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Sonic Disturbance
Grandmaster User
- Jan 1, 2009
- 2,315
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I think it comes down to three main things:
U-23 restrictions:
- Gaudreau is the big one here. He'd be one of the top forwards
- Eichel hasn't been good for NA, but you can't automatically assume he'd be just as bad on USA. It changes the whole dynamic
- Saad would've been a great option too. Big, fast, skilled.
- Even a guy like Seth Jones would be a better option than a guy like J. Johnson
Bad Roster Selections:
Backes, Abdelkader, Dubinsky? People are forgetting that Ryan ****ing Callahan was also selected but didn't play to injury. That's 1/3 of their forwards. J.Johnson was a VERY questionable decision as well. Niskanen to a certain extent as well. This isn't hindsight, people were up in arms over these selections from the start. Put guys like Kessel (I know he injured but he was not selected), Faulk, Shattenkirk, Johnson, Okposo and it's a whole different team.
Coaching:
This one is huge. It's not that Tortorella is a bad coach, but his preferred style of play absolutely stifled any offense the team had. I've never seen Patrick Kane so lost in these last two games. USA had pretty good success with run-and-gun style coaches with Ron Wilson and Dan Bylsma in 2010 and 2014.
USA was really impressive in 2010 and 2014, only losing to Team Canada (I'm excluding the 2014 Bronze Medal Game where they clearly didn't give a **** after being eliminated). Those games were close and competitive too. 3-2 (OT) and 1-0. The US looked like ******* against Canada and even team ****ing Europe this time around. Just embarrassing.
U-23 restrictions:
- Gaudreau is the big one here. He'd be one of the top forwards
- Eichel hasn't been good for NA, but you can't automatically assume he'd be just as bad on USA. It changes the whole dynamic
- Saad would've been a great option too. Big, fast, skilled.
- Even a guy like Seth Jones would be a better option than a guy like J. Johnson
Bad Roster Selections:
Backes, Abdelkader, Dubinsky? People are forgetting that Ryan ****ing Callahan was also selected but didn't play to injury. That's 1/3 of their forwards. J.Johnson was a VERY questionable decision as well. Niskanen to a certain extent as well. This isn't hindsight, people were up in arms over these selections from the start. Put guys like Kessel (I know he injured but he was not selected), Faulk, Shattenkirk, Johnson, Okposo and it's a whole different team.
Coaching:
This one is huge. It's not that Tortorella is a bad coach, but his preferred style of play absolutely stifled any offense the team had. I've never seen Patrick Kane so lost in these last two games. USA had pretty good success with run-and-gun style coaches with Ron Wilson and Dan Bylsma in 2010 and 2014.
USA was really impressive in 2010 and 2014, only losing to Team Canada (I'm excluding the 2014 Bronze Medal Game where they clearly didn't give a **** after being eliminated). Those games were close and competitive too. 3-2 (OT) and 1-0. The US looked like ******* against Canada and even team ****ing Europe this time around. Just embarrassing.
My bad. I was sure he didn't play. Anyway, I still stand by my belief that Matthews would not have been taken.
Fair enough but I don't think he would have made a difference. He's has not exactly been great with the U23's. I can think of 4 D-Men (3 Canadian and 1 American) who have played much better than Jones with the U23's.
Zen Arcade
Bigger than Kiss
Building for grit doesn't make sense with the way the tournament is structured.
You're not playing a best of 7 series and wearing the other team down.
You're not playing a best of 7 series and wearing the other team down.
I think the biggest thing here, is that they thought that Canada would wilt to grit, when it's arguable that Canada has equal grit without even trying to build the team that way.
Team USA has had success in WJHC because of team speed, IMO, not grit
Team USA has had success in WJHC because of team speed, IMO, not grit
hitmen19
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2013
- 823
- 1
Why wouldn't you stand by the opinion you wrote? Doesn't make it true. The fact is that everyone knew it was a disaster when it was announced. You say, others couldn't make a better team, but they couldn't get any worse. They got shutout by Team Europe and even though the score was flattering to the US, did anybody ever think they could win that game after 2-1. No
Its pretty easy to say where the team with the addition of Kessel, Johnson and Faulk could have been a drastically better team without Zack Johnson, dubinski, both who had to be benched against Canada, and lets say Backes.
Does anybody in the league ever trade Kessel, Johnson and Faulk for Johnson, dubinski and and Backes in a trade. Never, so lets not pretend they picked their best team possible. Whether they beat Canada is irrelevant. Its still a better team
Okay so he would not have had to carry this team like he didn't have to with the Pens...
So what's your point?
Kane is not a player capable of carrying a team?????? Others do the heavy lifting?? Have you watched a Blackhawks game in the last...7 years? This statement pretty much invalidates any opinion you may have.
Never mind the fact that you all you're really trying to say is that Canada is so much better than the USA it doesn't matter what they do.
Agree or disagree, whenever US Hockey has asked him to be "The Man", he has failed. Even Kane would agree with that.
I don't think so. You must be a US Hockey fan.
The point is, that is why US Hockey did not take him. They wanted players who could HOPEFULLY put the team on the back. They knew that wasn't Kessel.
mouser
Business of Hockey
So is your dislike of USA hockey about the team or the fans? Seems to be getting more blurred as the thread progresses.
Again, they tried something new in the hope of winning because they knew if they went with the same old, same old, they would not win. A lot of Hockey people (people who actually get paid for their opinion) liked the team. After the first exhibition game, a lot of people here liked the team. Now everyone is saying, "I knew better".
He is a PPG player in international play...?
In the last two Olympics, Kane has one less point than SIDNEY CROSBY, and has played in one less game....
Nobody is really "the man" in international play, because you're playing the best of the best of the best. It is very much about building the deepest team. Not a single player dominates the international stage.
Facts are intimidating, I know.
Even Kane has admitted he has not performed up to expectation. To his credit, he has said more was expected of him and he has not delivered at either Soshi or the WC.
He also has a habit of scoring a lot of points against weaker teams - a common theme with U.S. players. That messes with the averages.
FlyerFire
Registered User
- Feb 16, 2003
- 1,791
- 226
Of course he did. That's what all the best players say when they lose, or their team underperforms... in any sport. It means nothing. Nothing Kane says changes the fact that your "Kane can't carry a team or do the heavy lifting" is patently FALSE.
Everyone knows the U.S. runs up the score against the weak teams. "Oh look, we beat North Korea 10-1!" Then the geniuses as HF put them atop of the Power Rankings. Then they play a stronger team and all the point getters disappear.
Look at Soshi. No points against Canada and Finland, a million against the weak teams.
Look at Soshi. No points against Canada and Finland, a million against the weak teams.
So we will agree to disagree. Then, during the next Best on Best, Kane will do nothing against the better teams and we can have the discussion over again.
Wow, OP really likes to appeal to authority.
And is OP stating that Kane can't carry a team in general, or that Kane performs below expectations at the international level? If it's the former than ouch.
And is OP stating that Kane can't carry a team in general, or that Kane performs below expectations at the international level? If it's the former than ouch.
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