Our Defensive Shortcomings...

[MiniMoose]

We all expected Carlyle to fix this team up defensively, but I haven't seen any of this. Every time we win a low scoring game, it's because of our goalie not our players. So I would like to ask this. Are the Leafs shortcomings defensively coming from the system or just individual mistakes?

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[Grant]

Personally I think it's the players.

We've seen improvements in the number of goals allowed by our top pairing, Phaneuf and Gunnarsson who happen to be the only two people who can be relied upon defensively and been here for a while. I think the system has helped that. The other players don't seem to be showing much improvement and I think it may be because they can't play defense that well.

 

[Drew311]

Does anyone really think that the coaching staff wants the defense to make multiple glaring mistakes on a nightly basis?

 

[seanlinden]

Both.

We need a better 2nd pair, but we also need to provide substantially better support to the breakout.

 

[MiniMoose]

Yes but Carlyles 'collapse all day every day' is does have some faults. Especially against winning teams who usually unleash shots from the point and keep getting the puck back due to good board play (aka Boston)

 

[Sonofamitch]

Too many 1 dimensal forwards

 

[Diatomic]

Its Both but If I had to choose it would be the system. We have some talented D-men but when their forced to collapse everytime the puck enters our zone it takes away their speciality.

Anyone seen Gardiner from the Bruins playoff series? He's nothing like that this year. I wouldn't say its because he forgot how to skate and pinch, more so Randy has made him adapt to a defensive approach which hasn't gone his way at all. He's better at keeping offensive zone pressure while skating the puck out instead collapsing and fighting bodies in the crease.

 

[cynicism]

Both.

Either the system itself is flawed or the players are ignoring the system Carlyle wants to implement. either way it doesn't reflect positively upon Dr. Carlyle.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

I think it's the system. Every time we have a lead, they seem to sit back and react off the other team's actions instead of pushing the play. I'd be curious to see a stat for shot differential while we have the lead, while tied and while behind in the game.

 

[Holymakinaw]

We're a very young team, and our most talented players are often the kids on our team, who have little experience. We're a lot like the young Oilers, except with good goaltending.

Who cares right now?

It's coming along. We're getting better as we play each game and learn. I don't expect a Cup this year, so it's fun to watch them play and reach for another playoff appearance.

And they're getting close.

Once the young D round into form, we're going to have it all!!!

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

22 3rd period leads blown. 22! I mean the defense personnel aren't great, but are they really close to league-worst with the lead? It's hard to tell with how good Bernier has been.

 

[hockeyes]

I think it's the system. Every time we have a lead, they seem to sit back and react off the other team's actions instead of pushing the play. I'd be curious to see a stat for shot differential while we have the lead, while tied and while behind in the game.

5v5 Leading:

407 SF 612 SA 39.9%

5v5 Tied:

532 SF 717 SA 42.6%

5v5 Trailing:

500 SF 554 SA 47.4%


It's worth noting that the Leafs are 29th or 30th in all of these categories across the League, they basically get out shot regardless of the score all the time.

IMO, it's the collapse system. Majority of the SA come from the point pretty much every game. While the shots are harmless, occasionally there is the deflection or screen and one sneaks in.

 

[Mess]

Too many 1 dimensal forwards

This is certainly a contributing factor that the defense doesn't get a lot of support.

 

[cheeeko]

Too many 1 dimensal forwards

That you Drew Doughty?

 

[The Reaper]

22 3rd period leads blown. 22! I mean the defense personnel aren't great, but are they really close to league-worst with the lead? It's hard to tell with how good Bernier has been.

Close? 22 3rd period leads blown is the worst in the league

 

[Hockey Crazy]

5v5 Leading:

407 SF 612 SA 39.9%

5v5 Tied:

532 SF 717 SA 42.6%

5v5 Trailing:

500 SF 554 SA 47.4%


It's worth noting that the Leafs are 29th or 30th in all of these categories across the League, they basically get out shot regardless of the score all the time.

IMO, it's the collapse system. Majority of the SA come from the point pretty much every game. While the shots are harmless, occasionally there is the deflection or screen and one sneaks in.

Thanks. I think this says it all. Carlyle has them playing in a shell once we get the lead, and it's putting way too much pressure on our goaltending. Look at those western conference teams... there is no need for that because they own the puck all game. I know that the Leafs have certain players that thrive on the rush, but those players exist on other puck possession teams like Kane on Chicago. Carlyle has them playing this old school defensive shell and it doesn't work in today's NHL. He needs to adapt or this teams potential will be limited.

Once our young D gets better, we will have all the tools to make a cup run, but we will need a new coach to reach their full potential.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Close? 22 3rd period leads blown is the worst in the league

And yet only TWO teams in the entire eastern conference, and only EIGHT in the entire league, have more wins than us.

What does all this tell us?

That we've found ways to win, in spite of 22 blown 3rd period leads. And that that "stat" is as useless as all the corsi stats.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Tell me more about how Andrew "Regular Season Win Record Holder" Raycroft is the best goalie the Leafs have ever had.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Close? 22 3rd period leads blown is the worst in the league

but how many of those games have they won?

 

[ALEXJD93]

It's the system, being outshot was never a problem under Wilson ESPECIALLY for the Phaneuf pairing. TOSKALA, RAYCROFT, and GUSTAVSSON were the problems.

Edit: All Carlyle teams tend to give up more shots, but to be fair, the players aren't exactly playing it perfectly either I would imagine, but something that Carlyle could possibly think about adapting to

 

[cynicism]

And yet only TWO teams in the entire eastern conference, and only EIGHT in the entire league, have more wins than us.

What does all this tell us?

That we've found ways to win, in spite of 22 blown 3rd period leads. And that that "stat" is as useless as all the corsi stats.

Yeah, I guess stats are useless if you lack the modest intellectual capacity needed to comprehend them.

And all those blown leads possibly couldn't backfire in the playoffs could they? That could never happen. I mean, if you play with fire, it's impossible you'll ever get burnt. Or if you engage in risky behaviour, it could never possibly hurt you in the end. I mean, I might drink 1 mickey of vodka in the morning 6 days in the week, and I don't have any liver problems now, so, I'll be fine for the rest of my life.

It's called denial.

 

[Espher]

My favourite part is some of the "blown" leads have come in games where we've been trailing going into the third, come back to tie it and/or snag the lead, and gone back and forth with other teams in crazy third period hockey only to end up in OT/SO. I know there are plenty of times where we've gone into the third with a lead and blown it, but it sure as **** hasn't been 22 times. If we're down 3-1 going into the third, come back to take the lead 4-3, and the game ends up 5-5 going to OT, it's worth noting that we get +2 to that stat despite rallying.

 

[mikebel111*]

Both IMO
but mostly on the players.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Yeah, I guess stats are useless if you lack the modest intellectual capacity needed to comprehend them.

And all those blown leads possibly couldn't backfire in the playoffs could they? That could never happen. I mean, if you play with fire, it's impossible you'll ever get burnt. Or if you engage in risky behaviour, it could never possibly hurt you in the end. I mean, I might drink 1 mickey of vodka in the morning 6 days in the week, and I don't have any liver problems now, so, I'll be fine for the rest of my life.

It's called denial.

LOL. Nice.

And why do you and your comrades continue to deny that we're a very young team, prone to mistakes, but gaining more experience with each passing game? And soon all these talented young guys that we have will have more playoff experience as well.

You assume, and wrongly so, that we will never get better. That only bad things will happen to us, and that it'll all come crashing down.

But as young guys like Kadri, Holland, JVR, Gardiner & Reilly all gain more and better experience, why can we not improve? NONE of those guys will ever get any better in your mind?

Meh.

Your way is ONE way to look at it, I suppose.

I prefer the RIGHT way, myself.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Close? 22 3rd period leads blown is the worst in the league

But not the actual worst team when it comes to goals against in the 3rd. So at least theres that!