OT: OT Thread Part 9: Offseason Playground

[Fixed to Ruin]

Hopefully Albertans don't start protesting outside hospitals.

They are at the Royal Alexandra.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Guess the kicker is, it doesn't have to still be like this. It's not like the spanish flu where you're just waiting for the day the virus infects everyone and there's nothing you can do about it. AB is an embarrassing clown show right now. And the trickle down effect of the unvaccinated on others that need care keeps getting worse.

In terms of unvaccinated AB isn't much different than anywhere else in the nation. The only difference is we have more of the age group here, young, too young to get vaccine or mostly 20's that do not bother to get vaccinated and we are a blue collar working class province where most of our industry is hands on, and not distanced, and that more people contract Covid at work.

Those are Albertas challenges and its not our fault, or our failure. Its the expected results. If you want some clown show look at Quebec through the pandemic. Alberta was always going to have a lot of cases of Covid. That was pretty unavoidable. At least we've mitigated fatality numbers, relative to other provinces.

 

[Senor Catface]

Someone was asking for this information previously. It's the percent fully vaccinated per province/territory.

You can find it here, for future reference.

COVID-19 vaccination coverage in Canada - Canada.ca

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They are at the Royal Alexandra.

I suppose I shouldn't have given them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[bellagiobob]

They are at the Royal Alexandra.

Hard to tell which ones are protesting and which ones are sick and suddenly love science and are lined up for their bed in the overflowing ICU.

 

[oobga]

In terms of unvaccinated AB isn't much different than anywhere else in the nation. The only difference is we have more of the age group here, young, too young to get vaccine or mostly 20's that do not bother to get vaccinated and we are a blue collar working class province where most of our industry is hands on, and not distanced, and that more people contract Covid at work.

Those are Albertas challenges and its not our fault, or our failure. Its the expected results. If you want some clown show look at Quebec through the pandemic. Alberta was always going to have a lot of cases of Covid. That was pretty unavoidable. At least we've mitigated fatality numbers, relative to other provinces.

Our vaccine rate has been lagging other highly populated provinces hasn't it? By almost 10% in some age groups. I think the big issue hitting us now is mass spread in areas outisde of the cities with high %'s of unvaccinated people. This is the kind of info it's hard for the average joe to try to get and make a judgement on, but something that should have got the attention of our officials.

From what I heard from people working at the royal alex, the vast majority of ICU patients that fill them up were from the north, shipped into Edmonton for care (lots of those are now having to bypass Edmonton and go to Calgary). Maybe this is happening to some degree in other provinces, but no one got an ICU flood like AB did in this delta wave. We took our eye off the ball completely while we had these barely vaccinated areas outside our cities which must have had lots of unvaccinated older folks just sitting there like a ticking time bomb before delta washed through them.

I agree, Quebec was a joke early on. We're the joke right now. Sounds like another 30+ added to ICU over the weekend. Will be AB's highest amount since the start of the pandemic.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Hard to tell which ones are protesting and which ones are sick and suddenly love science and are lined up for their bed in the overflowing ICU.

Apparently, he's trolling the other protesters.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Our vaccine rate has been lagging other highly populated provinces hasn't it? By almost 10% in some age groups. I think the big issue hitting us now is mass spread in areas outisde of the cities with high %'s of unvaccinated people. This is the kind of info it's hard for the average joe to try to get and make a judgement on, but something that should have got the attention of our officials.

From what I heard from people working at the royal alex, the vast majority of ICU patients that fill them up were from the north, shipped into Edmonton for care (lots of those are now having to bypass Edmonton and go to Calgary). Maybe this is happening to some degree in other provinces, but no one got an ICU flood like AB did in this delta wave. We took our eye off the ball completely while we had these barely vaccinated areas outside our cities which must have had lots of unvaccinated older folks just sitting there like a ticking time bomb before delta washed through them.

I agree, Quebec was a joke early on. We're the joke right now. Sounds like another 30+ added to ICU over the weekend. Will be AB's highest amount since the start of the pandemic.

Again, per population Alberta has MORE people that are too young for vaccine, i,e, under 12, and we have an inordinate amount of the great unwilling, mostly those are found in the 20 something age bracket.

Its why I find the percent of pop stats misleading. of course its going to vary, also, on the basis of which provinces have an abundance of which age groups.

In terms of vaccination rates Alberta is hit two ways. It has the smallest set of older people (those most likely to get vaccinated,) and the largest amount of youth (those lease likely to be vaccinated) In some of this, Sask, and Manitoba also.

Our West | Canada’s Younger, Western Population | Canada West Foundation (cwf.ca)


So that it isn't an An Alberta specific dynamic. its borne on what population demographics Alberta has. That explains most of the differential seen. The under age 12 pop alone explains a lot of it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Apparently, he's trolling the other protesters.

If this is allowed then this should be as its OT, but just as much a sign of the times.

Edmonton Journal ePaper

Carla Peck, a U of A professor, is behind a lot of this local movement. She's one of these experts in Diversity inclusion. Predictably she has wild claims about how bad the curriculum draft is, translation, it isn't written for her benefit and her statements are ridiculous. Anybody can read it or her comments on twitter. Prepare to have a headache.

She's an "expert" but can't even bother to communicate in proper English, has biased opinions, is in no way seeking any balance in her views, and she's that all out there with her PHd making unsubstantiated statements and leading the selective rabble.

lol that the article displays the protest as so huge. There wasn't 100 people there. For a lark we checked. We we're in the area anyway.

hey most of us, the actual silent plurality, are happy if kids get back to learning and actual education. With a little less indoctrination. Ironically what one of the placards says. I resisted the impulse to speak with these people.

 

[Spawn]

Again, per population Alberta has MORE people that are too young for vaccine, i,e, under 12, and we have an inordinate amount of the great unwilling, mostly those are found in the 20 something age bracket.

Its why I find the percent of pop stats misleading. of course its going to vary, also, on the basis of which provinces have an abundance of which age groups.

In terms of vaccination rates Alberta is hit two ways. It has the smallest set of older people (those most likely to get vaccinated,) and the largest amount of youth (those lease likely to be vaccinated) In some of this, Sask, and Manitoba also.

Our West | Canada’s Younger, Western Population | Canada West Foundation (cwf.ca)


So that it isn't an An Alberta specific dynamic. its borne on what population demographics Alberta has. That explains most of the differential seen. The under age 12 pop alone explains a lot of it.

Age demographics don’t explain it. Alberta is ~8% behind the rest of the country in terms of eligible population. Children aren’t being factored into the numbers. And that ~8% persists regardless of which age range of young adults you want to look at.

Fully vaccinated %
Canada wide:
12-17 - 69.24%
18-29 - 64.39%
30-39 - 69.81%

Alberta wide:
12-17 - 61.09%
18-29 - 56.36%
30-30 - 61.65%

The gap shrinks the older the age groups get, but Albertans are consistently behind their respective counterparts in the rest of the nation regardless of age range.

COVID-19 vaccination coverage in Canada - Canada.ca

I won’t attempt to debate what the difference between Alberta and the rest of the country is. But it isn’t age.

 

[oobga]

Age demographics don’t explain it. Alberta is ~8% behind the rest of the country in terms of eligible population. Children aren’t being factored into the numbers. And that ~8% persists regardless of which age range of young adults you want to look at.

Fully vaccinated %
Canada wide:
12-17 - 69.24%
18-29 - 64.39%
30-39 - 69.81%

Alberta wide:
12-17 - 61.09%
18-29 - 56.36%
30-30 - 61.65%

COVID-19 vaccination coverage in Canada - Canada.ca

I won’t attempt to debate what the difference between Alberta and the rest of the country is. But it isn’t age.

Vaccination differences in young people would only explain case numbers too. The bad miscalculation and failure here has resulted in a new ICU number high since the start of the pandemic. There were enough older people unvaccinated in pockets of the province that they are now flooding in in a hurry. I don't think you can really just blame that on young people. Apparently people in charge of calculating risks didn't see this coming at all.

 

[Fourier]

Again, per population Alberta has MORE people that are too young for vaccine, i,e, under 12, and we have an inordinate amount of the great unwilling, mostly those are found in the 20 something age bracket.

Its why I find the percent of pop stats misleading. of course its going to vary, also, on the basis of which provinces have an abundance of which age groups.

In terms of vaccination rates Alberta is hit two ways. It has the smallest set of older people (those most likely to get vaccinated,) and the largest amount of youth (those lease likely to be vaccinated) In some of this, Sask, and Manitoba also.

Our West | Canada’s Younger, Western Population | Canada West Foundation (cwf.ca)


So that it isn't an An Alberta specific dynamic. its borne on what population demographics Alberta has. That explains most of the differential seen. The under age 12 pop alone explains a lot of it.

The numbers being quoted are for 12+ so the fact that Alberta might have more people under 12 does notimpact these percentages. Moroever while median age in Alberta is just 2.9 years younger than that of Ontario if you remove those under 12 it is almost the same. In fact, in the age group 12-29 where the least vaccinated typically are, Alberta has 22% of its population in this range vs 23% for Ontario.

Your age argument may explain a % or two but not nearly the difference there currently is between provinces.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Apparently, he's trolling the other protesters.

The sad thing is that those being trolled probably don't realize it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Age demographics don’t explain it. Alberta is ~8% behind the rest of the country in terms of eligible population. Children aren’t being factored into the numbers. And that ~8% persists regardless of which age range of young adults you want to look at.

Fully vaccinated %
Canada wide:
12-17 - 69.24%
18-29 - 64.39%
30-39 - 69.81%

Alberta wide:
12-17 - 61.09%
18-29 - 56.36%
30-30 - 61.65%

The gap shrinks the older the age groups get, but Albertans are consistently behind their respective counterparts in the rest of the nation regardless of age range.

COVID-19 vaccination coverage in Canada - Canada.ca

I won’t attempt to debate what the difference between Alberta and the rest of the country is. But it isn’t age.

Why not look at the numbers that do not include 12 and under?

In that case this proportion of Albertans are vaccinated;

• 79.2 percent of 12+ population has received at least one dose (67.4% total population)
• 71.2 percent of 12+ population fully vaccinated (60.5% total population)

In the Stats Canada page just switch to over 12 and AB falls more within the range of other provinces, and again AB contains an abundance of younger population that are least likely to be vaccinated, and not as many seniors who are most likely to be vaccinated. I mean its easy for provinces like PEI to look good in all this.

I don't see any graph or stat there that AB is trailing in Vaccination relative to other provinces broken down into all age cohorts. Where is that data? Where did you get the numbers above?

 

[Stoneman89]

We must be getting low on nurses now. Heard from a friend that has been working a 8-4 job in a clinic for a decade and a half, almost no floor experience, that they were pressured to work on a COVID unit. What the hell? Thought they were taking floor nurses to COVID unit and then taking clinic nurses to backfill those positions. Now directly from clinic to COVID care? What a mess. She is already swamped with work after losing 1/3 of the nurses in her area too. This would leave 1 person for a 3 person job. Lots of patients that need consistent management of their conditions from her clinic will suffer.

Again, my earlier point to Draisaitl - robbing Peter to pay Paul, until you run out of Peters, and then the whole system goes to shit. Getting very close to that now.

 

[Stoneman89]

I suppose I shouldn't have given them the benefit of the doubt.

Ironic that some of those protesting will ultimately and eventually wind up in the hospital suffering from either Covid or something else and be looked after by the very nurses they are abusing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Ironic that some of those protesting will ultimately and eventually wind up in the hospital suffering from either Covid or something else and be looked after by the very nurses they are abusing.

This pandemic has exposed a loooot of stupidity in the human race.

 

[Stoneman89]

Why not look at the numbers that do not include 12 and under?

In that case this proportion of Albertans are vaccinated;

• 79.2 percent of 12+ population has received at least one dose (67.4% total population)
• 71.2 percent of 12+ population fully vaccinated (60.5% total population)

In the Stats Canada page just switch to over 12 and AB falls more within the range of other provinces, and again AB contains an abundance of younger population that are least likely to be vaccinated, and not as many seniors who are most likely to be vaccinated. I mean its easy for provinces like PEI to look good in all this.

I don't see any graph or stat there that AB is trailing in Vaccination relative to other provinces broken down into all age cohorts. Where is that data? Where did you get the numbers above?

Did you not even look at Senor Catfaces' earlier post?

 

[Senor Catface]

Did you not even look at Senor Catfaces' earlier post?

Blocked bro.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The numbers being quoted are for 12+ so the fact that Alberta might have more people under 12 does notimpact these percentages. Moroever while median age in Alberta is just 2.9 years younger than that of Ontario if you remove those under 12 it is almost the same. In fact, in the age group 12-29 where the least vaccinated typically are, Alberta has 22% of its population in this range vs 23% for Ontario.

Your age argument may explain a % or two but not nearly the difference there currently is between provinces.

Not following the logic of removing the 12 and under population to obtain the statistic YOU want.

Median age difference of 2.9 is huge. Enough to make it a significant factor.

Obviously the least vaccinated are 12 and under. They obviously skew the stats when people are using percent of total pop stats.

I think the age argument could explain a fair amount of the data. Would need better numbers, across all categories to get more of a sense of how much.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Did you not even look at Senor Catfaces' earlier post?

No, by choice I don't see that posters posts, thanks for asking.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Not following the logic of removing the 12 and under to obtain the statistic YOU want.

Median age difference of 2.9 is huge. Enough to make it a significant factor.

Obviously the least vaccinated are 12 and under. They obviously skew the stats when people are using percent of total pop stats.

I think the age argument could explain a fair amount of the data. Would need better numbers, across all categories to get more of a sense of how much.

Why wouldn't you remove the 12 and under group when discussing vaccination rates.

Zero sense to keep them included considering they aren't eligible to be vaccinated.

 

[Senor Catface]

Considering I have the poster on ignore, and almost always do, no, I don't think so.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Why wouldn't you remove the 12 and under group when discussing vaccination rates.

Zero sense to keep them included considering they aren't eligible to be vaccinated.

I think you're confused. I'm the one arguing that 12 and under should NOT be included in the vaccination rates

. Fourier was REMOVING the 12 and unders in citing a statistic about age difference. I specifically asked why do that. Thats completely a different thing.

I'm all for vaccine percentage stats that are above age 12. For the reasons you mention.

 

[Fourier]

Not following the logic of removing the 12 and under to obtain the statistic YOU want.

Median age difference of 2.9 is huge. Enough to make it a significant factor.

Obviously the least vaccinated are 12 and under. They obviously skew the stats when people are using percent of total pop stats.

I think the age argument could explain a fair amount of the data. Would need better numbers, across all categories to get more of a sense of how much.

The numbers from Senor Catface were for 12+ so why would you suggest that they could be explained by Alberta having more under 12's. (I just saw that you sid you did not see them. )

YOu might think this but it is not mathematically possible to explain even a fraction of teh difference based on age differences. The only wy it might work is if the percentage of the population in 12-29 range was significantly higher in Alberta. But in fact that percentage is higher in Ontario.

Even with the differences in the under 12 population this would not have more than a small impact on the total population numbers about 2%.