OT: MLS closing in on NFL, NBA, MLB in U.S. - Landon Donovan

[Bookie21]

MLS had 12 teams in 2006, has 24 now, 28 in two years, and the commissioner just started he wants to go to 40 teams. Where the hell are they going to find the talent? NHL has added one team in the last 20 years (Vegas), and I think with Seattle coming in a couple years, we risk diluting the product a little, and that's 2 teams in 25 years. What the MLS is doing is very irresponsible for the league, from a talent perspective. They're going for short term gains with the collection of expansion fees, over a long term healthy and competitive talent base

 

[eddygee]

Agreed. If MLS could have kept it to 15-20 teams, maybe they could have cracked the top 10. They got greedy and money hungry and added teams at an unrealistic pace and the product got watered down. Right now MLS is ranked world wide in the 18-22 range. This won't change

It's about 12-13 range just behind Liga MX any list that has it below middling Euro leagues like the Czech/Polish/Scandinavian leagues as well as below Asian leagues like the J-League or CPL can't be taken seriously and speaks to the fact of bias and only watching and knowing only about the top 2-3 leagues.

People often will make the mistake of thinking any middling Euro league is better than MLS simply because they seen a team from one of those leagues plays in Champions League. While Champions League features some of the best teams in the world it's merely a league for a set amount of top teams from UEFA to play in. The number of teams from those leagues be it /3/4/5 teams are set on a coefficient rating. Simply put, if MLS was a league located in UEFA's confederation they'd too have teams playing in UEFA Champions League.

My Top 20 or so Top Flight Leagues Who You Got?
1. La Liga (Spain)
2.EPL (UK)
3.Serie A (Italy)
4.Bundesliga(Germany)
5.Ligue 1(France)
6.Turkish
7.Portuguese
8.Liga Do (Brasil)
9.Argentine
10.RPL(Russian)
11.Greek
12.Liga MX (Mexico)
13. MLS (US)
14.Eredivisie(Dutch)
15.Ukranian
16.CPL(Chinese)
17.Colombian
18.JLeague (Japanese)
19.Norwegian
20.Danish
21.Uruguay
22.Swedish
23.SPL (Scottish)
24.A-League (Australian)
25.KLeague (Korean)

 

[eddygee]

MLS had 12 teams in 2006, has 24 now, 28 in two years, and the commissioner just started he wants to go to 40 teams. Where the hell are they going to find the talent? NHL has added one team in the last 20 years (Vegas), and I think with Seattle coming in a couple years, we risk diluting the product a little, and that's 2 teams in 25 years. What the MLS is doing is very irresponsible for the league, from a talent perspective. They're going for short term gains with the collection of expansion fees, over a long term healthy and competitive talent base

#Fakenews the commissioner never said that. I don't agree with your assessment of MLS at all. MLS is aiming for 32 teams. They set to 24 teams and said they stop at 28 no one believed it and thought the league would go to 30-32. Well now that 28 is about wrapped up that Don Garber announced that the league would looked at the feasibility problem of expanding beyond 28 teams. Going from past experience of talk MLS following the league closely the past 14 yrs MLS will announce teams 29-30 right before the TV deal to boost TV money then announce teams 31-32 right after the TV deal to generate buzz.

The 40 teams remark was in a interview with a coach who stated he had no insight it was just his opinion a tongue in cheek one at that. Not one legit person in sports has ran with that.

 

[eddygee]

Agreed. If MLS could have kept it to 15-20 teams, maybe they could have cracked the top 10. They got greedy and money hungry and added teams at an unrealistic pace and the product got watered down. Right now MLS is ranked world wide in the 18-22 range. This won't change

While I agree that the diluted product was true in the earlier yrs when the league was coming off of having to paying networks to broadcast games and then finally getting about $18 mil yr for a TV deal this hasn't been a issue in years. People keep rehashing of tired lazy reasons of something that was once true yrs ago but is no longer valid.
MLS now has more salary budget than it had in the earlier yrs when it started expanding in the mid to late 00s the salary budget then was between 2-3 mil per team. Now the salary budget ranges anywhere from 6mil the lowest team to 27mil the top spending team thanks to a larger TV deal thanks to EXPANDING and increasing it's TV footprint.

Guess what's also happened in that time frame MLS has went from barely a top 40 league to about a Top 12-13 they've increased sponsorahips each cycle TV deal went from 18 to 90 mil yr with another huge bump on the way in 2022 they just signed a renewed league kit deal with Adidas going from 25 to 117 mil yr that will expire a year after the TV deal.

Not expanding wouldn't have brought us Seattle, Atlanta Toronto, Portland, LAFC, or soon to be Cincinnati. Some people just have small minded thinking. Thinking MLS shouldn't expand in a country of 330m like it's other sibling leagues NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL while evidence has already shown it's helped grow the league in every category revenue/popularity/on field product is truly a #hottake and just wrong on so many levels.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

The lowest team payroll in MLS is actually 5.6 million

MLS team payrolls for 2018: Toronto FC leads the way, Portland Timbers rank sixth

Most teams appear to be losing money and that is with all the expansion money rolling in.

I'm sure the TV contract will bring a reasonable increase but I have my doubts that it will stem the tide of red ink many franchises are experiencing at this point. Ratings have improved, but not all that significantly in the grand scheme of things. Improving numbers by 50% or more at first glance may seem impressive, but when starting with such a low TV audience it really is not. In all likelihood, it will probably take another decade or more of similar increases before a substantial national TV contract that pays each team more then $15 million occurs.

In the meantime, teams are largely gate dependent and several are struggling with poor crowds and less then ideal stadiums (due to quality of facilities or limited revenue streams thanks to lease arrangement).
Montreal is a good example of this - they have a cheap stadium with limited high end seating options and a low season ticket base. They have been losing tens of millions in recent years and things will not get better unless a) Saputo gets tax breaks (and probably some public funds) to invest and additional $50 million in the stadium and b) there is a significant increase in the number of season ticket holders - a tough ask, given the fickle nature of Montreal sports fans.

Right now, the Impact's gate is 1/4 that of Atlanta's which likely means it is 1/2 of that of most teams in the MLS. If things continue as they are, the Impact's financial struggles will become even more pronounced and the team will likely be moved or contracted altogether. This is something the commissioner will have to address at some point - the growing competitive imbalance in the league that extends far beyond Montreal to several teams. That will not be solved by a mediocre national TV Contract. Further revenue sharing will be required to maintain viability and a reasonable competitive balance.

As it stands, it is not conceivable for the league to maintain it's health at 28 teams, as forecasted in the near term, given the trouble with attendance in many markets (numbers are massively padded thanks to massive giveaways). There is a good chance some of these teams will need a safe landing spot in the coming decade, in the absence of a significant tv deal. Expanding to too many markets eliminates soft landings for struggling teams in need of relocation.

Of course, greater revenue sharing could mitigate the financial problems of those lower revenue teams. Maybe we will have a better idea in the next 5 years when the expansion money has dried up.

 

[eddygee]

The lowest team payroll in MLS is actually 5.6 million

MLS team payrolls for 2018: Toronto FC leads the way, Portland Timbers rank sixth

Most teams appear to be losing money and that is with all the expansion money rolling in.

I'm sure the TV contract will bring a reasonable increase but I have my doubts that it will stem the tide of red ink many franchises are experiencing at this point. Ratings have improved, but not all that significantly in the grand scheme of things. Improving numbers by 50% or more at first glance may seem impressive, but when starting with such a low TV audience it really is not. In all likelihood, it will probably take another decade or more of similar increases before a substantial national TV contract that pays each team more then $15 million occurs.

In the meantime, teams are largely gate dependent and several are struggling with poor crowds and less then ideal stadiums (due to quality of facilities or limited revenue streams thanks to lease arrangement).
Montreal is a good example of this - they have a cheap stadium with limited high end seating options and a low season ticket base. They have been losing tens of millions in recent years and things will not get better unless a) Saputo gets tax breaks (and probably some public funds) to invest and additional $50 million in the stadium and b) there is a significant increase in the number of season ticket holders - a tough ask, given the fickle nature of Montreal sports fans.

Right now, the Impact's gate is 1/4 that of Atlanta's which likely means it is 1/2 of that of most teams in the MLS. If things continue as they are, the Impact's financial struggles will become even more pronounced and the team will likely be moved or contracted altogether. This is something the commissioner will have to address at some point - the growing competitive imbalance in the league that extends far beyond Montreal to several teams. That will not be solved by a mediocre national TV Contract. Further revenue sharing will be required to maintain viability and a reasonable competitive balance.

As it stands, it is not conceivable for the league to maintain it's health at 28 teams, as forecasted in the near term, given the trouble with attendance in many markets (numbers are massively padded thanks to massive giveaways). There is a good chance some of these teams will need a safe landing spot in the coming decade, in the absence of a significant tv deal. Expanding to too many markets eliminates soft landings for struggling teams in need of relocation.

Of course, greater revenue sharing could mitigate the financial problems of those lower revenue teams. Maybe we will have a better idea in the next 5 years when the expansion money has dried up.

I appreciate your thought out response here's some additional info below

MLS Wages 2007-present

Complete salaries ranging from 5.9 to 26.6 mil at the bottom the actual salary budget not counting DPs is around 8.5 mil though but teams don't have to spend that much at the bottom. The cheapest team Houston spent 5.9 while the next cheapest spent 7.5.

I'd caution on the doom and gloom of MLS losing money w/ the health of the league relying on expansion fees stuff. Why?...It's just not believable it's "accounting losses" I don't buy it and many don't, for instance Impact owner Joey Saputo is angling for public assistance money for Stadium funds. If the team was losing tens of millions and they were in utter despair they'd be at the bare bottom of league spending instead of 6th of 23 teams surely if you were in that bad a shape you'd be a complete budget team looking to cut cost aboard to increase revenue. Each team is making about 38 mil per yr in revenue.

As far as the TV front you might be right but a TV deal in 2022 at $420m yr would put teams at $15 mil a yr. Who knows but I see people making a lot of definites and never proclamations. MLS has consistently proven people wrong when it comes to its viability and forecast of its finances. MLS does send out mix messages to fit its needs though I must admit. When it's CBA time they send the notice to any owner who can put in a somewhat believable claim to scream poor house. When other times they brag about the great financial success of the league with it's sponsors.
Here is a very good interview (last week) with MLS Commish Don Garber
Garber on MLS expansion, owners, new CBA, more

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Saputo is willing to lose tens of millions for now because the increase in the value of the team has outpaced losses. Given their poor showing last year, I can see losses increasing. Like I said, Montreal is a fickle market and with two non-playoff seasons in a row, I think gate revenue will decrease. Of course, Saputo may very well cut costs to limit his losses. I still stand by the statement - Montreal will be a prime relocation candidate in the coming years without a substantial stadium upgrade and corresponding increase in ticket sales. If Montreal gets a MLB franchise, things will only become more difficult for the Impact.

Vancouver looks to also be in a precarious position. The play in a stadium for which they do not receive all the revenues - no stadium naming rights, only a share or 0% of concessions, no parking revenues from surrounding parkades, no revenues derived from other events at the stadium. Actual crowds are several thousand less then reported as stated in a newspaper article using the Freedom of Information Act to gain info. They have basically maxed out their revenue and are at or near the bottom of the league already. If they are unable to finance their own stadium to improve their revenues in the future (5 - 7 years) they are also likely to relocate.

Major League Soccer's Most Valuable Teams 2018: Atlanta United Debuts On Top

Most teams are losing money and that doesn't appear to be changing any time soon. I guess teams will hope there is a big tv contract at the end of all this to ease the pain of what are likely cumulative losses of hundreds of millions from most of the teams over the past couple decades. Until then, they will have to rely on these expansion fees lessen the blow.

 

[frivolousz21]

It's going to be a huge problem selling MLS as a top flight league when young stars continually get sold to foriegn clubs.


This is why this isn't some expotential trajectory.

 

[eddygee]

Saputo is willing to lose tens of millions for now because the increase in the value of the team has outpaced losses. Given their poor showing last year, I can see losses increasing. Like I said, Montreal is a fickle market and with two non-playoff seasons in a row, I think gate revenue will decrease. Of course, Saputo may very well cut costs to limit his losses. I still stand by the statement - Montreal will be a prime relocation candidate in the coming years without a substantial stadium upgrade and corresponding increase in ticket sales. If Montreal gets a MLB franchise, things will only become more difficult for the Impact.

Vancouver looks to also be in a precarious position. The play in a stadium for which they do not receive all the revenues - no stadium naming rights, only a share or 0% of concessions, no parking revenues from surrounding parkades, no revenues derived from other events at the stadium. Actual crowds are several thousand less then reported as stated in a newspaper article using the Freedom of Information Act to gain info. They have basically maxed out their revenue and are at or near the bottom of the league already. If they are unable to finance their own stadium to improve their revenues in the future (5 - 7 years) they are also likely to relocate.

Major League Soccer's Most Valuable Teams 2018: Atlanta United Debuts On Top

Most teams are losing money and that doesn't appear to be changing any time soon. I guess teams will hope there is a big tv contract at the end of all this to ease the pain of what are likely cumulative losses of hundreds of millions from most of the teams over the past couple decades. Until then, they will have to rely on these expansion fees lessen the blow.

You missed the part about accounting losses and teams don't use expansion fees to survive this isn't NASL. Expansion fees are used in MLS just like they're used in NFL/NBA/MLB/ and NHL. MLS isn't in this precarious position of going belly up so it's the height of hyperbole to suggest teams are using expansion fees to survive all these years. Expansion fees are used to offset devaluation of each owners investment when each new team is added.


The league has already recovered from losing the hundreds of millions it lost in its first decade of existence. Teams that are showing "on paper" operating losses of 5-7mil isn't anything when you consider MLS owns SUM and profits off the soccer industry in the US in a way like lol Mob racketeering. They have their hands in 90% of any soccer operation operated in the US they get a cut. That means they don't have to put those profits on the books as they keep them separated from their financial MLS reports. Each new owner devalues that value slightly so hence the expansion fees it's kinda complicated unless you know how the league operates beyond just a surface level. Which explains why the MLS doom and gloom naysayers are wrong alot when they assess the league.

I've seen it talked about how some team owners even go as far to operate separately concessions and parking under different operated LLCs so that money doesn't get counted for team generated revenue and taxed differently; incentivized "accounting losses". If you listened to the podcast I linked you hear Grant Wahl mockingly say to commish Don Garber "Oh you gonna go and claim poor house on me now" I stand by what I said, the longevity and increased financial standing of MLS now as a top 10 revenue soccer league speaks to that.

Btw Vancouver is fine they just sold a kid for $20-25m.

 

[eddygee]

It's going to be a huge problem selling MLS as a top flight league when young stars continually get sold to foriegn clubs.


This is why this isn't some expotential trajectory.

This is true for every league minus the very top clubs in the world. In global soccer you gain clout by having those those type of players to sell. You work your way up the ladder. MLS has a advantage over those other selling leagues outside the top 5 they have the resources to draw players outside of their price range.

 

[eddygee]

It's going to be a huge problem selling MLS as a top flight league when young stars continually get sold to foriegn clubs.


This is why this isn't some expotential trajectory.

Delete duplicate post please

This is true for every league minus the very top clubs in the world. In global soccer you gain clout by having those those type of players to sell. You work your way up the ladder. MLS has a advantage over those other selling leagues outside the top 5 they have the resources to draw players outside of their price range.

 

[Bookie21]

MLS was ranked 19th best league in 2018/2019. I don't see them ever cracking top 10

Leagues Ranking - Football Leagues Global Rating

 

[eddygee]

MLS was ranked 19th best league in 2018/2019. I don't see them ever cracking top 10

Leagues Ranking - Football Leagues Global Rating

Lol kickgalore.com
There are cajillion rankings out there. I however was talking Top 10 revenue not some sites made up metric. But IMHO I have MLS at top 12-13 not 19. I wanted your personal opinion of having watched. Do you watch or you just follow top 2-3 leagues

 

[Hasbro]

^That's the US soccer team, not MLS.

A loss that bad is damning for all levels of the sport, not to mention a missing out on the World Cup hype.

You'd think a First World country with a population of 350M to draw on could accidentally produce a team that could rout a Caribbean country of a million.

I've followed this league since TFC entered in 2007. It has made massive strides in the 12 years since, you can't even overstate it. I think people who don't follow it still think it's minor league, and it absolutely still is compared to the top four Euro leagues - but the global soccer landscape is huge. MLS was David Beckham and 400 nobodies in 2007 practically. It routinely would be embarrassed in any comparison to another league regionally - on the pitch, on the pocket books and on any name recognition basis.

Today it boasts players and a tiny handful of teams where on paper if not yet on results, can hang with the best in the Mexican and Brazilian premier leagues, which in turn could probably be English Championship quality teams. There are more than several players in the league who'd be a legitimate part of the starting eleven on teams in leagues ranked way higher than MLS, and there has been two players who had played and developed in the league last season, and this season now playing in the Premier League & Bundesliga (Almiron & Davies).

The MLS is not a joke - what is is Landon's complete delusion that it would overtake the Big 4. It won't (in my lifetime anyway). What it really needs to do is cultivate more Atlanta Uniteds, Seattle Sounders and Toronto FCs (of two seasons ago, anyway), and less NE Revolution and Colorado Rapids - both on and off the pitch - to generate some more interest in its existing teams, rather than focus so much on getting new expansion teams (but, like the NHL... that expansion money is hard to resist).

Team names more creative the FC, might help too.

 

[Bookie21]

Lol kickgalore.com
There are cajillion ratings out there. I however was talking Top 10 I revenue not someone's made up metric. But I have then at top 12-13. I wanted your personal opinion of having watched. Do you watch or you just follow top 2-3 leagues

What do you have against Kick Algorithms? It is a very reputable site. The ratings are based solely on mathematical algorithms and do not contain subjective assessments by biased writers. I'm not an expert like you are, so I use a site like that to find worlds rankings. Not sure how you came up with your rankings. Do you watch the 100s of leagues to come up with a rating?

 

[eddygee]

What do you have against Kick Algorithms? It is a very reputable site. The ratings are based solely on mathematical algorithms and do not contain subjective assessments by biased writers. I'm not an expert like you are, so I use a site like that to find worlds rankings. Not sure how you came up with your rankings. Do you watch the 100s of leagues to come up with a rating?

Quick Google search of top rated soccer leagues on my phone. I come up with this on the first page.

Best Soccer Leagues in the World [2019 Edition]
#15 MLS
Ranking - Top 10 Best Football League In The World
#10 MLS
Point is it's all subjective you have to try and watch alot of leagues to know your stuff or even the slightest bit in which you talk. I watch as many as I can through out the year. Simply having a low opinion of the quality and finding something to support those claims means it's all subjective. Watching before you comment alot of leagues before delivering such a strong opinion would actually help before trying to assert definitives.

"Oh it's never gonna be top 10" then you find out there are already sites that list it top 10. Personally because I try to watch as much soccer as I can and have been that way since 2006 I don't rate MLS that high it's IMO still slightly below Liga MX at #12-13
despite having a 54% winning percentage against Liga MX in Champions League play since 2017.

 

[Albatros]

Any ranking having the Netherlands sixth is either an utter joke or obsolete by a few decades. Fifteenth would be an optimistic but still somehow defendable place for the MLS, higher than that definitely not. Making the top ten in the foreseeable future does not seem realistic because the gap in development is so enormous.

 

[eddygee]

Any ranking having the Netherlands sixth is either an utter joke or obsolete by a few decades. Fifteenth would be an optimistic but still somehow defendable place for the MLS, higher than that definitely not. Making the top ten in the foreseeable future does not seem realistic because the gap in development is so enormous.

Fair take but then you have to ask having watched or having some knowledge of the leagues beyond guessing assumptions what leagues would you place above MLS. I like the fact you obviously knew your leagues enough to know that the Erevidisie was no where near 6.

Far too often people thinking process is Europeans/South Americans Latinos love soccer their leagues oh their leagues have to be better than ours right. This isn't that simple those people would be surprised.

Alot goes into money the top revenue leagues tend to have the better talent. To your last part about talent development and league quality they aren't tied to each other but aren't mutually exclusive either. You can have a better league despite not developing the bulk of the leagues talent. You acquire that talent see EPL.

Often those rich youth development talent leagues are in poor countries and have to sell those players to have their teams stay afloat. MLS started off raiding Central Americans teams for talent they've since moved on to getting the top Mexican National team played and have also started the past 5 yrs grabbing some of the top South American talent that hasn't left for the top 5 Euro leagues yet.

 

[Bookie21]

Quick Google search of top rated soccer leagues on my phone. I come up with this on the first page.

Best Soccer Leagues in the World [2019 Edition]
#15 MLS
Ranking - Top 10 Best Football League In The World
#10 MLS
Point is it's all subjective you have to try and watch alot of leagues to know your stuff or even the slightest bit in which you talk. I watch as many as I can through out the year. Simply having a low opinion of the quality and finding something to support those claims means it's all subjective. Watching before you comment alot of leagues before delivering such a strong opinion would actually help before trying to assert definitives.

"Oh it's never gonna be top 10" then you find out there are already sites that list it top 10. Personally because I try to watch as much soccer as I can and have been that way since 2006 I don't rate MLS that high it's IMO still slightly below Liga MX at #12-13
despite having a 54% winning percentage against Liga MX in Champions League play since 2017.

Those links do nothing to support that the MLS is ranked any higher than 19th(I'm talking about actual quality of play)

You realize those links use a variety of different variables such as "excitement ", "attendance ", "star power ". What does that have to do with how good a team is? The point being the quality of play in MLS, makes it a minor league. The financial success of the MLS is definitely ranked higher than 19, but it should be, the US is an economic superpower compared to some of these 3rd world countries

 

[eddygee]

Those links do nothing to support that the MLS is ranked any higher than 19th(I'm talking about actual quality of play)

You realize those links use a variety of different variables such as "excitement ", "attendance ", "star power ". What does that have to do with how good a team is? The point being the quality of play in MLS, makes it a minor league. The financial success of the MLS is definitely ranked higher than 19, but it should be, the US is an economic superpower compared to some of these 3rd world countries

Oh I see it's "Minor" because you ruled it to be LMAO you don't have much of a analytical argument other than I don't like it don't watch much soccer so my uniformed opinion carries weight. Oh and here's this article from kick galore.com because I don't know enough to judge leagues because again I don't really know what I'm talking about as evident by your MLS commissioner says MLS is going to 40 team "claim" to try and prove a point, fricking rich.

I've stated Donovan is off his rocker. But I stand by my statement of MLS rapid rise continuing as it's done the last decade. People like you a decade ago was saying the league wouldn't get to where it is now then.
Gotta give credit where it's due sometimes even if you aren't a fan.

 

[Albatros]

Brazil and Argentina have so extremely strong domestic player development that the MLS can not really challenge them as long as it is not as desirable destination as the European top leagues are. This season alone Brazilian first league clubs have earned more than 200 million euros from player transfers which enables them to maintain a very high level broadly comparable to the second-tier European ones. If we take the market value estimates provided by Transfermarkt, the league ranking would look as follows (average squad value in million €):

414.09 ENG1
276.50 ESP1
238.67 GER1
233.38 ITA1
165.39 FRA1
58.16 POR1
56.98 RUS1
55.99 NED1
49.46 ENG2
47.93 BRA1
40.94 BEL1
39.93 MEX1
35.09 TUR1
33.32 CHN1
31.61 ARG1
28.64 SUI1
24.58 AUT1
23.56 UKR1
23.19 KSA1
22.37 GER2
21.96 MLS
19.45 GRE1
19.26 JPN1
18.76 SCO1
17.70 ITA2
15.58 ESP2
14.58 CRO1
13.64 CZE1
13.75 FRA2
13.40 COL1

Within the MLS Atlanta United is by far the most valuable at 59.25 million (would be 5th in Portugal), followed by Los Angeles FC at 33.65 million (7th in China) and Columbus Crew at 27.05 million (5th in Switzerland). The last would be Vancouver Whitecaps at 14.63 million (4th in Croatia).

 

[Bookie21]

Oh I see it's "Minor" because you ruled it to be LMAO

I didn't rule anything. I'm providing links to prove my point that MLS is minor league. All the experts say it's minor league, so I'll concur with them. I don't claim to be an expert on these things, that's why I'm using others to prove the claim of minor league status.

 

[Bookie21]

A regular season hockey game last night had a higher rating than the MLS cup final last year......that tells you all you need to know about this blowhard Donovan claim

 

[eddygee]

A regular season hockey game last night had a higher rating than the MLS cup final last year......that tells you all you need to know about this blowhard Donovan claim

I agreed about Donovan's claims being far off the reservation the first couple pages he was way off.

 

[eddygee]

I didn't rule anything. I'm providing links to prove my point that MLS is minor league. All the experts say it's minor league, so I'll concur with them. I don't claim to be an expert on these things, that's why I'm using others to prove the claim of minor league status.

But they're a mixed bag of resuts you can literally find one for one of each saying what ever you want them to be. In the world of soccer A top 15 league isn't minor.