother!

 

[Team_Spirit]

Expected goals for 5on5 23-24;

Devils; 5th
NYR; 21st

There's a reason the Devils missed the playoffs and the Rangers made it and it's goaltending. They just poured ~10M into Markstrom + Allen to fix it.

If anything having a goalie making bank saves you from making dumb moves like giving 5M to a mid goalie like Campbell and the other 5M to a washed up punk like E.Kane.

 

[Mrb1p]

So a completely different thing than what you actually said then.

Lol whatever man, I do think he is better two-way player but it won't be a significant part of his game in the NHL, but I guess you'll just call that cope and pretend I'm saying he's already Marian Hossa or something.

No I won't say any of that because I love Demidov, and there's absolutely no link between him and the Michkov fiasco. It was never one or the other.

I'm not. I understand though that Michkov picked his own destination, which you seem absolutely oblivious, too. DemiGod is happy to be with Montreal. Love him, his game, his attitude, everything.

You guys are blinded to the fact that Michkov is a little twerp. Flyers are a trash organization, though. They probably deserve each other.

Did he pick his destination or did he choose to go with the team that tried to make him feel welcome the most ?

It's all speculation again, well not the part that he liked Philly and didn't want to go to Arizona, that we knew, but the part that he would only go to philly sounds like a made up story, there's zero possible correlation.

Also thats the kind of character assasination that is pretty lame. He's a twerp, here's all the things he's reported to have done:

Punched a teammate because of a disagreement in practice.
Bullied one of his newer teammates because he got replaced by a former friend.
Famously said:
Мне было все равно, сломаю ли я его. Если они сломались, то они не смогут нам помочь, когда они нам нужны больше всего.
Which translates to " I didn't really care If I broke him. If they did get broken then they are not going to be helpful to us when we need them the most"


(Sike these are all stories about Michael Jordan, not the one with the B. in the middle, the one with the 4 NBA title and widely considered the goat athlete.)

 

[Twisted Sinister]

I'm not. I understand though that Michkov picked his own destination, which you seem absolutely oblivious, too. DemiGod is happy to be with Montreal. Love him, his game, his attitude, everything.

You guys are blinded to the fact that Michkov is a little twerp. Flyers are a trash organization, though. They probably deserve each other.

Did he? What's your source on that?

Edit: Is it Friedman? What did he say specifically? Last I heard was that Michkov wanted to go to a city where the team mattered. If he specifically didn't want to come here, our management could just have said that and avoided the 1 year old headache that this is causing and the massive future headache it's about to cause.

 

[Mrb1p]

Did he? What's your source on that?

Edit: Is it Friedman? What did he say specifically?

There's no source, we know he liked Philly and likely told Arizona he didn't want to go there.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

There's no source, we know he liked Philly and likely told Arizona he didn't want to go there.

Yeah, we knew that. Everything else is pure speculation unless someone comes out and says his team actively told us he wouldn't play here. It's also pretty obvious our management wasn't high on him anyway.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

If Michkov is supposedly 2nd best player in that draft why did 5 teams pass on him? Some may have not wanted to take a Russian but what about the rest?

Doughty has a fractured ankle. Out month to month. MB we have a d for you. All we need is a 1st round pick. We'll throw in Dvorak.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Did he? What's your source on that?

Edit: Is it Friedman? What did he say specifically?

There's no source, we know he liked Philly and likely told Arizona he didn't want to go there.

32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Hockey fans already know the name, but this is not the blog. From Sportsnet, 32 Thoughts: The Podcast with NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas is a weekly deep dive into the biggest news and interviews from the hockey world.

www.sportsnet.ca

It starts around 47 mins in. Listener asks if teams would have done things differently if they knew back then that Michkov would be able to come over in one year. Friedman says it's very clear that Michkov and his reps worked the draft in the way he wanted it to go (Philly), but hedges about saying "manipulated" because he doesn't want to bring in those negative connotations. He said that other teams would have done things differently if they knew it would be 1 year, but that Michkov and his reps & Flyers management were working to make sure nobody else realized 1 year was in play and they kept that info quiet because he wanted to go to the Flyers.

I doubt he told our management he actively didn't want to play in Montreal, but for whatever reason he wanted to go to Philly and used the uncertainty around the contract to influence his draft position. I don't personally think that's some absolutely horrible thing or that he's a snake or whatever but it is what it is.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Hockey fans already know the name, but this is not the blog. From Sportsnet, 32 Thoughts: The Podcast with NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas is a weekly deep dive into the biggest news and interviews from the hockey world.

www.sportsnet.ca

It starts around 47 mins in. Listener asks if teams would have done things differently if they knew back then that Michkov would be able to come over in one year. Friedman says it's very clear that Michkov and his reps worked the draft in the way he wanted it to go (Philly), but hedges about saying "manipulated" because he doesn't want to bring in those negative connotations. He said that other teams would have done things differently if they knew it would be 1 year, but that Michkov and his reps & Flyers management were working to make sure nobody else realized 1 year was in play and they kept that info quiet because he wanted to go to the Flyers.

I doubt he told our management he actively didn't want to play in Montreal, but for whatever reason he wanted to go to Philly and used the uncertainty around the contract to influence his draft position. I don't personally think that's some absolutely horrible thing or that he's a snake or whatever but it is what it is.

He also says in that clip "there were some places he wanted to go and some places he didn't want to go." We don't know which are which other than him wanting to go to Philly and not wanting to go to Arizona. Why wouldn't he want to play here?

 

[Whitesnake]

Never would I have predicted to see Mozart dropping a single before I see the Leafs win a Cup....